Author Topic: Toustic's CB550F - A Swiss' first build (Read 32878 times)

calj737 · « **Reply #175 on:** July 10, 2014, 05:16:15 AM »

Neutral switch is under left side cover, green/red wire. Comes up thru the gang harness, then to indicator.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/CB550.jpg

As for moving through the gears, relax. With the motor off, you will really struggle to select anything higher than 2nd. If you want to evaluate upper gears safely, then either jack the bike up in rear with a paddock stand, and run the motor and move thru them, or at a minimum, have the chain moving fast as you can.

If you opt for paddock stand route, do 2 things: hold the front brake fully while doing this, and point the bike outdoors should it happen to come down and catch. It will want some room to run (ask me how I know).

Toustic · « **Reply #176 on:** July 10, 2014, 06:54:11 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 10, 2014, 05:16:15 AM

Neutral switch is under left side cover, green/red wire. Comes up thru the gang harness, then to indicator.

http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/WiringDiagrams/CB550.jpg

As for moving through the gears, relax. With the motor off, you will really struggle to select anything higher than 2nd. If you want to evaluate upper gears safely, then either jack the bike up in rear with a paddock stand, and run the motor and move thru them, or at a minimum, have the chain moving fast as you can.

If you opt for paddock stand route, do 2 things: hold the front brake fully while doing this, and point the bike outdoors should it happen to come down and catch. It will want some room to run (ask me how I know).

As always, you save me from my misery good sir

Both 1st and 2nd gear click in cleanly, and strongly, but while I was looking it up, I found someone on an unrelated post suggesting the owner to run through all 5 gears at a stop, and then down to 1st again. So it made me a bit doubtful.

I've checked the neutral switch under the LSC and I'm getting a 12V reading at the tip of the wire, but not at the dash. I'm still a bit unclear in regards to the setting of the gear selector notch that's supposed to align with the switch, so I guess it's still a work in progress.

It was a Carb kind of day yesterday, getting all 6 of them ready for an ultrasonic bath:

The Virago was running like aboslute hell lately (hesitant, weak at low RPM, fast at random, sputters and backfires out of the carbs).
I figured, two birds one stone... Turns out both diaphragms were covered in holes and a few jets were partially clogged.

Anyways.. TO THE BATMOBILE

Toustic · « **Reply #177 on:** July 21, 2014, 10:19:30 AM »

So...

I've received the oil pan gasket, OEM sold by a very nice gentleman in the States. Thanks eBay.

Got the mating surface all nice and smooth on both ends. Tucked the gasket in.
As you can see, the Vesrah was off and got stuck in in the mating surface.

Ready to fill it back up:

As I fill up the oil (from the previous drain). I notice it got pretty dark but not too bad.
Most importantly, it has a bunch if weird shavings. I'm thinking it's the edge of one of the new bearings or oil seals.
They are not metal, more like hard plastic cause it curls in thin layers but I could play with it between my fingers without getting cut.

And there was a weird mixture of white liquid/bubbles at the bottom of the pan but I assume that was the lubricants used during assembly and such.

Anyways, I'm waiting on a complete carbs o-rings replacement kit, all Viton rubbers. The ones inside were all flatten and hard (contradicting, I know)

D.I.D 530VX Chain is on to finally complete the kit and make me realize that I can click-in all 5 gear cleanly with a bit of a wheel spin

:

New Daiichi points plate re-installed

Galfer break lines installed. Bottom one painted black but this one looks cool like that.

High-temp repaint on the headers/exhaust as I had to sand a bunch of rusty patches on the headers.

to be noted: Custom made paint-drying broomstick Vespa-tripod

That's it for now. It's a slowbuild but I do what I can.

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with his work but Maxwell Hazan has his bikes for sale in a gallery in Geneva and they are just amazing.

Cheers,
Sebastien

Maurice · « **Reply #178 on:** July 21, 2014, 10:27:46 AM »

Are you running offset sprockets? Otherwise you run the risk of wearing a hole in your cases with an X-ring chain, they're a smidge too wide... PO of my motor did that, luckily caught in time.

