Author Topic: Washed the bike, now it won't start !? Update & questions ! (Read 43334 times)

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2012, 12:46:47 PM »

Check your ground wire from the battery( negative wire) Take it loose from the frame and clean with a brush!!! and reconnect. Your description of the problem NOW sounds like a loose/ dirty connection.
The Blue and Yellow wires will go up and under your tank to the coils, the coils will also have a wire that is BLACK with a WHITE stripe on it. The Black with white wire is the 12v power from the ignition( you will notice this wire connects to both coils) Check for power (12v) with the key on , you should have constant power in the Black/Wht .
Is this SPARK you talk about at the KILL switch or from a sparkplug stuck in one of the wires?

If the spark is at the KILL switch ,it has gone out( FAILED)on you and will need repaired or replaced.

Check this diagram and you can see that a black wire (12v power) and black with white stripe go to KILL switch.

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/cb750k1_wiring_diagram/cb750k1_wiring_diagram.html

If you splice in a wire from the 12v + on your battery to the BLACK/WHITE stripe wire at your coils you are bypassing the KILL switch and KEY switch. You will need to turn on key to have starter to work but once the bike starts the ONLY way to shut it off is pull the jump wire. DON'T leave the jump wire hooked up without the bike running, IT WILL BURN IGNITION!!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Scott S · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2012, 12:51:29 PM »

Quote from: Xnavylfr on November 14, 2012, 04:56:48 AM

That ignition module looks something like PAMCO PETEs setup.

http://www.cb750ignition.com/
Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

It's definitely NOT a Pamco. Not sure what it is, though.

scottly · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2012, 02:41:52 PM »

The part with the white and black wires is a pick-up coil. When the vanes rotate past it, it generates a pulse, which the module amplifies and sends to the coils. There MUST be some sort of module somewhere on the bike. This type of system will often generate a spark when the ignition is switched on; since yours does, it implies that the module is getting power, and is capable of powering the coils. Try measuring the resistance of the pick-up coil; the one in the attached pic is 480 ohms, as an example.

Viktor.J · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2012, 10:51:59 PM »

I´ve removed the tank and seat and coundl find any thing out of the ordinary :S But I will keep looking for this "module".... Ok, seems like its time to buy a multimeter

dave500 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 23, 2012, 02:12:12 AM »

it almost looks home grown from a mopar unit?

Viktor.J · « **Reply #30 on:** November 25, 2012, 12:34:34 PM »

When I first did some troubleshooting i removed the tank, I've after that recharged the battery so removed both battery and sidecovers, nothing out of the ordinary.

Quote from: Xnavylfr on November 22, 2012, 12:46:47 PM

Check your ground wire from the battery( negative wire) Take it loose from the frame and clean with a brush!!! and reconnect. Your description of the problem NOW sounds like a loose/ dirty connection.
The Blue and Yellow wires will go up and under your tank to the coils, the coils will also have a wire that is BLACK with a WHITE stripe on it. The Black with white wire is the 12v power from the ignition( you will notice this wire connects to both coils) Check for power (12v) with the key on , you should have constant power in the Black/Wht .
Is this SPARK you talk about at the KILL switch or from a sparkplug stuck in one of the wires? If the spark is at the KILL switch ,it has gone out( FAILED)on you and will need repaired or replaced.

Check this diagram and you can see that a black wire (12v power) and black with white stripe go to KILL switch.

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/cb750k1_wiring_diagram/cb750k1_wiring_diagram.html

If you splice in a wire from the 12v + on your battery to the BLACK/WHITE stripe wire at your coils you are bypassing the KILL switch and KEY switch. You will need to turn on key to have starter to work but once the bike starts the ONLY way to shut it off is pull the jump wire. DON'T leave the jump wire hooked up without the bike running, IT WILL BURN IGNITION!!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Thanks for your help !
I will check the ground, but can that really mess up after washing ? seems crazy, but worth checking.
When I check the power in the 12V cable (black with white stripe) do can I use a normal multimeter ?https://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&tok=iTLkg3xZIY56dpnFxFiMpw&cp=11&gs_id=13&xhr=t&q=multimeter&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=38897761&biw=1366&bih=624&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=MICyUI6KLej04QS474DoAQ
Do I need to "cut cables" or anything ? (stupid questions but I've never worked with electric "#$%*"

)

The spark is in the plug, no other place

but it also comes sparks (in the plug) when I move the "kill switch".

