Topic: Drugs in the USA

[74cb750]

I just found out this drug was just approved by the FDA in 2006.
Bet my mother would have loved it if the drug had been available for
the last 10 years of his life. He died at the age of 52 (1972)
and I sometimes wonder if his death was partly from being so tired,
inattentive,
from not being able to sleep many hours in a row.

Maybe it was the reason he fell off a roof,
lived with back pain etc etc for the last 5 years ,
 but his health took a steep dive
after recovering from breaking parts in his back.

Guess I will never know.

peace,
michel

Hey Michel, was your mother really a guy? Wow.

WHAT? she was? Oh mon dieux, sooooo that's why my parents had such strange friends.
peace,
michel

[Goofaroo]

Instead of paying into the failed private sector insurance, why can't we just have the option to pay into a public system?   We could call it "Medicare".

That would certainly provide some stiff competition for the insurance companies.

For that matter,  why do we even want insurance?  I would prefer to pay directly for health services and leave the coders, billing clerks, insurance companies, and third party billing services out of the loop.   

[JeffSTL]

^Goofaroo that is the simple and effective way to fix our "system". The plan is already there.  Just let anyone who wants to opt into medicare. Private insures would quickly starve.

[motocyconomad]

#$%* this #$%* i'm going to Mexico ... its cheap and bull#$%*less.

[Bob Wessner]

For that matter,  why do we even want insurance?

Actually, I think what we term "health insurance" is a misnomer. It should be called pre-paid health care. The traditional definition of insurance is to cover a risk or loss that may, or may not happen. For example,I've paid home owner's insurance  for 40 years on this house and have yet to make a claim [crosses fingers], but I would not want to be without it. I'm sure others have done the same. Another example would be Lloyds of London and shipping. On the other hand, virtually no one gets in or out of this world without incurring health care expenses. For the general population, the most expensive years are your first and last. A bit of trivia, the first recognized need for pre-paid health care was for a small segment of the population, seafarers as I recall, in 1798.

[Goofaroo]

^Goofaroo that is the simple and effective way to fix our "system". The plan is already there.  Just let anyone who wants to opt into medicare. Private insures would quickly starve.

It seems like the simple solution but how do we make it happen?  Voting doesn't work because because the candidate that accepts the most campaign funds from special interest groups usually wins because it is so simple for them to poison our opinions at will.  Don't kid yourselves, there are some very powerful groups that do NOT want us to have a single payer health option.

We have a similar problem here in Oklahoma with our Marijuana laws.  We are locking people up over simple possession. However, the private prison industry and the Baptists have done a fine job of keeping our laws just the way they want them.  Any attempt to introduce bills that would either allow medicinal use or at least reduce the charges associated with drug offences is shot down before it can even be discussed rationally.  Meanwhile, us tax payers are left footing the bill for incarceration, welfare for their effected families, loss of tax revenue as they lose their jobs, medical care while they are in prison, clogged court systems, etc.  Of course the real atrocity is that these people are spending time in jail for victimless "crimes".

The answer to how to solve these problems falls squarely on our shoulders.  It is up to the people to police their government and so far we are failing miserably.  There is too much complacency and not enough pitchforks. 

[JeffSTL]

The problem with that is a quarter of the population desperately wants these changes, another quarter is willfully shooting themselves in the foot and the last half has an i don't give a #$%* unless it is happening to me at the moment attitude. Plus, the major players making piles of money off the status quo will spend plenty to keep things the way they are and there is not a shortage of people in congress willing to take that money.

[JeffSTL]

My kid has 4 years of school left. After he graduates we are definitely moving out of Missouri and are considering moving abroad. Not really sure where to start with that. Maybe I should start a "becoming an ex-pat" thread.

With the threats of gutting social security and Medicare the future looks frightening here for a middle class family depending on a 401k and no retirement benefits.

[70CB750]

My kid has 4 years of school left. After he graduates we are definitely moving out of Missouri and are considering moving abroad. Not really sure where to start with that. Maybe I should start a "becoming an ex-pat" thread.

With the threats of gutting social security and Medicare the future looks frightening here for a middle class family depending on a 401k and no retirement benefits.

Czech this out for starters:

http://www.expats.cz/

[Bob Wessner]

One of my all time quotable quotes from a couple of years ago was "keep the government out of my Medicare." 

[Goofaroo]

That quote doesn't surprise me at all.   I would even guess that most people on Medicaid are vocally opposed to Obamacare.  You have heard that it's communism haven't you?

[74cb750]

That quote doesn't surprise me at all.   I would even guess that most people on Medicaid are vocally opposed to Obamacare.  You have heard that it's communism haven't you?

Damn communists.

[Stev-o]

#$%* this #$%* i'm going to Mexico ... its cheap and bull#$%*less.

Or South America! 

[JeffSTL]

One of my all time quotable quotes from a couple of years ago was "keep the government out of my Medicare." 

Yes, I've seen that. Amazing quote.