Standard chain is good enough.

Toustic · « **Reply #179 on:** July 21, 2014, 10:30:12 AM »

The front sprocket should but but can't remember now.
It was sold as a chain kit for CB550F so I didn't think too much into it

Toustic · « **Reply #180 on:** July 25, 2014, 06:28:04 AM »

Quote from: Toustic on July 21, 2014, 10:30:12 AM

The front sprocket should but but can't remember now.
It was sold as a chain kit for CB550F so I didn't think too much into it

No offset on the front sprocket indeed...
I am getting a 6mm spacer for the front sprocket from JT (hoping it's enough). The business that sold me the kit apologized for relying solely on JT's specs to label their kits (and didn't know that 530 X or O-rings had clearance issue on this bike), and has shipped a spacer to me yesterday. I'd use the stock chain kit, but the stock sprockets' teeth were eaten/slanted and the chain had too much play, so I figured I'd switch it all together. Was not familiar enough with the clearance issue to make the right decision at purchase $:-\$

Working on the stock seat now. If I have to use it to get the bike registered, might as well do it right and make it SESSY..
Grated seat foam anyone?

One question that I have, is if any of you uses the Gunson Colortune spark tool in order to fine-tune carbs adjustments?
Going to London this weekend and thought about picking one up, 2nd hand.
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?code=G4074
I was reading up about it and wondering if it was worth the purchase.

Same question about carbs-synch tools... Manometer or Vacuum gauges? I'm thinking it's not a big deal as they both generally get the job done, but since I have to order one online I want to make sure I get reliable stuff right off the bat.
(I was thinking vacuum because they are easier to get and looks more self-explanatory but thought I'd ask).

Thank you in advance.

Stev-o · « **Reply #181 on:** July 25, 2014, 06:44:15 AM »

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting. I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....

http://www.carbtune.com

Toustic · « **Reply #182 on:** July 25, 2014, 07:10:39 AM »

Quote from: Stev-o on July 25, 2014, 06:44:15 AM

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting. I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....

http://www.carbtune.com

Thanks Steve-o, that sounds good to me, and it looks like its one of the cheaper options of the bench test they did.
I like that.

I feel like the colortune could help me get the right combustion while taking the guessing game out of the way.
I'm all about efficient shortcuts

If you want to see what it does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hFUvQ4gaPc
Getting that flame nice and Blueish

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #183 on:** July 25, 2014, 01:27:59 PM »

I don't see how the Colortune can be useful, as there is no way to use it while the bike is under load. (going up hill, in fifth gear, at 60mph and half throttle, or 2 up in 3rd at 40 mph 1/3 throttle)

Toustic · « **Reply #184 on:** July 25, 2014, 01:44:08 PM »

I just need a tool that lets me adjust my carb settings without twisting my brains a hundred ways and thought this was a good means to an end.

Do you have a counter-proposal when it comes to a better tool that covers the job you described? I'd be very much interested in that...

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #185 on:** July 25, 2014, 01:57:13 PM »

Quote from: Toustic on July 25, 2014, 01:44:08 PM

I just need a tool that lets me adjust my carb settings without twisting my brains a hundred ways and thought this was a good means to an end.

Do you have a counter-proposal when it comes to a better tool that covers the job you described? I'd be very much interested in that...

dyno with an oxygen sensor...otherwise it's use all the knowledge you have or can beg/borrow/steal to test-tune-test-tune-test-tune...until you get it right. Starting to see why many here make such a big deal about the stock exhaust and airbox? Don't lose heart though. These bikes are still a hell of a lot of fun even when the tune-up is not right.

vfourfreak · « **Reply #186 on:** July 25, 2014, 02:33:10 PM »

Quote from: Stev-o on July 25, 2014, 06:44:15 AM

Never heard of the Gunson, looks interesting. I have Honda Factory vacuum sync gauges.

