Topic: Toustic's CB550F - A Swiss' first build

[vfourfreak]

Well done !!!!!!!!!!! A great achievement Seb.

Kev

[vfourfreak]

But . . next time don't rebuild the bike on the ceiling, it is so much more difficult that way. 

Kev

[Stev-o]

I knew you would do it, congrats.    Whats next?

[Toustic]

Thank a lot guys, much appreciated support.

I still need to check my carbs sync, adjust my spark advancer, and I'm waiting on a Hondaman Ignition and fusebox to come in.
Then installing the chain, brake lines, rear set, and last but not least, gotta find a way to pad that seat and paint the seat+tank combo.

But all that feels like a quarter of challenge compared to getting the engine to run. Start on a quarter of a turn now, and seems to be idling and revving smoothly. Although I didn't get to check it much, as the garage doesn't feature many vents and didn't want to kill myself by letting the engine run for too long.

[vfourfreak]

It's a good feeling eh ? Well done.

Kev

[Toustic]

I still have oil leaking out of the oil pan, despite brand new gasket. Mostly coming out of the front of the pan.

I've torqued it by hand, but didn't use a torque wrench as my friend had to get his back (buying my own tomorrow).

[Maurice]

Glad you figured out electrical, always a good feeling.

Is your gasket vesrah by any chance? Mine failed too, but OEM is much better. Seems the section is significantly wider. If vesrah just chuck it now. Careful torque-ing those bolts...

[vfourfreak]

my advice is to drop the pan and remove the gasket. Get a pane of glass larger than the pan and place the pan upon it. Use a thin feeler gauge blade to see if there is any gap between the mating surface and the glass. This test will show if there is any warpage in the pan.

Maurice may well be correct about the gasket, so please consider that also.

I am not sure, but there may be dowels in some of the 6mm bolt holes. If there are, check them for damage, like being burred or oval in shape because that wil prevent the pan from closing up to the crankcase.

Don't worry, this is a small hiccup, you will get there.

Kev

[Toustic]

Glad you figured out electrical, always a good feeling.

Is your gasket vesrah by any chance? Mine failed too, but OEM is much better. Seems the section is significantly wider. If vesrah just chuck it now. Careful torque-ing those bolts...

You're spot on my friend... Vesrah indeed.

At least I know better now 

Tho crap .. Now I have to get another one

[Toustic]

I'm still hunting down a stock oil pan gasket to fix that leak.

In the meantime I figured I'd adjust my clutch and throttle cables.
Wanted to test throttle response and the "kick"start for the 1st time:

http://youtu.be/K-eKxVzGZOY

Is this considered a bit smoky?

[rb550four]

It's funny that I 'm reading about this Vesurah pan gasket leak. Last week I noticed about 1/3 of my bikes pan gaskets are leaking this year and most of the engines only have a hundred miles on them since rebuild , and haven't been road run in a year. I was about to ask if anyone else has had this issue with this brand. Now I know.

[Toustic]

@calj737 - That makes me feel better, and thank you for the reinsurance and compliments my friend
@rb550four - I got fooled by Vesrah's claims to be a "perfect" replacement for OEM/NOS gaskets - Live and learn 

So... I wasn't getting a neutral switch light at the dash, but not too worried as I was actually getting a voltage reading at the bulb socket.

The one thing I'm not feeling great about is the fact that when the bike is stopped (and off) I'm getting an neutral, a push down to 1st, a pull up to 2nd, but that's it... When I try to go up the gears, it's like I'm bottomed out 
Either I messed the hell up when setting my gearing and shifting forks when closing up the engine, or the upper gears don't actually engage unless you're actually riding at a certain speed (which I've read somewhere). I'm ignorantly hoping it's the latter, but mainly because I'd be too bummed out to consider the former. Since I took the carbs apart for cleaning, I can't really take her out for a spin to see if the clutch and I can get along.

Lastly, does anybody have seat strap buckles for sale by any chance? I found some online but at 40$ with shipping and taxes, which should be considered daylight robbery.

Thanks for reading.

Thy Humbly,
Seb

[Toustic]

Neutral switch is under left side cover, green/red wire. Comes up thru the gang harness, then to indicator.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/CB550.jpg

As for moving through the gears, relax. With the motor off, you will really struggle to select anything higher than 2nd. If you want to evaluate upper gears safely, then either jack the bike up in rear with a paddock stand, and run the motor and move thru them, or at a minimum, have the chain moving fast as you can.

