Author Topic: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!  (Read 6402 times)

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Offline Dumbgumby

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Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« on: June 26, 2006, 04:07:28 PM »
Rode my bike about 600 miles the past 2 weeks and had a tire pop going about 40.. Pretty scary. I was about to go to Dennis Kirk today to get some bridgestone s11s, then I came upon a post started by hondaman which confused me a little bit. Now I have no idea what tires to get. I can only spend about as much as the s11s cost. I really like to 'get on' my bike when I'm riding it alone but will also be touring with my significant other on the weekends. What scared me is that hondaman said something about not having certain tread patterns when riding 2 up. Sorry for asking such a stupid question but I have no idea what to do now, and if I want to make it to dennis kirk I have to leave within the hour. Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks.. Calvin
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Offline volz1fsu

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2006, 04:15:31 PM »
I've never noticed any difference in tread patterns, matching tread patterns front to rear, or anything doing with the tires that made a difference in handleing in any of my bikes; So I'll leave that one to the others to answer.   
I was just wondering how often motorcycle tires blow out.  How many here have had that happen to them?  I've not had a problem yet, but knock on wood. I've been frightened by the idea because I don't know how likely it happens, I hope never for me, I like to go fast to often.

Cowboy48

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2006, 04:37:50 PM »
After reading  a lot of info on this forum I decided to go with the s11's for my 750k5.  So far (about 250 miles) I really like them.  You may want to check out americanmototire.com for the price.  $131 including shipping is hard to beat.

Offline Noel

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2006, 04:45:01 PM »
Had a blowout about 7 years ago on my 750. Cheng Shin tires, but not their fault. An almost perfectly round plug was cut out of the tire. Dunno what I ran over, maybe a hole saw or something. Definitely not plugged tires, as I bought them new. Regardless, it wasn't too bad, even at 55 mph or so. Knew right away what had happened, and the bike wasn't doing anything especially unpleasant, so I just rolled off the gas and coasted to a stop.

As far as tread patterns, I'll admit to having used any old damn thing that I could find, back in the (much poorer) day. Rode my girlfriend all over on mix n' match tires without noticeable problem, at least not with the tires! :D

FWIW, I think guys like HondaMan know so much about these bikes and have so much experience with them that they may consider anything less than perfection to be inadequate. The rest of us are probably doing all sorts of things wrong but don't know that it doesn't work. Which reminds me: the next guy who tells me that open pipes and velocity stacks don't ever work is going to get yelled at! :)
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Offline andy750

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2006, 05:18:44 PM »
Ive had several blowouts on my front tire usuall at 70mph cruising down the highway and suddenly I feel a slight wobble or the handling gives a little indication (like turning corners the bike wants to go straight and not the usual smooth turn) -at this point stop as quickly as possible!!! Otherwise what happens is the front end (at these higher speeds) goes into a front end wobble and handling becomes treachorous as the bike wants to lay down....it can be controlled but its scary. I had 5 front tire punctures on my 16,000 trans-USA/Mexico trip so I know! Rear tire punctures are easier as the back slides around a little but nothing too bad. Had a front tire go coming off a twisty mountain section and screaming down the straight with 2-up - it was the girls first day on the bike! Scary but all ended well.

As for tire tread patterns Im with Noel - good tires are good tires and usually I do match Metzler with Metzler or Dunlop with Dunlop but unless you are touching pegs on the ground and doing a lot of wet weather riding I dont think youd notice much.

good lck,
cheers
Andy



Current bikes
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2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
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Offline Noel

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2006, 05:36:00 PM »
Remind me never to ride on Andy's bike. ;D
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Offline csendker

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2006, 06:43:39 PM »
I'm running S11's on my 550 and they seem pretty good.  Of course, I'm a noob with no prior experience to relate to.  ;)  They are technically a bit big for the 550, but not terribly so.  Probably not enough to affect handling, but just enough on the back to promote early wear. 
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Offline chippyfive50

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2006, 06:09:22 AM »
I've never noticed any difference in tread patterns, matching tread patterns front to rear, or anything doing with the tires that made a difference in handleing in any of my bikes; So I'll leave that one to the others to answer.   
I was just wondering how often motorcycle tires blow out.  How many here have had that happen to them?  I've not had a problem yet, but knock on wood. I've been frightened by the idea because I don't know how likely it happens, I hope never for me, I like to go fast to often.

stick with the same aspect ratio on both. I put a 90 on Front and a 70 on R and it DEFINATLEY gets a little sketchy in hard corners.
I am going back to the 90/90 setup
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Offline volz1fsu

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2006, 09:10:52 AM »
So basically keeping both tire sidewalls the same height will make it corner better?  I have been running the same size tires the bike came with but I would like to know what the conversion is to metric tires, I would like to go a bit wider on both front and especially rear.  I don't like the back tire breaking loose going from first to second when I am really getting on it, but then again I do.  That is probably why I souped it up in the first place. 

