Author Topic: K4 Engine Compression Issues  (Read 7008 times)

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Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2012, 09:11:23 PM »
Do search and you find solutions on this forum and elsewhere. I would recommend skipping the screw extractors in to hard studs and have a machinist mill it out. More expensive, but it will be done right without having to repair, helicoil etc your crankcase.

Yup. I meet the machinist Monday morning.

Just took a look at your K4 cafe build. Nice stuff!
Ujeni Motors
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Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
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Offline cbr954

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2012, 03:39:40 PM »
I have welded a nut to the broken stud before.  The heat helps break the stud loose and gives you something to get ahold of to turn it out.  I have removed several this way.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2012, 05:07:46 PM »
Oh boy...disaster.....

After 24 hours of pb blaster stuff on the cylinder studs, 13 of them came out easily. The next two came out with a bit of heat and some more strength. The last was very stubborn. I let it sit pb blaster for another night. This morning, I hit the engine block around the stud with heat, gave it another go with the stud extractor and bang....it snapped off at the base!

 :-[

I drilled into the center of the stud, but have not gone any further (didn't drill all the way through the tip of the stud I mean). At this point, there is no damage to the engine block, so I thought this would be a good time to figure out what to do next.

Options as I see them:
  • Use a screw extractor. I've had bad luck with these. With all the pressure that this stud withstood, how could a small screw extractor work?
  • Drill out the screw entirely and (likely) helicoil the hole. Can you heli coil a cylinder stud? I'm betting the answer is no.
  • Bring the engine block to a machinist to have it professionally removed.

I'm thinking that last option is the best. Thoughts?

Not as serious as it seems: on the flush-broken ones, drill thru the stud so the penetrant can work from both ends. The bottom end is usually stuck because it never had lube inside, corroded a bit. Even if you have to drill to the threads to remove these, they are easily Helicoiled later: I have done many.

A comfortable 'tip': hi-perf kits used to have mention of drilling these stud holes to a larger size, then Helicoiling to fit larger studs (custom, not available off-the-shelf) for use with turbo and real high-HP engines. Plenty of options available!

If you have stubs, have your welder ground TO THE STUD and weld a nut on the end. The heat expansion and galvanizing action of the current will break up the corrosion and they will come out much easier.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2012, 10:38:19 AM »
Just dropped off the cylinders, head and engine case with the machinist. Will have the headgasket surfaces flattened and the broken stud removed. This machinist is a vintage motorbike guy himself; still races his 68 CV dirtbike when he isn't working on it! Cool!

Should have everything back by Thursday.

As always thanks for everyone's advice.

And happy new year!!!
Ujeni Motors
Sandcast #410
Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.

Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 03:54:50 PM »
Machinist is done. He was able to get the broken stud out after several attempts welding a nut on the end. I'll be buying a welder for my next project...so hopefully I'll be able to solve this myself next time.

He says he took about 4 thousandths of an inch of the cylinder/head gasket surfaces to get the perfectly flat. He thinks I should see much better sealing as a result. I pick up the parts later tonight. I'll post a pic.

Hoping to have the engine completed this weekend if all of the parts arrive on time!
Ujeni Motors
Sandcast #410
Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.

Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2013, 09:01:54 AM »
Reassembly starts today. Notice something strange though. I am not sure I have parts 2 and 3 on this schematic....can anyone tell me what they are and where they are supposed to go?



I noticed that these parts are not on the K1 schematic. Since some parts of my engine appear to be earlier than a K4 I wonder if I am not supposed to have parts 2 and 3 on mine?
Ujeni Motors
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Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2013, 09:46:58 AM »
3 is a hollow dowel to support 2 which is sort of a funny elongated o-ring.  These parts were added by Honda later than k1(sorry I can't remember when)in an effort to help with leaking head gaskets.  If your cylinders do not have the enlarged holes to accomodate these parts, you do not use them.  Also, some have reported successfully omitting them even on later motors that do have the enlarged holes.   Do you think your motor has been apart before and a previous owner omitted them?  Wish I had more hard data for you, such as dimensions of the enlarged hole etc.  There are several threads on this, maybe even something in the FAQ or Tips and Tricks section.  Probably someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.
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Offline swan

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2013, 11:06:41 AM »
They may still be in your cylinder head.
1975 CB400 F cafes, 1974 CB750 K4 Cafe, 1966/1976 Triumph/ Norton Triton Cafe and 1962 DBD34 BSA Gold Star Clubman.

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Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2013, 12:58:02 PM »
Not in the head or the cylinders. In fact, I forgot that I had ordered a set a few monts ago. I just tried them and they will not fit in the holes. Too big.

I'm assuming that means I have an older cylinder than the rest of the (1974) bike. No biggie.
Ujeni Motors
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Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.

Offline MCRider

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2013, 04:29:41 PM »
Not in the head or the cylinders. In fact, I forgot that I had ordered a set a few monts ago. I just tried them and they will not fit in the holes. Too big.

I'm assuming that means I have an older cylinder than the rest of the (1974) bike. No biggie.
Seanbarney has it covered.
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Offline Ujeni

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2013, 06:04:16 PM »
Got the engine buttoned up with:

  • Honed cylinders
  • Machined gasket surfaces
  • CycleX head gasket
  • Heavy duty studs torqued to 22 ft lbs.





Then got the bike back together. Immediately noticed that the engine felt better; more power and smoother. No leaks either  :)

Here it is on the road a few days ago:






Loving this bike!

Just did a compression test on the weakest cylinder (4). This one registered at 95lbs at the beginning of this thread. Now, its....drum roll......

160lbs!!

 ;D

Thanks to everyone for their help! Hope to see you on the road sometime!
Ujeni Motors
Sandcast #410
Sandcast #538 Watch the restoration!
Sandcast #6592 All original daily driver.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2013, 09:35:52 PM »
Sweeeet! Nice work, and beautiful bike!  :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline swan

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Re: K4 Engine Compression Issues
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2013, 10:54:07 PM »
Thank you for bringing sexy back... Nice work, looks great and it must ride beautifully-enjoy!
1975 CB400 F cafes, 1974 CB750 K4 Cafe, 1966/1976 Triumph/ Norton Triton Cafe and 1962 DBD34 BSA Gold Star Clubman.

CB750 build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52551.0