Seriously, this is not shaping up to be the American dream I was raised on.

My dad retired from UPS. We were far from well off, but always had a roof over our head, great medical care and warm meals.  I was taught to work hard and earn everything you have (which I have). My dad was able to retire at 55 years old after working there for 37 years and he and my mom live comfortably (not extravagantly) with his pension and medical benefits.

I have worked full time for 18 years now and have $75k saved in a 401k and will receive no benefits if and when I ever could quit working. I just don't see it happening. I will likley have to work until the day I die. That is if anyone will employ a broken down old man.

Just about all of the gains that were made by the labor movement have been taken back by corporate greed. Hell, just last week the House voted to basically end overtime pay (something I greatly depend on, usually working 70hrs. A week)

I'm 38 years old. The baby boomers will be the last generation that will have had the chance to live the dream.

[74cb750]

One of my all time quotable quotes from a couple of years ago was "keep the government out of my Medicare." 

Yes, I've seen that. Amazing quote.

Seriously, this is not shaping up to be the American dream I was raised on.

My dad retired from UPS. We were far from well off, but always had a roof over our head, great medical care and warm meals.  I was taught to work hard and earn everything you have (which I have). My dad was able to retire at 55 years old after working there for 37 years and he and my mom live comfortably (not extravagantly) with his pension and medical benefits.

I have worked full time for 18 years now and have $75k saved in a 401k and will receive no benefits if and when I ever could quit working. I just don't see it happening. I will likley have to work until the day I die. That is if anyone will employ a broken down old man.

Just about all of the gains that were made by the labor movement have been taken back by corporate greed. Hell, just last week the House voted to basically end overtime pay (something I greatly depend on, usually working 70hrs. A week)

I'm 38 years old. The baby boomers will be the last generation that will have had the chance to live the dream.

Just about all of the gains that were made by the labor movement have been taken back by corporate greed. Hell, just last week the House voted to basically end overtime pay (something I greatly depend on, usually working 70hrs. A week)

Really? Have not heard anything about this.

[70CB750]

Here is information - ok outdated a bit - on ESRD in US.  Something people are not usually aware of, the repetitive treatments in general account for a lot of the medical cost:

In 2006, more than 500,000 patients received some form of end-stage renal disease therapy in the United States, and Medicare spent nearly $23 billion to care for them, according to the U.S. Renal Data System’s 2008 Annual Data Report.

Between 2005 and 2006, the number of new ESRD cases grew 3.4 percent, which is the first time the population has grown more than 2 percent in a year since 2000, according to the USRDS report. Of the new ESRD cases, the number of new dialysis patients grew nearly 4 percent.

In 2006, 110,854 new dialysis and transplant patients started ESRD therapy; 87,654 patients died. In all, more than 506,000 patients were receiving treatment by the end of 2006. Of that, nearly 355,000 were being treated by dialysis, a three-fold increase since 1988. Also in 2006, 151,502 patients had a functioning transplant. 

ESRD Costs

Medicare spending on ESRD reached $22.7 billion in 2006, and the total per person per year cost of ESRD was $61,164. When non-Medicare spending, such as employer-based health groups, are factored in, total ESRD costs reached $33.6 billion—or 1.6 percent of the $2.1 trillion the United States spent on healthcare in 2006.

The ESRD program accounted for 6.4 percent of all Medicare spending, which reached $355 billion in 2006, according to the report. However, between 2005 and 2006, overall Medicare growth outpaced ESRD growth, 7.1 percent and 5.9 percent, respectively.

Breaking that down, though, paints a clearer picture of how those costs are spent by modality. According to the USRDS report, in 2006, Medicare spent $71,889 per year on a hemodialysis patient, $53,327 per year on a peritoneal dialysis patient, and $24,952 per year on a transplant patient.

Peritoneal dialysis continued its decade-long decline. At one point, 11 percent of dialysis patients were using the modality. In 2006, 7.4 percent were on peritoneal dialysis. However, 2006 saw the highest number of kidney transplants at 18,052.

[Retro Rocket]

So whats your point..?  The percentages are small but the costs are still outrageous, thats the problem. There's a lot of generalizing in there as well,  obesity counts for a hell of a lot more costs to your health system than transplants, heart problems, liver problems, diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure, massive amounts of medication, strokes, etc, etc,  I could go on but there is a hell of a lot more problems and involved costs with obesity than transplant patients. I had my transplant 14 years ago, I go to the specialists once a year and have a few blood tests during the year, my only real costs are medication {monthly}, which are much cheaper here than in the US {I recently priced a sun cancer medication made here and after reading about it in the States on a cancer forum,  found out that it was up too 5 times more expensive in the USA that here, without insurance} . There is a debate going on in Australia at the moment about keeping end stage patients alive just because the doctors can, most of these people just want to go, not all but most, and the laws we all currently have are part of the problem. I spent a year in a trauma ward full of end stage  cancer, liver and kidney patients, I watched them die on a regular basis, all of  their lives  prolonged as long as possible before they expired, I think thats a problem, the people waiting for transplants are NOT part of the problem, I saw babies born with malfunctioning Kidneys and patients with Polycystic kidney disease which is a hereditary disease that were otherwise normal, die waiting for transplants, I was end stage myself, but now i am completely normal and probably have better stats than most people here, you can't just bundle statistics together to prove a point, whats the old saying lies, damn lies and statistics. Stop the pharmaceutical companies from ripping everyone off and rein in the insurance rip offs and a massive amount of that cost would disappear.. All that quote says to me is that you are all being ripped off, profit before compassion.....