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2006, 09:43:21 AM »
Quote
I would like to know what the conversion is to metric tires


http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-tires/tire-data.htm
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eldar

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2006, 11:08:47 AM »
The s11s have worked good for me. I have had them for quite a while. Even had my bike in storage for about 4 years and they came out just fine and are still plyable. I do break the rear loose a bit around corners when hammering from first to second! I try not to do it too much though. Not sur ehow well they corner but I can do the interstate cloverleaf onramps around 45 and things seem tight. I need to replace my fork seals though and might need to adjust my back springs then I will go higher I am sure.

Offline MikeDeB

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2006, 11:41:19 AM »
I have the S11's on my K2 and they work just fine.  For a little more spirited riding you may consider the BT45's, also from Bridgestone.  The sizes I'm running on the K2 are 100/90-19 front and 110/90-18 rear.  MAW and Tires Unlimited have pretty good prices for Bridgestones.
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eldar

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2006, 11:45:45 AM »
I have 110/90 - 19 front and 130/90-17 on the rear on my k8.

Offline Dumbgumby

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2006, 06:54:31 PM »
Ok, thanks everybody for all your help. I decided to buy the s11's last night, I bought a 100/90 19 front and a 110/90 18 rear. Now all I have to do is pull off the old tires, and put the new ones on. I'm not quite sure how difficult it will be, maybe I should invest in a set of tire irons :P. Is the acetone rinse sufficient for new tires or should I do the sugar soap sand as well. Alright well thanks again for all the advice. P.S. Front tire blowout doing 70!!!! :o Jeez I thought i was lucky I survived my 40mph rear.  :o
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Offline MikeDeB

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2006, 11:26:45 AM »
Ok, thanks everybody for all your help. I decided to buy the s11's last night, I bought a 100/90 19 front and a 110/90 18 rear. Now all I have to do is pull off the old tires, and put the new ones on. I'm not quite sure how difficult it will be, maybe I should invest in a set of tire irons :P. Is the acetone rinse sufficient for new tires or should I do the sugar soap sand as well. Alright well thanks again for all the advice. P.S. Front tire blowout doing 70!!!! :o Jeez I thought i was lucky I survived my 40mph rear.  :o

Get a good set of tire irons; 3 preferably.  And get a set of rim protectors.  Use either windex or dish soap/water solution to spray on the beads when working the tire off and on the rim.  Make sure the beads are completely broke down before you begin.  Hope this helps.
Mike (Old SOHC/4 #2641)
Holt, MI
71 CB750K1
72 CB750K2
72 CB100K2
97 Ducati 900 SS/SP w/FCRs
98 Ducati 750 Monster w/FCRs
80 SR500

"Growing older is inevitable, growing up is an option."

Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2006, 11:56:20 AM »
I'm in the market as well - in fact this will be a purchase in the next couple of days if I can just get some things resolved in my mind...

I was under the impression from reading a bit that it is better to stick with the same width front and rear - i.e. if 100/90 in front then 100/90 in the back regardless of rim size...

no?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2006, 01:06:52 PM »
I'm in the market as well - in fact this will be a purchase in the next couple of days if I can just get some things resolved in my mind...

I was under the impression from reading a bit that it is better to stick with the same width front and rear - i.e. if 100/90 in front then 100/90 in the back regardless of rim size...

no?

Why would you think that?    Seems pretty clear that Honda thought a larger rear than front served the bike better and handles well for street use.  They choose tires to fit the rim width (or perhaps the other way around).

Stock size metric equivalents would be 82.5 (3.25) fronts and 101.6 (4.00) rear.  Thats about a 20mm differential.  I'd go with a 90 Front and 110 rear for near stock characteristics.  If your tire manufacturer says their tire is appropriate for your rim width, then go with an equivalent differential in a larger width tread of 100 F and 120 R.