If you opt for paddock stand route, do 2 things: hold the front brake fully while doing this, and point the bike outdoors should it happen to come down and catch. It will want some room to run (ask me how I know).

As always, you save me from my misery good sir 
Both 1st and 2nd gear click in cleanly, and strongly, but while I was looking it up, I found someone on an unrelated post suggesting the owner to run through all 5 gears at a stop, and then down to 1st again. So it made me a bit doubtful.

I've checked the neutral switch under the LSC and I'm getting a 12V reading at the tip of the wire, but not at the dash. I'm still a bit unclear in regards to the setting of the gear selector notch that's supposed to align with the switch, so I guess it's still a work in progress.

It was a Carb kind of day yesterday, getting all 6 of them ready for an ultrasonic bath:





The Virago was running like aboslute hell lately (hesitant, weak at low RPM, fast at random, sputters and backfires out of the carbs).
I figured, two birds one stone... Turns out both diaphragms were covered in holes and a few jets were partially clogged.

Anyways.. TO THE BATMOBILE

[Toustic]

So...

I've received the oil pan gasket, OEM sold by a very nice gentleman in the States. Thanks eBay.

Got the mating surface all nice and smooth on both ends. Tucked the gasket in.
As you can see, the Vesrah was off and got stuck in in the mating surface.



Ready to fill it back up:



As I fill up the oil (from the previous drain). I notice it got pretty dark but not too bad.
Most importantly, it has a bunch if weird shavings. I'm thinking it's the edge of one of the new bearings or oil seals.
They are not metal, more like hard plastic cause it curls in thin layers but I could play with it between my fingers without getting cut.




And there was a weird mixture of white liquid/bubbles at the bottom of the pan but I assume that was the lubricants used during assembly and such.

Anyways, I'm waiting on a complete carbs o-rings replacement kit, all Viton rubbers. The ones inside were all flatten and hard (contradicting, I know)

D.I.D 530VX Chain is on to finally complete the kit and make me realize that I can click-in all 5 gear cleanly with a bit of a wheel spin :


New Daiichi points plate re-installed


Galfer break lines installed. Bottom one painted black but this one looks cool like that.


High-temp repaint on the headers/exhaust as I had to sand a bunch of rusty patches on the headers.


to be noted: Custom made paint-drying broomstick Vespa-tripod

That's it for now. It's a slowbuild but I do what I can.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with his work but Maxwell Hazan has his bikes for sale in  a gallery in Geneva and they are just amazing.





Cheers,
Sebastien

[Maurice]

Are you running offset sprockets? Otherwise you run the risk of wearing a hole in your cases with an X-ring chain, they're a smidge too wide... PO of my motor did that, luckily caught in time.

Standard chain is good enough.

[Toustic]

The front sprocket should but but can't remember now.
It was sold as a chain kit for CB550F so I didn't think too much into it

[Toustic]

The front sprocket should but but can't remember now.
It was sold as a chain kit for CB550F so I didn't think too much into it

No offset on the front sprocket indeed...
I am getting a 6mm spacer for the front sprocket from JT (hoping it's enough). The business that sold me the kit apologized for relying solely on JT's specs to label their kits (and didn't know that 530 X or O-rings had clearance issue on this bike), and has shipped a spacer to me yesterday. I'd use the stock chain kit, but the stock sprockets' teeth were eaten/slanted and the chain had too much play, so I figured I'd switch it all together. Was not familiar enough with the clearance issue to make the right decision at purchase 

Working on the stock seat now. If I have to use it to get the bike registered, might as well do it right and make it SESSY..
Grated seat foam anyone?


One question that I  have, is if any of you uses the Gunson Colortune spark tool in order to fine-tune carbs adjustments?
Going to London this weekend and thought about picking one up, 2nd hand.
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?code=G4074
I was reading up about it and wondering if it was worth the purchase.

Same question about carbs-synch tools... Manometer or Vacuum gauges? I'm thinking it's not a big deal as they both generally get the job done, but since I have to order one online I want to make sure I get reliable stuff right off the bat.
(I was thinking vacuum because they are easier to get and looks more self-explanatory but thought I'd ask).

Thank you in advance.

[Stev-o]

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting.   I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....


http://www.carbtune.com

[Toustic]

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting.   I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....


http://www.carbtune.com

Thanks  Steve-o, that sounds good to me, and it looks like its one of the cheaper options of the bench test they did.
I like that.