[70CB750]

My only point is that I did not know anything about the whole ESRD "industry"  till I started my current job as a test engineer and work on this project:

 http://www.projectcrownweb.org/ 

Just like everybody else, if it does not concern me, I will not know much about it.

Just dealing with the software side of ESRD scares the crap out of me.

My sympathies, man, you been through a lot and congrats on your recovery.

[Retro Rocket]

Thanks. I've been reading about a lot of US medical costs lately and i think, in my opinion, someone needs to really do something about the drug and insurance companies, we are far from perfect but we have , well it seems from what i've read, much better consumer protection, you guys are being held to ransom and its quite shocking. What blows me away is that the whole country will jump up and down about gun control {and win} but little to no effort is going into this subject at all. If the same passion was shown towards the huge companies that use you guys as cash cows then maybe, just maybe you could see real change. I'm really serious about the obesity epidemic, it accounts for a massive amount of resources and associated costs in health care, it is a massive drain on the system....

[Bob Wessner]

Here's a decent source of info on medical costs and utilization. There has always been a relatively small sub-set of the total population that utilizes the most services and one rarely knows when he or she may fall into some of the categories.

http://www.ahrq.gov/research/findings/factsheets/costs/expriach/index.html

[greenjeans]

2010 - crashed my mountain bike.  Needed some stiches.   I got 11 stitches from a student at the ER as it was the only option that day.  $3214.45

2 x-rays which I insisted were not necessary and 11 stitches - I was in and out in under an hour.    My insurance paid $1714.45. I got stuck with the rest.

That is what healthcare has come to.   As an example, when I was born in 1967, I was born premature.  Less than 4 lbs.   Stayed in the

hospital a month.  Most of it in ICU.   The total bill:  $3017    My mom still has the receipt framed on the wall of their house as they used to joke that I

the most expensive baby in all of Michigan.


Now, I have my own suture kit.   I have fixed 2 or 3 pretty decent gashes since.        System is broken.   


They should have the smart kids (still in school so they are not too exposed to the reality of the situation) do projects - work on some sort of workable

model that may some day start things back in the right direction.    Most politicians just are not capable.

[simon#42]

from the outside looking in a big problem seems to be the way that your politicians are elected . by the time they have managed to get themselves into a position where they can change things they are so beholden to the money men that got them there that they are powerless to act without permission . if you want to see change you have to separate the politicians from the money men . imagine having a president that was in power for the benefit of the people rather than the arms manufacturers , petrochemical companies etc etc . and no before you ask britain isn't perfect at all but there is a limit of how much money can be spent during an election which does make things better .

[74cb750]

from the outside looking in a big problem seems to be the way that your politicians are elected . by the time they have managed to get themselves into a position where they can change things they are so beholden to the money men that got them there that they are powerless to act without permission . if you want to see change you have to separate the politicians from the money men . imagine having a president that was in power for the benefit of the people rather than the arms manufacturers , petrochemical companies etc etc . and no before you ask britain isn't perfect at all but there is a limit of how much money can be spent during an election which does make things better .

THis is true, BUT the politicians are the ones responsible for our system, and really,
why would they want to change it?

I once met an honest man;
 a person whom had almost reached self-actualization,
and felt he had to fix all the problems he had caused in others' lives.
Before he could set the wrongs he committed in the past he was shot and killed,
and everyone whom knew him still hated him.

The moral? IF a politician did manage to propose meaningful changes to our system,
he would not be in office long.

[BobbyR]

That is what healthcare has come to.   As an example, when I was born in 1967, I was born premature.  Less than 4 lbs.   Stayed in the hospital a month.  Most of it in ICU.   The total bill:  $3017   

My 1967 Mustang 2+2 Fastback with the Shelby engine and fully loaded options has a full retail sticker price of about $3,000. You seem to have held up batter than the Mustang.

[Retro Rocket]

Another major problem is the drug companies "sponsoring" doctors, throwing money at them to promote their drugs, that in itself is a multi million dollar industry that should be outlawed....  There are a lot of people taking drugs that really shouldn't and another large portion that , with small changes to lifestyle, could be drug free as well... Its also illegal here to advertise prescription drugs on TV..
Did you know that American kids are the most medicated in the world {American's are the most medicated people on earth}....Start the dependence young and you've got them for life....    The drug companies really need to be reined in....