Author Topic: Road racing question (very basic) (Read 8491 times)

Stev-o · « **Reply #25 on:** April 04, 2013, 03:56:00 PM »

Nice! So will this be a track bike or "dual purpose"? (street and track)

Roach Carver · « **Reply #26 on:** April 04, 2013, 04:21:11 PM »

I am not planning to bother with lights and what not so I guess track only.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2013, 08:18:04 AM »

I found this quote over there and thought it was amusing.

"Going to Daytona without some prior experience and a thoroughly sorted machine is not a good idea. The big oval takes what it wants and spits out the pieces when small mistakes are made."

NitroHunter · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2013, 12:02:52 PM »

I'd HIGHLY recommend reading Keith Code's 'A twist of the wrist' before pursuing a novice plate - or even driving to the track.
I'll go one step further, I feel it should be mandatory reading for every street rider too.
No matter what you think you know, you will learn some VERY good things here.

http://www.atwistofthewrist.com/

pickle fart · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:18:40 AM »

I road raced for thirty years or more, raced WERA (the greatest bunch of racers ever), AMA CCS, AMA BOTT, and some other AMA stuff – but not AHRMA. I have nothing good to say about AHRMA.

I tried racing a CB750 in 1976, but was not competitive no matter what I did to the bike. The trick back then was to buy a Yamaha RD for $150, put some good tires and shocks on it and go racing. I can’t remember any SOHC Hondas doing very well, although some of the twins did better later in vintage racing. The DOHC Hondas did well with guys like Freddie Spencer riding them, and even the Honda Interceptors did well once Honda starting paying win money. I road raced a Honda XR500 years ago, did o.k. with it and had a lot of fun. It was actually my ice racer with some sticky road tires on it and a front brake; fast, light, and indestructible.

Some of the Honda twins are very competitive in vintage racing today. That’s what I’d be looking at if I wanted to vintage race again, or just do track days - a Honda twin.

I still like to get to the track once in a while for track days with Sport Bike Track Time and the Ducati Owners of Canada. Check them out, both are excellent. Sport Bike TT probably does track days near you. For information, besides WERA vintage, check out Vintage Road Racing Association of Canada. The VRRA site has a lot of good and interesting info, good guys there too. Probably the best help is to hook up with some other guys that are doing track days or vintage racing

Roach Carver · « **Reply #30 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:25:00 AM »

Thanks for the info Mr. Fart. AHRMA seems to have the most venues near me but I definately will look thise other organizations up.

scottly · « **Reply #31 on:** April 07, 2013, 06:42:12 PM »

Quote from: pickle fart on April 07, 2013, 11:18:40 AM

I road raced a Honda XR500 years ago, did o.k. with it and had a lot of fun. It was actually my ice racer with some sticky road tires on it and a front brake; fast, light, and indestructible.

Some of the Honda twins are very competitive in vintage racing today. That’s what I’d be looking at if I wanted to vintage race again, or just do track days - a Honda twin.

Just curious; why would you prefer a twin over a thumper?

pickle fart · « **Reply #32 on:** April 07, 2013, 08:28:03 PM »

Regarding my Honda twin comment, I was giving my opinion of the question of racing a CB750 or CB350. I really like the smaller Honda twins and think you could make a fun track bike with not a lot of money or effort. You’d need good tires, and that does not mean huge fat tires, and good shocks, and set up the front end too. Handling is the secret, not horsepower. And get rid of the excess garbage. See photo from the net of a really nice Honda twin built by some school kids.

Regarding ‘thumpers’, I do like them too. Besides the XR500, which is actually about 600cc, I also have a Harley Davidson ERS (Aermacchi 350), a Norton Manx 500, and a couple of for dirt only Honda XR’s.

pickle fart · « **Reply #33 on:** April 28, 2013, 12:59:05 PM »

You want a good idea of what vintage roadracing is about, check out this video, especially the beginning where you can see some neat bikes. The guy’s riding a Norton but towards the end he gets passed by a really nice CR750. The racing is VRRA at Mosport in Canada, my all time favorite track.

Vintage Racer at Mosport -750 Norton

Stev-o · « **Reply #34 on:** April 28, 2013, 01:47:40 PM »

Cool, "our own" BWaller is in that video.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #35 on:** April 28, 2013, 02:36:40 PM »

How does that drum brake equipped 350 compare to disc brakes?

Very cool video.

Big Bob · « **Reply #36 on:** May 02, 2013, 12:30:18 PM »

Quote from: pickle fart on April 07, 2013, 11:18:40 AM

I have nothing good to say about AHRMA.

I've found that if you ignore the BS politics and focus on having fun with the folks in the pits AHRMA is a great time. Lots of good people at the AHRMA roadraces.

Big Bob · « **Reply #37 on:** May 02, 2013, 12:42:02 PM »

Which bike?

Small, lightweight? Yeah, there are plusses to going that way. Lots of them.