And to all of you, thanks for the help... You learn something everyday

scottly · « **Reply #31 on:** November 25, 2012, 06:41:44 PM »

At first glance, any of those meters should work. There is no need to spend a lot of money on a meter; buy the cheapest one that features a diode test (there will be a symbol on the dial that looks like -l<-).
Please post some pictures of the coils and the area behind the side-covers. There has to be some sort of module connected to the pick-up coil. Maybe one of us can spot it?
One thing that looks suspect to me is the single mounting post for the pick-up wires on the plate under the points cover. It appears the yellow wire is connected the white wire, isolated from the stud with plastic washers, then the blue to the black, also insulated with washers. There may be a bad connection at either of these joints that would render the pick-up inoperable.

lucky · « **Reply #32 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:27:44 AM »

You do not wash a motorcycle like you wash a car.
Matter of fact do not wash it unless absolutely necessary.

You can wash the wheels etc., but you cannot just hose down the carbs and expect
no trouble.

I once saw two women drive into a car wash where mexican workers washed
and cleaned cars in California, and the two women got off of their motorcycle
and had the workers wash their bike.

You guessed it, it would not start after they washed it. They were there for a long time.
Till the battery went dead from repeated attempts to start the bike.

Viktor.J · « **Reply #33 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:59:12 AM »

Quote from: lucky on November 27, 2012, 06:27:44 AM

You do not wash a motorcycle like you wash a car.
Matter of fact do not wash it unless absolutely necessary.

You can wash the wheels etc., but you cannot just hose down the carbs and expect
no trouble.

I once saw two women drive into a car wash where mexican workers washed
and cleaned cars in California, and the two women got off of their motorcycle
and had the workers wash their bike.

You guessed it, it would not start after they washed it. They were there for a long time.
Till the battery went dead from repeated attempts to start the bike.

I used normal pressured water hose, like a heavy rain. Any bike should take that. But thanks for the input..

Viktor.J · « **Reply #34 on:** November 27, 2012, 07:00:30 AM »

Quote from: scottly on November 25, 2012, 06:41:44 PM

At first glance, any of those meters should work. There is no need to spend a lot of money on a meter; buy the cheapest one that features a diode test (there will be a symbol on the dial that looks like -l<-).
Please post some pictures of the coils and the area behind the side-covers. There has to be some sort of module connected to the pick-up coil. Maybe one of us can spot it?
One thing that looks suspect to me is the single mounting post for the pick-up wires on the plate under the points cover. It appears the yellow wire is connected the white wire, isolated from the stud with plastic washers, then the blue to the black, also insulated with washers. There may be a bad connection at either of these joints that would render the pick-up inoperable.

Ill try to do some trouble shooting this Saturday and Sunday so ill provide some photos and info then... Really starting to get tired on this mess

Anyways, I have trouble understanding the wire-diagram.

I Look at it and yes.
1: I Turn the Key, that works. follows the black line to the battery.
2: I press the starter button, that works. Don't know what "starter solenoid" translates as, but the starter works (runs all the time while the starter is pushed) so i figure that works.
3: follows the starter solenoid's black cable but to where ? I can't see the connection between the coils and the starter button (even though I understands it in reality). But when troubleshooting ?

As I understood (roughly), the condensers gets current from the battery, loads up. It transfer to the coils that discharges every time the point contact.. Why this ONE spark but no more ?
It's the ignition that fails. everything else electric wise is in fully working condition. And as I mention, there's ONE spark every time I press the starter button.