Morgan carbtune gets a lot of good reviews here, made in the UK....

http://www.carbtune.com

+1 on Morgan, I have a set for my V Fours, works a charm. (Made in Belfast)

I remember Gunson from the '70s, usefull for a car motor with a single carb, doubt that it could be of great use on a Honda 4, but I could be wrong.

Kev

Toustic · « **Reply #187 on:** July 29, 2014, 08:53:23 AM »

@seanbarney41

Thank you Sean.

Unfortunately Dyno runs are way expensive here, and only track runners (cars or bikes) have the resources to use one.

To be honest with you, the carbs were jetted for the pods and the Mac 4-1 while I was in LA., so that should be out of the way (hopefully). I have ordered the Morgan Carbtune, so now I have a tool for carb sync.

I was referring to the Colortune more in a "general" way... For example, I believe that my Virago misfires or doesn't fire at all under a certain RPM range, so the colortune could help me determine that on top of helping me get the mixture right.
________________________________

@vfourfreak

Got the Morgan and the Colortune. Figured "why not"

From what I've seen, people check one chamber/carb at a time, and adjust them individually. I've seen it done with 2, and 4, but most only have the one plug, and use it throughout the adjustment.
________________________________

The problem that I have now... Is that I changed all o-rings on the jets, as well as the one of the drain screw, and the fuel intake T's (or whatever they are named haha). I put it all back together, and unfortunately, the bike won't start anymore...

Trying to figure it out... but first, let's put a few images up.. otherwise it's not as much fun

Sorry... I realize that my pictures are pretty dark. I never use the flash
The previous o-rings were dried up, and hard.

All done

Importantly dumb question... Is there a factory order in the carbs, or can you just put either ones in a pair (as long as the choke is on the left side of the bike and the fuel fittings match between the two)??

I'm wondering where I went wrong... $:-\$

Also..

calj737 · « **Reply #188 on:** July 29, 2014, 10:16:09 AM »

"Is there a factory order in the carbs, or can you just put either ones in a pair??"

I'll give you a hint: ever seen a build thread where the parts per carb were organized into numbered containers so as not to mix them up? There's a reason for that... Two guesses as to why, and you're first guess doesn't count.

Can they be mixed as you have them, yes, but you've made your task far more difficult by mixing and matching components and sequence. And now it won't start...why? What are the symptoms you are experiencing now?

Toustic · « **Reply #189 on:** July 29, 2014, 12:42:55 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 29, 2014, 10:16:09 AM

"Is there a factory order in the carbs, or can you just put either ones in a pair??"

I'll give you a hint: ever seen a build thread where the parts per carb were organized into numbered containers so as not to mix them up? There's a reason for that... Two guesses as to why, and you're first guess doesn't count.

Can they be mixed as you have them, yes, but you've made your task far more difficult by mixing and matching components and sequence. And now it won't start...why? What are the symptoms you are experiencing now?

Damn...

Well.. Based on your tone, I realize that I may have gone wrong somewhere along the way

1st Guess: I believed it was for fear of misfitting due to elongated wear of the parts (when being reused as is, not replaced or modified)
2nd guess: Because there is a specific firing sequence for each cylinder, and the carb must be setup in a way that facilitates that (tho I really wouldn't know why that is or what the differences could be).

I honestly went with the "since they sell jet kits and rebuild kits (not per/carb specific), and people seem to find way to mix and match carbs, I didn't think it would be an issue... But it was obviously an uneducated educated guess

When it comes to the symptoms...
It acts as if there wasn't any spark in the chamber. I don't hear a pop at the exhaust when it turns over.
Not gonna lie, the whole float level eludes me a bit, especially when people talk about the actual adjustment part of the carb floats (and I've read a lot on the topic strangely..)

I guess I'll be "THAT" thread that people use to warn newbies about bad moves and mis-handlings...