I feel like the colortune could help me get the right combustion while taking the guessing game out of the way.
I'm all about efficient shortcuts 

If you want to see what it does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hFUvQ4gaPc
Getting that flame nice and Blueish

[seanbarney41]

I don't see how the Colortune can be useful, as there is no way to use it while the bike is under load. (going up hill, in fifth gear, at 60mph and half throttle, or 2 up in 3rd at 40 mph 1/3 throttle)

[Toustic]

I just need a tool that lets me adjust my carb settings without twisting my brains a hundred ways and thought this was a good means to an end.

Do you have a counter-proposal when it comes to a better tool that covers the job you described? I'd be very much interested in that...

[seanbarney41]

I just need a tool that lets me adjust my carb settings without twisting my brains a hundred ways and thought this was a good means to an end.

Do you have a counter-proposal when it comes to a better tool that covers the job you described? I'd be very much interested in that...

dyno with an oxygen sensor...otherwise it's use all the knowledge you have or can beg/borrow/steal to test-tune-test-tune-test-tune...until you get it right.  Starting to see why many here make such a big deal about the stock exhaust and airbox?  Don't lose heart though.  These bikes are still a hell of a lot of fun even when the tune-up is not right.

[vfourfreak]

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting.   I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....


http://www.carbtune.com

+1 on Morgan, I have a set for my V Fours, works a charm. (Made in Belfast)

I remember Gunson from the '70s, usefull for a car motor with a single carb, doubt that it could be of great use on a Honda 4, but I could be wrong.

Kev

[Toustic]

@seanbarney41

Thank you Sean.

Unfortunately Dyno runs are way expensive here, and only track runners (cars or bikes) have the resources to use one.

To be honest with you, the carbs were jetted for the pods and the Mac 4-1 while I was in LA., so that should be out of the way (hopefully). I have ordered the Morgan Carbtune, so now I have a tool for carb sync.

I was referring to the Colortune more in a "general" way... For example, I believe that my Virago misfires or doesn't fire at all under a certain RPM range, so the colortune could help me determine that on top of helping me get the mixture right.
________________________________

@vfourfreak

Got the Morgan and the Colortune. Figured "why not" 

From what I've seen, people check one chamber/carb at a time, and adjust them individually. I've seen it done with 2, and 4, but most only have the one plug, and use it throughout the adjustment.
________________________________


The problem that I have now... Is that I changed all o-rings on the jets, as well as the one of the drain screw, and the fuel intake T's (or whatever they are named haha). I put it all back together, and unfortunately, the bike won't start anymore...

Trying to figure it out... but first, let's put a few images up.. otherwise it's not as much fun




Sorry... I realize that my pictures are pretty dark. I never use the flash
The previous o-rings were dried up, and hard.


All done



Importantly dumb question... Is there a factory order in the carbs, or can you just put either ones in a pair (as long as the choke is on the left side of the bike and the fuel fittings match between the two)??

I'm wondering where I went wrong... 

Also..

[Toustic]

"Is there a factory order in the carbs, or can you just put either ones in a pair??"

I'll give you a hint: ever seen a build thread where the parts per carb were organized into numbered containers so as not to mix them up? There's a reason for that... Two guesses as to why, and you're first guess doesn't count.

Can they be mixed as you have them, yes, but you've made your task far more difficult by mixing and matching components and sequence. And now it won't start...why? What are the symptoms you are experiencing now?

Damn...

Well.. Based on your tone, I realize that I may have gone wrong somewhere along the way

1st Guess: I believed it was for fear of misfitting due to elongated wear of the parts (when being reused as is, not replaced or modified)
2nd guess: Because there is a specific firing sequence for each cylinder, and the carb must be setup in a way that facilitates that (tho I really wouldn't know why that is or what the differences could be).

I honestly went with the "since they sell jet kits and rebuild kits (not per/carb specific), and people seem to find way to mix and match carbs, I didn't think it would be an issue... But it was obviously an uneducated educated guess

When it comes to the symptoms...
It acts as if there wasn't any spark in the chamber. I don't hear a pop at the exhaust when it turns over.
Not gonna lie, the whole float level eludes me a bit, especially when people talk about the actual adjustment part of the carb floats (and I've read a lot on the topic strangely..)

I guess I'll be "THAT" thread that people use to warn newbies about bad moves and mis-handlings...

HOWEVER, It took me about 3 weeks to figure out why she wasn't starting after the engine rebuild. So I have a bit of time till this stumble gets under my skin for good haha

I'm the opposite of OCD so half the mistakes I've made so far were due to my lack of organisation - Subsequently, you can tell that I'm very aware of it, which is half the battle