Author Topic: CB550 clutch not disengaging all the way (Read 11165 times)

boogiedude · « **on:** November 25, 2012, 05:08:33 PM »

First time actually having to post after hours of searching...

I've got a '76 550F, and yesterday afternoon I developed an issue where I couldn't shift up out of first when at a stop, with the bike running. At the same time I noticed that I seemed to have excessive play in the clutch lever, so after I got home from running my errands I decided to adjust the clutch. I've got the dots lined up on the case, as per the manual, and now I've developed a new issue! The clutch isn't disengaging completely!

I've taken the adjustment at the bottom of the cable back and forth and all over the place, but I can't seem to get things working properly now. With the bike off, in gear, clutch pulled in, I can't walk the bike back and forth easily. Bike on, in gear, clutch in, it creeps forward pretty strongly and will die almost immediately. It seems I need more disengagement on the clutch? Not sure how to attain it though

Is it possible I'm having an internal issue? Something came loose/failed in the basket? I haven't pulled the cover off yet because I don't have a replacement gasket handy in case I screw up the one currently on there.

boogiedude · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2012, 08:21:22 AM »

Bump, anyone?

Bankerdanny · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2012, 08:32:00 AM »

There are a number of possible issues including worn and/or sticking plates. Is the clutch gasket paper or an o-ring? If it's paper then you can easily make your own with gasket material from any auto parts store, or my old standby, cardboard from a package of sand paper.

I would worry less about lining up the dots than about actually getting the clutch to work. It could be that the cable has stretched to the point that a perfect adjustment isn't possible. However, for now I would continue to reduce the slack until the clutch disengages enough for you to shift into gear at a stop.

dave500 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2012, 11:37:45 AM »

dont worry about the dots,slacken the cable at both ends and holding the case lever upwards wind the case adjusting screw all the way in,then wind it out about two turns,lock it then re adjust the cable,if its still not releasing you need new plates.

boogiedude · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:54:26 PM »

Thanks for the replies,

@bankerdanny, I'm not sure what the gasket material is, I'm gonna assume its paper or cork so I could definitely cut a new one if I needed to. Hadn't even thought of that.

@dave, I'll give that a shot when I get home today from work. I've had the bike for about 3000 miles now, and the clutch has been great until now. Only 21k miles on the whole thing. Is it likely the plates are going to be worn out at this relatively low milage?

RFogelsong · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »

At 21k miles the original (if they're original) plates are *probably* warped (there's an article on this subject somewhere on here), but don't think that means "you absolutely need new plates".

I had a bit of a similar problem with my '75 k a while back after I broke the clutch cable (age). I put the new one on and played hell with all the adjustments. It doesn't sound like you've tried the screw in the side of the clutch cover case yet, that might help, so read the manual adjustment procedure on that and maybe play around a bit there if you haven't already. Can you adjust it so that when your hand is off the clutch, in gear, under full or part throttle the clutch slips? You're at one extreme now, and I'm wondering if you can get to the other, if not maybe something moved...

If worse comes to worse, I'd pull the cover (apparently you can do this without getting oil all over everything by leaning the bike waaaay over to the other side while the cover's off), pull the basket, scuff/deglaze the disks (replace if necessary, you're already here, so if you have the money, why not) soak them and put them back. After this I adjusted to factory specs (lining up dots etc.) and it was 90% of the way there, a little adjustment on the lever at the bar and it was all back in business. If you do end up doing this, it's a great time to swap out those pesky Phillips for hex bolts.

For me I think it was a new oil (didn't have moly but idk, crazy) I was using combined with adjusting for a clutch cable that was a little bit different length.

Hope some of that helped.

Stev-o · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:09:56 PM »

+1 stretched cable. Only $20, if not new, replace it.

boogiedude · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:20:04 PM »

Well, I gave it about another hour of fooling with the adjustment and still no luck with getting it to disengage completely. Going to either extreme of the adjustment screw on the case yields the same result, so the cover is going to be coming off, which means exhaust has to come off too....

At this point I'm going to just plan on doing a full clutch overhaul, since I'm in there and I don't want to have to go back again anytime soon. Which leads me to my next question, What should I count on replacing? Looking at the diagram on bikebandit, it appears there are 7 friction plates and 6 steel plates. Should I plan on replacing all of them? Or only the friction plates? What about springs? And what's the quality like with the aftermarket? I see EBC/Barnett plates/springs, any better than OEM?

@steve-o, I'm 90% sure the PO changed the clutch cable when he did the cafe conversion and changed the clutch lever. It looks different than the OEM ones I've seen, so it would theoretically only have a few thousand miles on it. I can adjust the cable and get it a very very tight/stiff lever action. Wouldn't a stretched cable make it so I couldn't adjust the slack out? I'm still new to bike mechanics, so feel free to educate me

RFogelsong · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:49:45 AM »

I'd suggest all the plates and springs be replaced. Why does the exhaust have to come off? I was gonna use stock plates and ebc springs when I did mine but found that everything still had some life left in it and left it alone.

boogiedude · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2012, 08:24:32 AM »

On the F, the 4-1 comes right across the bottom of the clutch cover. 2-3 screws are somewhat hidden behind it. I might be able to get at the screws with a long screw driver, but seeing as all the other screws in the case have needed an impact, I dont think I'll be able to get them out

boogiedude · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2012, 10:43:45 AM »

Quote from: RFogelsong on November 27, 2012, 06:49:45 AM

I'd suggest all the plates and springs be replaced. Why does the exhaust have to come off? I was gonna use stock plates and ebc springs when I did mine but found that everything still had some life left in it and left it alone.