HOWEVER, It took me about 3 weeks to figure out why she wasn't starting after the engine rebuild. So I have a bit of time till this stumble gets under my skin for good haha

I'm the opposite of OCD so half the mistakes I've made so far were due to my lack of organisation - Subsequently, you can tell that I'm very aware of it, which is half the battle

Toustic · « **Reply #190 on:** July 31, 2014, 05:35:40 AM »

I think my float levels are way off.

I tried to start it today. It turns over and sparks, pops... but doesn't keep rolling.
Tried for a couple of minutes.

I pulled out the carbs, and only one of them had a full bowl of gas #1. All the other ones had a few drops or were completely empty.

Well. Here I go again

calj737 · « **Reply #191 on:** July 31, 2014, 05:46:13 AM »

Your symptoms described sound more like a timing issue or ignition issue. Can you describe what changes you've made here or what service you've done to those components (points, electronic, coils, wires, etc)?

Toustic · « **Reply #192 on:** July 31, 2014, 06:43:20 AM »

Timing for 1-4 looks spot on.

And

Looks like 2-3 are as well..

Dammit

calj737 · « **Reply #193 on:** July 31, 2014, 08:20:53 AM »

But how about your cam? Do you have it rotated 90 degrees out, or perhaps the coils wired in reverse? Blue from ignition goes to left coil for 1/4 and Yellow to right for 2/3.

Toustic · « **Reply #194 on:** July 31, 2014, 08:27:39 AM »

I haven't touched any of the wiring since I last had it running smoothly (see previously posted video of the first start and kickstart). Just pulled the carbs and changed the plate. But since I got it timed since I put it back, I'm not sure what the hell I did wrong.

Thanks for your patience Cal, it's much appreciated

strynboen · « **Reply #195 on:** August 01, 2014, 07:56:33 AM »

its the flot adjusting...try to hook up a small "gas tank"..and test the flots /valvets vith no cap on.. on a bench test ....thek they close/ open at the right and same point

i have mine tested more times before build inn..to be 110% shure they have fuel ..but not overrunss vith gas...

Toustic · « **Reply #196 on:** August 02, 2014, 04:27:19 AM »

Quote from: strynboen on August 01, 2014, 07:56:33 AM

its the flot adjusting...try to hook up a small "gas tank"..and test the flots /valvets vith no cap on.. on a bench test ....thek they close/ open at the right and same point

i have mine tested more times before build inn..to be 110% shure they have fuel ..but not overrunss vith gas...

Thank you, man.
They are indeed all off, I have floats at 19mm, 23, and basically all 4 have different heights. Gonna work on this today.

Toustic · « **Reply #197 on:** August 02, 2014, 01:20:11 PM »

And it continues..

Adjusting my floats

Just enough angle so that they hit the pin.

And this is the first start after re-setting the floats to a 22mm all across the board. Points re-gapped
http://vid1319.photobucket.com/albums/t673/Toustic/20140802_205350_zps3fef3966.mp4

I have to check my ignition timing again.

And I just wanted to know if this is good enough compression to you guys

She's getting there tho
At least the first version of her

Cheers,
Seb

strynboen · « **Reply #198 on:** August 02, 2014, 01:44:41 PM »

..this test now are just a idea.

.of nothing total vrong...but a bit lov. i dont have the specifakions....later vhen it are run inn for some weeks..you get a pichture of the real vear in the engine..
there are different 3 vays to do it..dry..oiled kold or hot..and any kombinasion of this...i alvays do it cold and dry..but have the engine not run.after rebuild..it have to have some oil to build pressure up...
my littel 50 cc honda cd can not even start..vitaut a oil drip..after rebuild..it have not vaccum to suck the fuel aut of the caburettor...but a bit oil in the cylender make the tricks..after one start it..start easy evrytime...so a dry engine cant make komp or vaccum

Stev-o · « **Reply #199 on:** August 02, 2014, 05:05:25 PM »

Looking at compression numbers, it's more important that all four are within 10% of each other than how high the number is.

News:

Author Topic: Toustic's CB550F - A Swiss' first build (Read 32878 times)