Topic: VFourfreak's extensive research of the 1940 French military campaign

[vfourfreak]

Shall I begin ?

[Damfino]

https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=1R2GZAG_enUS471&q=french+military+victories&oq=french+military+&gs_l=igoogle.1.0.0l10.24.3809.0.7703.14.10.0.3.3.1.405.1331.0j3j2j0j1.6.0...0.0...1ac.1.12.igoogle.aVXhPDxZ-cY

[vfourfreak]

I had a leeetle more up my sleeeve than than that ! If you still wish to hear it.

[70CB750]

Sure, go ahead.  Somewhere in that mess were Czech and Slovak pilots, trying to make it to UK.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Does it involve hanky waving whilst running backwards?

[faux fiddy]

Shall I begin ?

Where? Alsace-Lorraine?  Kolmar Pocket? Worse than the Battle of the Bulge. 12th Armored Division.
http://12tharmoredmuseum.com/

[demon78]

V4 go.
Bill the demon.

[70CB750]

Does it involve hanky waving whilst running backwards?

This is what I would call stereotyping, interesting nobody from PC crowd ever reacts to it.  AFAIK it is only American joke, same as only Americans call USA home of the brave and land of free - the rest of the world has serious doubts about it.

Edit:  Yes, I am cranky, I did not sleep worth a $hit last night   

[Damfino]

Does it involve hanky waving whilst running backwards?

This is what I would call stereotyping, interesting nobody from PC crowd ever reacts to it.  AFAIK it is only American joke, same as only Americans call USA home of the brave and land of free - the rest of the world has serious doubts about it.

Edit:  Yes, I am cranky, I did not sleep worth a $hit last night   

That's nothing, think of all those perfectly good rifles they dropped! 

[70CB750]

Those Lebels were not worth much anyway.

[cj750]

I enjoy jokes about the cheese-eating surrender monkeys as much as anyone, but the truth is, the individual French soldier of 1940 was generally as well trained and equipped, and just as brave, as any soldier in the world. Unfortunately for them, the French leadership was so reliant on the Maginot line that when it was bypassed by the Germans, they had no real plan to re-deploy their army and defend the interior. They simply couldn't adapt their strategy fast enough to counter the German Blitzkrieg tactics. There are plenty of stories of individual French (and British) units that gave a good account of themselves, but the overall tactical situation decayed around them so quickly, it ultimately didn't matter.
Anyway, that's my 15-second synopsis of the 1940 French campaign.

[70CB750]

To understand their behavior in 1940, one has to remember the slaughter of WWI.  For the same reason they did not want to get engaged for my country and threw us under the bus in Munich:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

[Duke McDukiedook]

Does it involve hanky waving whilst running backwards?

This is what I would call stereotyping, interesting nobody from PC crowd ever reacts to it.  AFAIK it is only American joke, same as only Americans call USA home of the brave and land of free - the rest of the world has serious doubts about it.

Edit:  Yes, I am cranky, I did not sleep worth a $hit last night   

Look, it is a well placed rib to ze French, not meant to be taken seriously by any means.
I love the Frenchies and I am wise enough to know we (the US) owe a lot to the French.
We probably would have not survived the war of Independence without their help and aid.

So, with that being said is it okay if I crack a little wise at their expense?
Am I not allowed to poke a little fun at other countries and their stereotypes without being browbeat by ze PC polize?

[Duanob]

Wow to think 70CB750 is the PC police in this thread, I think I might be still asleep! 

The only thing that save America's butt in the beginning of WWII was our isolation from the rest of the western world. If we had Germany as a neighbor instead of Canada we would probably would've have suffered the same fate. It took a couple of years for us to get rolling with experienced fighters and military equipment build up. But I'm glad things turned out the way they did

[70CB750]

Dukie, joke all you want, I am just always amazed how selective and hypocritical the PC correct are.

[MoMo]

Waiting for V4 to start up...Larry

[Duke McDukiedook]

Dukie, joke all you want, I am just always amazed how selective and hypocritical the PC correct are.

You probably misunderstood because of my lack of a smiley and sarcaso-text.
 