Lets say you are heeled over in a high G turn.  On the edge, if the tires are at their traction limit/loading, wouldn't you want both tires to slide rather than just one of them?  (directional stability)  If your weight distribution front and rear were identical, same size tires front and rear would be okay, provided you didn't add power or braking while near the edge of traction.  However, I think the SOHC4's weight is biased toward the rear, plus you are likely to add power or engine braking. These factors would require a larger tire contact patch on the rear of the bike to maintain the same relative adhesion characteristics as the front.

This all assumes front and rear tires are of the same profile and rubber compound, and you have not changed the bike weight distribution with rider position (clubmans for example).

Another factor is tire diameter.  Smaller diameter tires have a smaller contact patch than equivalent width larger diameter tires.  Stock tires are 19 Front and 18 Rear.  The rear should be wider than the front for this reason, too.

Just rationalizing...

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline cbjunkie

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2006, 01:18:49 PM »
thanks for the penetrating analysis, TT - as usual you are exhaustive...I probably should have mentioned that the PO had installed a 16" rear - and that after some thought I've decided to stick with it.

I've pretty much settled on 404's and there is quite a range of widths - 90 up to 150 (rear) - so for a first time motorcycle tire buyer, far from your experience, I'm sure, the technicalities can sometimes be a little confusing.

Why would they even make a 90 rear if the rear should definitely be wider?
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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2006, 02:34:53 PM »
Quick tire question:

I am looking at BT45s and other tires and the narrow sizes are all in the "Front" category.  I'm looking at 90/90s and 100/90s.  Is it OK to put a "Front" tread on the rear, since all the "Rear" tires are minimum 120 or 130 width?

Also, would a set of K81s, BT45s or other blocked tire be OK for the front of a 750F or does it require a ribbed front because of "headshake" on deceleration that Hondaman talked about?  Or was the headshake a K issue?

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2006, 04:20:55 PM »
I don't know about using a truly "blocked" tread design up front, but a ribbed pattern isn't necessary either. I use to have ribbed Continentals on my 750 and never noticed any head shaking. I didn't go with them on replacement because of squirreliness on grooved pavement and steel gratings. Currently using D404's front and back and they have what I would guess is a more modern tread pattern, not blocked, not ribbed but curves designed for grip and water shedding I guess.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2006, 04:42:16 PM »
Quick tire question:

I am looking at BT45s and other tires and the narrow sizes are all in the "Front" category.  I'm looking at 90/90s and 100/90s.  Is it OK to put a "Front" tread on the rear, since all the "Rear" tires are minimum 120 or 130 width?

I gotta think that any company who I thought was competent enough to make tires I'd trust on my bike, would also be competent enough to label their tires correctly for intended use.  In this case, I'm thinking a front labeled tire should be fitted in the forward position on the bike and a rear labeled tire should be fitted to the rear position.  Sometimes engineers actually have a reason for designating use conditions.  This is not to say someone out there hasn't done it, and isn't dead yet. I have a cb550 that someone put a rear tire on the front.  It rolls, but that bike is the oddest Cb550 I've ever driven in the handling department.  It will get new, correct, shoes when placed into regular service, for sure.

In your case, I'm pretty sure Bridgstone makes tires the correct size for your bike, but in a different product line.  Seems clear to me that the product line you selected (for whatever reason) was never intended to go on the bike you have, if it is not offered in the size you require.

I had a funny thought.  Suppose you went to a shoe store for black running shoes.  But, the only black shoes available there were penny loafers.  Would you run the marathon in those 'cause that's what they had?  Or, will you go to another store?

Cheers,

And... best of luck!

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2006, 07:32:17 PM »
Quick tire question:

I am looking at BT45s and other tires and the narrow sizes are all in the "Front" category.  I'm looking at 90/90s and 100/90s.  Is it OK to put a "Front" tread on the rear, since all the "Rear" tires are minimum 120 or 130 width?

I gotta think that any company who I thought was competent enough to make tires I'd trust on my bike, would also be competent enough to label their tires correctly for intended use.  In this case, I'm thinking a front labeled tire should be fitted in the forward position on the bike and a rear labeled tire should be fitted to the rear position.  Sometimes engineers actually have a reason for designating use conditions.  This is not to say someone out there hasn't done it, and isn't dead yet. I have a cb550 that someone put a rear tire on the front.  It rolls, but that bike is the oddest Cb550 I've ever driven in the handling department.  It will get new, correct, shoes when placed into regular service, for sure.