IS there somewhere I can read about the "starting sequence" of my motor ?
3:

Viktor.J · « **Reply #35 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:22:24 AM »

Long time since I wrote here. But as earlier mentioned the bike is 200 km away from me so I've had problem with time, and I've also run parallel things with the bike so yeah, anyway....

The Bike still don't start, But I pulled the plugs and they looked like #$%*, not strange after all the times I've tried to start her. But the plug got sparks, however I can't tell if the spark is good enough ?
Here's a movie of the spark.

Gnista !

Her is pictures of the number 4 cylinder (farest to the right)

Here is a picture of the number 1 cylinder (farest to the left)

And also, Here's pictures of the "ignition" and batteri side.

This still doesn't answer why at first I didnt get any ignition. And I dont really understand why she wont start, there's spark.
whats left now ? tear out the carbs and clean ?

dave500 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:30:06 AM »

that yellowish looking multi pin plug above the rectifier looks like its been getting hot,best take it apart and clean it up,,go over any connectors you find.

74750k4 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:57:09 AM »

C'mon, just get a new plug, it's less than a fill up. That looks pretty bad. Then, since it is not starting, maybe it will, or if not, you can remove the plug again, and see if it smells like gas. If it does, I don't think anyone could answer as to why it's not starting.

Viktor.J · « **Reply #38 on:** February 03, 2013, 12:04:00 PM »

The plugs where new and driven for 60 km. please read the first post. And im going to, I cant understand why they look like do do and don't start.

I sort of already knew that I could change the plugs, but a thanks for clearing that out !

74750k4 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 03, 2013, 06:22:03 PM »

If you're fouling plugs, you might only get 1 KM on em' !
It doesn't take much to partially, or fully short a plug, and with that much carbon on it, all bets are off!

Vinhead1957 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 03, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »

I don't think any ignition parts are in that area unless an after market electronic kit. Does the bike have points?

74750k4 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM »

Doesn't appear to be points. Has a hall effect pick-up, and magnets on the shaft. If the clearance is too great to the pick-up...
no trigger, no spark. Check the clearance with the magnet aligned to the pick-up. Get it very close without touching. Else that ignition might be toast.

scottly · « **Reply #42 on:** February 03, 2013, 07:48:42 PM »

Quote from: rotortiller on February 03, 2013, 12:55:51 PM

That box under the rectifier with the fins looks like it may be part of the ignition as the stock rectifier and reg are still present.

1+ The aluminum finned box appears to be the ignition module I spoke of earlier.

Since you do have some spark, even with a carbon-fouled spark plug, you can rule the ignition out as your primary problem. Carbon can only form on the spark plug with an excessive amount of fuel, or a restricted air supply, AND a spark to start the fire.

Also, the timing plate is set to almost the fully retarded position. Retarded timing can cause starting problems. I would try to check the timing with a strobe while cranking the motor with the electric starter.

Viktor.J · « **Reply #43 on:** February 04, 2013, 02:54:16 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on February 03, 2013, 11:30:06 AM

that yellowish looking multi pin plug above the rectifier looks like its been getting hot,best take it apart and clean it up,,go over any connectors you find.

OK, I will check this out next time I Have a opportunity, Thanks Dave !

Quote from: rotortiller on February 03, 2013, 12:55:51 PM

That box under the rectifier with the fins looks like it may be part of the ignition as the stock rectifier and reg are still present.

OK, thanks. Maybe I'll try to take it off and clean up the contacts and do a "general" check ! Thanks !

Quote from: 74750k4 on February 03, 2013, 06:22:03 PM

If you're fouling plugs, you might only get 1 KM on em' !
It doesn't take much to partially, or fully short a plug, and with that much carbon on it, all bets are off!

Thanks, I think I have a new set of plugs, should try them. Ill also try to find some info on why this occur !

