Topic: Poor shifting practice?

[cosmicvision]

With 36xxx miles on the clock, my clutch is pretty shot. Can't find neutral while stopped, twisting throttle past halfway causes RPM to jump while in gear, etc etc. In the interest of preserving what's left of it, I've noticed it's pretty smooth to shift without the clutch if you grab the next gear while rolling off the throttle just right. What I do is real lightly press upward on the shift lever and lean out of the gas slightly and it seems to just slip right in (no pun intended). No clunks, no shudders; I try to be pretty attentive to this type of thing. Is this harmful to the drivetrain in any way? I'm riding it out for now but maybe I just need to get off my lazy a$$ and tackle this clutch job.

[70CB750]

When did you change oil and what oil do you use?

[ekpent]

These bikes have a constant mesh tranny and can be shifted without a clutch but since it sounds like you have some major slipping going on in the higher RPM's etc I think you know its time to bite the bullet and get that clutch checked out.
  Are running extra slippery sythetic oil by chance or just good old fashioned dino ?

[lucky]

If you continue to use a bike after the clutch is known to be slipping, the metal plates will turn blue from all the heat and will warp. Then you will have to replace all of the metal plates in addition to the fiber plates.

[camelman]

You should check the clutch basket fingers for wear too. The clutch discs will create divots in the clutch fingers over time which will make it hard to find neutral, create false neutrals, clutch slippage and result in vague clutch engagement. I think DSS has new units available now, but you can also just file the fingers smooth. A long file will perfectly contact the load surfaces on opposing fingers.

Camelman

[crazypj]

I don't understand why everyone wants to change clutches but leave the crappy old springs in place?
 I have around 106,000 miles on my 550 clutch, 70,000 with a 591cc cammed, ported, 13,000rpm motor
The only modification to clutch was fit heavy duty springs

[cosmicvision]

it sounds like you have some major slipping going on in the higher RPM's

It's not terrible yet, it'll hold about 80mph at best, if I'm hugging the tank. The moment I try to sit up off the tank it slips right out though. But I don't really NEED to be doing over 80 so I just view it as my sign to slow the f#*k down

I don't understand why everyone wants to change clutches

Quite the contrary, I'd like to not dick with it if I don't have to.

I've never dealt with restoring a clutch (and am a little intimidated, thus my procrastination regarding this issue)...the clutch IS still working, just less than it should...and based on the responses here it looks like I can squeeze more life out of it by doing things like filing the fingers smooth. So before I make matters worse, maybe today is the day I will grow a pair & pop the cover off to see what all is going on under there.

Also I didn't think about the oil level affecting clutch function either...I got the weepy head gasket woes too so it's possible that the oil's a little low. Changed it last summer, a good 2,000 miles ago I reckon. And with the leak I'm putting a fresh quart in it periodically anyway, so the oil shouldn't be real nasty. Regular ol' dino, I think I put 15w40 in there, thinking the leak would be slowed with heavier oil. Do these clutches react better to heavier weight or lighter?

At any rate, looks like the plan of action is to make sure oil is clean & full, check out the fingers & file smooth, and look into heavier springs if I can't gain much ground.

And a side note, I'm intrigued by this 13k rpm motor PJ. Sounds like a similar goal of mine, eventually. 650 cam?

[xsmooth69x]

The springs on the basket actually gain something from upgradeing them ?!?!?!

[cosmicvision]

I have seen sticky clutch cables slip a perfectly good clutch.

Thinking I should replace that too! Maybe this isn't as grim as I was fearing.

[bollingball]

If you are willing to do all this filing,spring changing. Then go ahead and in your words grow a pair and do the whole thing and be done with it. Maybe like Lucky said you have not warped the other disk.
Ken

[bjbuchanan]

From what you said you need to change your oil. By now that oil is basically doing nothing in the engine, tranny and clutch basket. Remember to use "old" style oil, none of the new slip additives or green stuff

[Bluto]

Do the clutch man.........

I'm a rookie and I did my 76 550K with no problems.  You tube video.....step by step!  fiber plates and springs are cheap!

[LesterPiglet]

The springs on the basket actually gain something from upgradeing them ?!?!?!

Yes, you gain a gigantic left hand.    New standard springs may make a decent difference but I wouldn't advise heavy duty springs.

[TwoTired]

With 36xxx miles on the clock, my clutch is pretty shot.

Maybe.  But, you don't have enough data to make that diagnosis, imo.