So the steel plates as well?

RFogelsong · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2012, 01:38:46 PM »

I think these (steel plates) are what warp due to heat (someone more experienced than me will have to comment), or at least that's what I seem to remember from the article I keep mentioning (I'll try to dig it up). So yes, I'd replace them too. Otherwise, my reasoning would be "why not? you're already there".

Killer Canary · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:52:44 PM »

For the lower clutch cover screws yo can weld a cut-off phillips driver to spare impact bit to get the reach you need. Then, by all means, replace with allen head bolts.

TravisB · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2012, 08:55:27 PM »

I had the same problem so I replaced my plates and readjusted. Kept getting locked in first or neutral. In replaced my cable and it works shifts like a dove.

boogiedude · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2012, 07:31:02 PM »

Woah woah woah. Hold the presses. Am i missing the double steel plate? this doesn't look right...

my plates don't look like the ones in this picture:

dave500 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2012, 12:02:56 AM »

yours is an early clutch,,that twin steel disc was a later update,your engine number might be around 1117000?

TravisB · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2012, 08:21:02 AM »

My '75 CB550F SS didn't have double steel plates when I opened it and looks the same as yours.

boogiedude · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2012, 02:42:29 PM »

Well, that's a relief and solved a whole lot of puzzlement. Hopefully the new plates should be here tomorrow and I can get this thing back on the road.

boogiedude · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2012, 11:44:25 PM »

Approaching wits end here $:-\$

Got the new plates in. Both steel and fiber OEM from the dealer, soaked in 10-40 honda oil just like I run in the bike, new cable, installed everything, and it's made no difference.

To recap my adjustment procedure. I have the screw on the side of the case turned almost completely to the left in order to get the dots to line up on the actuator arm. I then adjusted the bottom end of the cable to get it so that the clutch hand lever had a very small amount of play. Didn't have a need to adjust at the top side. Bike in gear, clutch in, bike off, push forward and it initially jerks to a halt as if it was rolling in the slack that is there when you're still in gear. Roll back and push forward harder and it will eventually roll through it, but it is resisting me a lot. I can then kinda sorta walk the bike around but as soon as i let go of the clutch and reapply it, i'm back at square one.

Wtf do I do now? I've noticed that the cable end only moves ~2" from the full release of the hand lever to it being pulled all the way against the grip. Is that enough movement? I'm losing my mind!

thedrewski86 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2012, 06:01:23 AM »

This may be super obvious but do you have the spring over the top of the actuator arm in the case? If the spring is under the arm or the cam on the clutch shaft is above the actuator your clutch won't do anything. How does the lever feel? Too easy or too hard? One more thought, be sure to hold the pushrod in the center of the clutch as you put the cover on. A lot of folks hold it in place with grease.

boogiedude · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2012, 08:58:46 AM »

The spring and cam are definitely installed properly. When I pulled it apart I was really hoping I was going to find one of those off and it would be an easy, obvious fix. Holding the pushrod is something I was not aware of. I just had.it sitting in place when the cover went on. What kind of grease is safe? I have a tub of wheel bearing grease sitting over here. Is that kosher?

thedrewski86 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2012, 09:07:03 AM »

Yeah that's fine.
Sounds like you did it right, I bet that's not your problem. One of the guys on here went through the adjustment process pretty succinctly one time: bottom out your adjusting screws at both ends of the cable, get your dots lined up (or not!), adjust the end of the cable at the engine, then adjust the clutch lever. Rule I always heard was you should have a nickel's worth of play in the lever. This worked great for me, my bike was doing the same thing a few weeks ago and it's fine now.

boogiedude · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2012, 10:39:55 AM »

Well, I pulled the cover back off, packed the hole for the pushrod to keep it standing up straight, and reinstalled. Same results.

Something just doesn't seem right in the mechanism No matter what end of the spectrum I'm at with the bottom adjuster(closer to max in or max out) I get the same results. There's gotta be something I'm overlooking?

thedrewski86 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2012, 11:44:07 AM »

Yeah, something is definitely amiss. Your clutch basket looked good, I'm sure the springs and retainer went on right. The actuator arm should be good. I would think you should replace your clutch cable regardless. There is a chance it is just stretched out.

boogiedude · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2012, 12:00:19 PM »

Clutch cable is brand new, along with the steel and fiber plates. Is there a possible way for he springs and retainer to be put on wrong?

News:

Author Topic: CB550 clutch not disengaging all the way (Read 11165 times)