Quote from: 74750k4 on February 03, 2013, 07:01:02 PM

Doesn't appear to be points. Has a hall effect pick-up, and magnets on the shaft. If the clearance is too great to the pick-up...
no trigger, no spark. Check the clearance with the magnet aligned to the pick-up. Get it very close without touching. Else that ignition might be toast.

Thats right, no points. The bike ran great until I washed it, So the distance should't be the problem. It's wort checking though. As earlier mentioned, there's spark now. So the ignition should be "fine". still thinking of changing to a new one that I know works. Like dyna or similar.

Quote from: scottly on February 03, 2013, 07:48:42 PM

Quote from: rotortiller on February 03, 2013, 12:55:51 PM
That box under the rectifier with the fins looks like it may be part of the ignition as the stock rectifier and reg are still present.
1+ The aluminum finned box appears to be the ignition module I spoke of earlier.

Since you do have some spark, even with a carbon-fouled spark plug, you can rule the ignition out as your primary problem. Carbon can only form on the spark plug with an excessive amount of fuel, or a restricted air supply, AND a spark to start the fire.

Also, the timing plate is set to almost the fully retarded position. Retarded timing can cause starting problems. I would try to check the timing with a strobe while cranking the motor with the electric starter.

All of these causes seems plausible. But I cant understand how they occur after a wash

OK, thats a good point with the timing, Ive never seen this kind of ignition before so I can't really read if the ignition is retarded or not. But Ill try to find a strobe and try this out ! Thanks !

Viktor.J · « **Reply #44 on:** April 14, 2013, 04:31:46 AM »

Since my kills-witch behaved strange I took it some apart to have a look inside. And the cables and electronics looks quite "exposed".. I dont really want to change the cables since I honestly don't know how to do it. And by the info I've been reading about here on the forum, it's not that easy !

But this is what it looks like under my kill-switch housing.

IS there anything I can do do prevent water to affect the kill switch ? electric tape ? shrinking-tube ?
Im also going to go around the bike, and check all conectors and connections to make sure they at least "look" OK and I've bought gaskets for the points cover.

K3Owner · « **Reply #45 on:** April 14, 2013, 05:32:26 AM »

Following this and can't get past that handlebar switch. It is the primary route to the coils. If it were up to me, I would get a length of wire and would bypass that switch by routing the battery + directly to the coils, tank off of course, and then quickly attempt a start. Don't keep the wire there a it will heat the coils - just for test. You likely have a multimeter by now and could have checked that the voltage to the coils was constant at around 10V or more while cranking on a good battery making the bypass unnecessary. Good spark then points to the handelbar switch. You have other problems considering that wet plug and corroded connectors but I would get a consistent spark from the coils before looking elsewhere. "Gentle rain" washing should not have penetrated the ignition trigger area. Would like to be there to help

but it's a long flight from Georgia USA.

lucky · « **Reply #46 on:** April 14, 2013, 05:37:26 AM »

What kind of "shampoo" did you use? LOL..lol

Schnell · « **Reply #47 on:** April 14, 2013, 07:56:46 AM »

Is page 2 of this thread messed up on anyone else's computer screen?

strynboen · « **Reply #48 on:** April 14, 2013, 10:20:29 AM »

have you power on the coils..try to see at you have ca 12 volt at that black vire /(vhite) on coils..not the yellow or blue from ignision,,that go to frame when the modul trigges rest of time it have no konneksion
try to see thanges in the volt..vhen move the stop contakt...it have to give full volt in mittel posision..

think also that that pick up are to far avay from that impuls rotor thing,,try to mowe it closer to rotor..its spring in scandinavia..so hope you get it running soon

Viktor.J · « **Reply #49 on:** April 14, 2013, 10:40:33 AM »

OK, I belive I have to clearify

The bike starts, it doesn't start as easy as beafore. but that is most likely due to the fouled plugs (will change) that occured when "something" was wet and I kept trying to start it over and over again.

The question now is how do i prevent it? what should I do to make sure I can wash the bike normaly or ride it in rain

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Author Topic: Washed the bike, now it won't start !? Update & questions ! (Read 43334 times)