Can't find neutral while stopped, 

That's a draggy clutch
Bad oil (wrong oil, worn out oil), poor adjustment, or warped plates.

twisting throttle past halfway causes RPM to jump while in gear, etc etc.

Slipping clutch.
Poor adjustment, wrong oil additives, worn plates, weak springs.

In the interest of preserving what's left of it, I've noticed it's pretty smooth to shift without the clutch if you grab the next gear while rolling off the throttle just right. What I do is real lightly press upward on the shift lever and lean out of the gas slightly and it seems to just slip right in (no pun intended).
No clunks, no shudders; I try to be pretty attentive to this type of thing. Is this harmful to the drivetrain in any way?

That is speed shifting done routinely in drag racing. (Where frequent rebuilds or a way of life.)  Being a constant mesh trans, the gears won't suffer, but the engagement dogs will eventually round off leading the trans not staying in the selected gear  There is also extra wear on the shifting mechanism, ie, Drum/forks, etc.(when pressing up before throttle blip), which is also what holds the dogs in engagement.

I'm riding it out for now but maybe I just need to get off my lazy a$$ and tackle this clutch job.

Or, you could wait 'til you need a transmission repair (engine out of frame and split the cases) and then do the clutch at the same time.
A clutch job/exam can be done with the engine staying in frame.

I'd prefer to save the trans over nursing a poor clutch.

Spare the clutch, spend the trans?  Your call.

[cosmicvision]

I'd prefer to save the trans over nursing a poor clutch.

Spare the clutch, spend the trans? Your call.

Truth. This is the reality of my situation that I'm trying to baby around. When in doubt I refer to the Popeye quote in your sig TT 

I think my (very) limited tool cache is the one factor hindering me from diving right into any of these repairs. I suppose I'm just afraid of getting halfway into a job, my bike in pieces in the driveway, to discover that I don't have the means to finish it off.

Often the same reason I puss out & roll my car across town to the shadetree guy whenever something out of my realm comes up. Would much prefer to do the work myself, but ya gotta get to work y'know

[Bankerdanny]

The clutch should not be a specialty tool intensive job. There are a couple that can make reinstallation easier, but they are not necessary.

But before taking it apart, lube the cable and make the appropriate adjustments of the cable to make sure you have the correct amount of free play in the lever. If it still slips after that then it is time to open it up and take a look.

[crazypj]

To do a 550 clutch you'll need 12mm and 14mm to loosen clutch adjuster/cable
12mm socket to remove kickstart lever 14mm socket to remove footrest
Impact driver  with #3 Phillips bit (large size is same as JIS)
Hammer to whack impact driver
10mm socket to unscrew clutch spring bolts (they are only torqued to 9ft/lbs so be careful re-fitting them)
 I forget socket size for center nut, 27mm?
If you don't want to get too involved, get heavy duty springs but only change two diagonally opposite each other, you may not need plates if you do things soon

[Retro Rocket]

Going up the gears without clutch is easy, its going down gears under load where you will eventually do damage...

[cosmicvision]

Going up the gears without clutch is easy, its going down gears under load where you will eventually do damage...

I've noticed the lower the RPM (less load) when you shift down, the smoother it goes. Like if you're coming up to a stop sign in top gear and step it down a couple gears just barely off idle as you slow down it's almost the same as having the clutch pulled.

[Retro Rocket]

Going up the gears without clutch is easy, its going down gears under load where you will eventually do damage...

I've noticed the lower the RPM (less load) when you shift down, the smoother it goes. Like if you're coming up to a stop sign in top gear and step it down a couple gears just barely off idle as you slow down it's almost the same as having the clutch pulled.

My old GSX750 es lost 2nd gear completely while down changing without the clutch....

[cosmicvision]

I believe it. Not wanting to make a habit of it...since posting this thread I've become more aware of the inherent damage that can come from skipping the clutch. Boneheaded move to keep riding on the problem I guess. Got a couple days of rain in the forecast so I'm gonna see if I can't make some adjustments & get a little more function out of the clutch before I start f*#king up other things on the bike with my stubborn persistence to ride...

[dave500]

it puts more pressure on the shift forks aswell wearing them faster,i wouldnt do it on a road bike,dirt bikes i always upshifted no clutch,always de clutched for downshifts though.

[LesterPiglet]

I lost third clutchless shifting up, I was revving the balls of it on the beach though. Thing is I didn't know third had gone until I downshifted for a tight right turn. (we drive on the left). Dry stone walls are scary coasting on a bend at 50mph.