In your case, I'm pretty sure Bridgstone makes tires the correct size for your bike, but in a different product line.  Seems clear to me that the product line you selected (for whatever reason) was never intended to go on the bike you have, if it is not offered in the size you require.

I had a funny thought.  Suppose you went to a shoe store for black running shoes.  But, the only black shoes available there were penny loafers.  Would you run the marathon in those 'cause that's what they had?  Or, will you go to another store?

Cheers,

And... best of luck!



Fair enough, putting the condescension aside.  ::)

Be that as it may, I am having a hell of a time finding a 3.5 inch rear tire and 100mm comes the closest, however, most vendors only carry tires that small in "front" tire types.  Very frustrating for bikes that do not have gumball tires as factory fitment.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2006, 12:45:08 AM »

Fair enough, putting the condescension aside.  ::)

Be that as it may, I am having a hell of a time finding a 3.5 inch rear tire and 100mm comes the closest, however, most vendors only carry tires that small in "front" tire types.  Very frustrating for bikes that do not have gumball tires as factory fitment.

Have you considered the Metzler ME77s?
3.50-18TL 56SFRONT ME77F
4.00-18TL 64H ME77 rear
http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/en_85/tires/template_categorie.jhtml;jsessionid=CY1PWJXKMTVRPFYKJOPCFEY?catid=7900006&productid=16140&product_list=catid%3D7900006%26productid%3D16140

Metzler does make a 90/90 18 rear.  But, I'd want an 80/90 18 front to go with it, which I don't find.

How about the Continental TK 22/44 combo
3.00 18 front
3.50 18 rear
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/motorcycle/themes/motorcycletires/classic/tk22_44/tk22_44_en.html
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Offline GroovieGhoulie

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2006, 04:26:40 AM »
Wow. I didn't know those tire lines were out there.  I will definitely look into those Contis.  Thank you.

I just hope I can get them in the US because I read in a thread here that Metzeler recently changed their product line and lots of the smaller tires are not available in the US anymore, but can still be gotten in Europe.  Those Continentals are from the German site.

I would never have thought of Continental.  I was trying for the BT45s, which have a good rep here or some K81s, which were all too big.

Offline chippyfive50

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Re: Please Help.. Going Crazy, TIRES!!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2006, 02:05:07 PM »
I'm in the market as well - in fact this will be a purchase in the next couple of days if I can just get some things resolved in my mind...

I was under the impression from reading a bit that it is better to stick with the same width front and rear - i.e. if 100/90 in front then 100/90 in the back regardless of rim size...

no?

Why would you think that?    Seems pretty clear that Honda thought a larger rear than front served the bike better and handles well for street use.  They choose tires to fit the rim width (or perhaps the other way around).

Stock size metric equivalents would be 82.5 (3.25) fronts and 101.6 (4.00) rear.  Thats about a 20mm differential.  I'd go with a 90 Front and 110 rear for near stock characteristics.  If your tire manufacturer says their tire is appropriate for your rim width, then go with an equivalent differential in a larger width tread of 100 F and 120 R.

Lets say you are heeled over in a high G turn.  On the edge, if the tires are at their traction limit/loading, wouldn't you want both tires to slide rather than just one of them?  (directional stability)  If your weight distribution front and rear were identical, same size tires front and rear would be okay, provided you didn't add power or braking while near the edge of traction.  However, I think the SOHC4's weight is biased toward the rear, plus you are likely to add power or engine braking. These factors would require a larger tire contact patch on the rear of the bike to maintain the same relative adhesion characteristics as the front.

This all assumes front and rear tires are of the same profile and rubber compound, and you have not changed the bike weight distribution with rider position (clubmans for example).

Another factor is tire diameter.  Smaller diameter tires have a smaller contact patch than equivalent width larger diameter tires.  Stock tires are 19 Front and 18 Rear.  The rear should be wider than the front for this reason, too.

Just rationalizing...



I have read / been told and now experienced,(the latter before the former)   that it is the ASPECT RATIO that is important, assuming you use the same model tire on front and rear
SOHC Member#4000
71' 500K0 #1021237--E1108327
78' 550
72' 750K2(sold to "Craig")
74' 750K4 #2306334--E2303422
73' CL175
http://gallery.sohc4.net/main.php?g2_itemId=14013