But to me a CB750 is a small bike. Pretty much as small as anything I can imagine racing. More than one accomplished racer has told me "You really should be on something bigger." But the CB750 is the bike I like so there you go.

I think the biggest consideration should be picking a bike that you know how to maintain, fix, tune, etc. The worst, worst, worst thing that can happen to you at the track is something breaking. Prep time before putting the bike in/on your hauler is essential. Prep is easier if you're working on a machine that you're very familiar with. And track side repairs are easier if you know exactly what needs to be done.

If I'm doing it right the only time I need to open my tool box is for a tire pressure gauge or a bottle opener. That's exactly how most of my weekends go. Although my tool box does get opened a lot for other people who need to borrow #$%* they didn't bring.

Last year though - man, what a train wreck. Busted a shift linkage at Road America. Fried a clutch at Gingerman. Broke 5 spokes in my rear wheel at Barber. Ugh. Bad year.

Also, I've comes to grips with the fact that I really suck at racing motorcycles. I'm pretty bright, only took me 7 years to figure that out. So this year I'm skipping racing and going to school a lot. That's really important. Books are great, track time is great, but the best money you can spend (after quality gear and a bike that works right first time every time) is on schools. There's nothing better than riding around with a pro following you, taking notes on what you're doing, and giving you pointers in between sessions.

I did the Cornerspin school two months ago. Money well spent.
http://www.cornerspin.com/main.html

Roach Carver · « **Reply #38 on:** May 02, 2013, 02:25:49 PM »

Thanks !. I have a pretty good supply of cb750 stuff but it seems that I am pretty isolated here for organized racing. Since I decided to go down this road I have stocked up on cb350 parts as well so thats not such a huge concern. I am still trying to find time to get to work building a bike for this. Thanks for the input!!

Tintop · « **Reply #39 on:** May 02, 2013, 02:53:59 PM »

Quote from: Stev-o on April 28, 2013, 01:47:40 PM

Cool, "our own" BWaller is in that video.

#617 @ 39sec is also ''one of our own', hrcscott.

Best thing about Mosport this year is that they have removed the concrete in the corners, YEAH!! Should be alot easier on the shoulders with the sidecar. There's a really nice RD400 for sale right now on the VRRA forum.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #40 on:** January 17, 2014, 01:36:30 PM »

I have progressed very little but I have acquired a few more bikes for parts and had a question. I have two tube frame sl's and a few cb/cl frames. The sl looks like a much better choice and the sl motor has a closer gear ratio trans (I think). should I use the sl frame and bottom end and use the head off of a cl/cb.?

bwaller · « **Reply #41 on:** January 17, 2014, 03:56:21 PM »

www.eurospares.com/350faq.htm You've probably read this. Sorry I can't remember the differences in gearbox ratios, can you post them?

Edit, the only difference I see from my old parts book is that the SL 3rd gear mainshaft is 25T, the CB is 26T. 3rd gear countershaft SL-32T, CB-33T. Unless my info is bad that's only a 1% difference in the 3rd gear ratio, otherwise overall ratios for both gearboxes are the same. If that's the case either bottom end should work fine.

I recall the twin front downtubes on the SL were small diametre but that shouldn't matter, maybe the SL frame will be lighter. Try to find out what the rake figure is for the two frames before you decide.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #42 on:** January 17, 2014, 04:51:13 PM »

Thanks for doing that research for me. I swear I looked for it.

bwaller · « **Reply #43 on:** January 17, 2014, 08:53:21 PM »

It seems the primary drive ratio is the same between the models too.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #44 on:** January 18, 2014, 06:23:55 AM »

Interesting. With the sl, being Hondas "dirt bike", I thought that the gear box would surely be significantly different than the cl or cb.

Stev-o · « **Reply #45 on:** January 18, 2014, 06:37:00 AM »

What mods to the frame do you have planned?

bwaller · « **Reply #46 on:** January 18, 2014, 07:06:47 AM »

They just made changes to final gearing to slow them down some. They were lead sleds in the dirt, more suited for trail riding. It'll be interesting to see if Honda changed the castor angle on the SL.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #47 on:** January 18, 2014, 07:09:41 AM »

Well I detabbed a cl frame and was going to do some seam welding and plating/bracing but I want to enter the "beginner " class and I don't think you are allowed to do much to the frame. I think you can detab it but I don't think you can brace it. That is why I was thinking about the sl. Looks like a better choice. I am going back and forth on what to do. I am really leaning toward stripping a cl down and working the suspension a bit and get it mechanically sound and prep it for tech. Then go try it out. I am sending a head off to the great Mike for some flow work so Im on my way to a built motor.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #48 on:** January 18, 2014, 07:10:56 AM »

Brent, I will see if I am smart enough to figure it out. I am curios as well. I do know the swing arm is longeron the sl.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #49 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:37:12 PM »

Not a lot if progress but progress none the less. 550 trees tapered bearings sl350 forks, cb450 drum. If all goes well I am going to put a stock engine in it tomorrow.

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Author Topic: Road racing question (very basic) (Read 8491 times)