[70CB750]

I said i am cranky 

[vfourfreak]

VFourfreak is endeavouring to get his truck in gear. Owing to his skinflint nature, all notes taken during late Summer were made in cheap pencil. A freak thunderstorm overtook the freak on his antique Honda upon his return to the sunny climes of the south of France, causing major deterioration to his manuscript. Merde !

However, I can disclose that the revelations of the 1940 campaign will be along the lines of a diary. VFourfreak regularly fell asleep in history classes in Dublin in the 1970s so he appreciates as well as the next man just how dry history can be. In an endeavour to make history  easy to understand and fun at the same time (if that is possible) your guide to this lamented period of my country's history will be along the lines of Blackadder and his Captain Darling.

Expect historical fact mixed with some mirth. I Hope, sorry Vfourfreak hopes.

Kev

[vfourfreak]

Shall I begin ?

Where? Alsace-Lorraine?  Kolmar Pocket? Worse than the Battle of the Bulge. 12th Armored Division.
http://12tharmoredmuseum.com/

Hey Faux,

while VFour is down the garage trying to dry his manuscript, can I please share a story regarding US artillery in 1945 ? I had the pleasure to work for DuPont in Delaware in 1982. There was a great guy there named Ted who served in the artillery in 1944/1945 , I took lunch with him any time I could such where his stories and anecdotes. Ted related to me a day in April 1945 when they had been lopping shells at the retreating Wehrmacht approaching the river Elbe. Word came over the radio that their shells were now landing on Red Army lines on the other side of the Elbe, they were now that close to each other. Unfortunately, Ted had just loaded the artillery piece with a shell and nobody wanted to extract it, being fused and all. So the officer in charge asked all 5 of them in turn if they personally knew any Russians, to which they all truthfully answered in the negative. So the officer then yanked the cord, launching a shell on to his allies. Maybe it fell harmlessly,or perhaps it killed a few Russians who had survived many years of cruel warfare.

Who knows. War is very horrible.

But I digress. I hear noises from the garage (big echoes due to empty vat) VF may be close to producing a manuscript.

Kev

[vfourfreak]

While unwilling to leave the garage, VFourfreak has admitted to me that his manuscript revolves around two officers on the French General Staff of 1940, but their real names are protected with the use of pseudonyms.

Expect to hear from the Colonel Cultrou and his much harassed Capitaine Petit-Malin.

Kev

[Bailgang]

Just curious vfour but how does France view the legacy Pétain today? The reason I ask is because I saw a documentary about Vichy France and although the documentary didn't outright attack Pétain it did tend to view him as a collaborator with the enemy almost cowardly and on the other hand praised de Gaulle. I tended to see it the other way around because even though Pétain may have collaborated with the Germans he did so only enough to keep the Germans from wiping out his people, basically keeping his country alive till the end of the war. On the other hand I saw de Gaulle as the coward because he's the one who took off and ran when German occupation became a reality and didn't come back until the Germans were out. de Gaulle no doubt was instrumental in rebuilding France but it seems Pétain was the one who at least kept France together so de Gaulle had a country to come home to to start with.

Watching one documentary doesn't make me an expert on the subject so feel free to enlighten me on the topic.

[vfourfreak]

Goodness Scott, talk about hitting the nail on the head !!!! In France today the Vichy regime is still considered as being disgraceful and collaborationist. Hind sight is great. The options at the time were very difficult. Not to steal the thunder of the (yet to happen) revelations by VFourfreak, France stood alone against Germany while the British retreated home. Continental Europe was trapped by the Germans on one side and by the USSR who invaded the eastern half of Poland.
The Armistice (Not a surrender)  signed by Petain in June 1940 was the only pragmatic way of saving the country, but it lead to a shameful period that is even yet being acknowledged. I cannot (and neither will VF) judge, we will just try and present the facts.

Kev

[simon#42]

not sure that france did stand alone against the germans, when we left france had fallen , the reason the british where retreating was the germans had walked from one end to the other  and were kicking us out the other side

[vfourfreak]

Hey Simon, let's see how the discussion develops , OK ?

But as context : the BEF had been in France since September 1939. The German action against France commenced on May 10th 1940. The Dunkerque evacuation of BEF troops commenced on May 26th and was completed on June 4th yet the armistice between France and Germany  was only signed on June 22nd.
I think it is safe to say the French army was left on it's own for a little while.

Kev