Topic: ABS Brakes. You're thoughts.

[toytuff]

Interested to know what your thoughts are on ABS brakes for a motorcycle. Most manufactures add $500.00+ for the option.

I had ABS on a 2001 Goldwing I once owned. They were nice but the bike was heavy thus probably a good choice.

tt

[MCRider]

Interested to know what your thoughts are on ABS brakes for a motorcycle. Most manufactures add $500.00+ for the option.

I had ABS on a 2001 Goldwing I once owned. They were nice but the bike was heavy thus probably a good choice.

tt

ABS is also standard on many new bikes. It is the wave of the future. It feels different and so will meet resistance to change. But the guys who really ride, Sport Touring, Touring, IronButt riders, all swear by it.

Many mid-size bikes have it now. Soon, it will be ubiquitous, even 250cc bikes will have it, (I think the Kawasaki Ninja 300 has it now, hardly a heavyweight) and we'll move on to CVT transmissions.

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Features/RideReports/AntiLockBraking.aspx

Bmw will have it standard on all offerings. Where they tread others will follow.

[dave500]

if you cant ride with out it your in trouble.

[Greggo]

More sh1t that breaks...

[faux fiddy]

Interested to know what your thoughts are on ABS brakes for a motorcycle. Most manufactures add $500.00+ for the option.

I had ABS on a 2001 Goldwing I once owned. They were nice but the bike was heavy thus probably a good choice.

tt

ABS is also standard on many new bikes. It is the wave of the future. It feels different and so will meet resistance to change. But the guys who really ride, Sport Touring, Touring, IronButt riders, all swear by it.

Many mid-size bikes have it now. Soon, it will be ubiquitous, even 250cc bikes will have it, (I think the Kawasaki Ninja 300 has it now, hardly a heavyweight) and we'll move on to CVT transmissions.

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Features/RideReports/AntiLockBraking.aspx

Bmw will have it standard on all offerings. Where they tread others will follow.

I hear that what they are working on now, some day new riders will not even know what a shift or clutch lever is.

[mick7504]

if you cant ride with out it your in trouble.

My thoughts exactly.
And when something plays up with them, you'd better get the crocodile outta ya pocket cos it's gonna cost plenty.
They're about as handy as an ashtray on a motorbike. 

[simon#42]

in europe all new bikes over 125cc will have to be fitted with abs from jan 2016
is it a good idea , not sure . if your riding isn't up to much it will probably help but if you cant ride you will find another way to crash . would rather see safer riders than safer bikes .

[dave500]

one of our small trucks has abs,you cant drive it forwards at the dump and jerk the brakes to shake out stuck rubbish in the bin,it wont do it.

[faux fiddy]

one of our small trucks has abs,you cant drive it forwards at the dump and jerk the brakes to shake out stuck rubbish in the bin,it wont do it.

Well cram it in reverse, that should get it.

[KeithB]

if you cant ride with out it your in trouble.

You could say that about cars too. You could do OK with just a rear brake if you "know how to ride" ...yeh riiiiiight...
I have some bikes without and my FJR has ABS. I ride all my bikes just fine, thanks.
It's not something I "need"  but it's nice to have if things get pear shaped.
It may also be something that reflects positively on my insurance premium.
My recommendation is , for $500 extra, get it.
As for automatic transmissions, if that's what people want, fine by me.
Oh right , you are only a "real" biker if you don't have ABS or auto tranny.

[kghost]

Come on.....seriously?

Its a GOOD thing.

Think about it. Ever locked the front wheel on your bike?

Makes steering and staying upright much more difficult.

Most people will not need ABS 99.9% of the time. The .1% of the time they need it they will probably crash without it.

A lot of riders cannot in a panic situation apply the front brake to the limit. Lots of riders have gone past the limit locked the front wheel and tucked the front.

Run over something on the road under hard braking (Ice, Glycol, Oil, or even painted markings) you're gonna have a bad time.

70% of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle. ABS doesn't make you a better rider any more that seatbelt or airbags make a better driver.....its just there when you really need it

If I walked into the Dealer to buy a $15,000 bike.....and ABS was a $500 option...yeah I'd tick that box.

My little brother had a car turn in front of him last year on his Road King. A big ol' handful of panic lever later he's on the ground with a nasty break to his arm.

If he had not locked the front and continued steering he could have missed the car.

Is he a good rider? No. He's pretty average at best. I think he's a pretty good example of the average rider in the USA. He's been to rider training. He knows the Do's and Don'ts.

With ABS he'd have not been off work 4 months, or had to sleep in his recliner, and avoided a fight with insurance.

[Lost and Confused]

My 2001 BMW R1200C Phoenix has ABS, I don't like it. This model has far too many problems with the ABS. Seems if you fart too hard the things start flashing , and usually needs to go to the dealer for a dianogstic check. A lot of other riders just unhook them and ride without.



Bob

[MCRider]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say, it can be very controversial, approaching oil thread proportions.   

[LesterPiglet]

I've never had the opportunity to try it out so don't shoot me.
It's a bit like the (car) driving test in the UK. If you pass the test in an auto you can't drive a manual but if you take the test in a manual you can drive either.
I prefer people to know what to do without electronic aids. After you have mastered that then have what you like.

[kghost]

Power brakes, Disc brakes, Automatic transmissions, power steering, Windshield wipers, steel belted radial tyres.........

All improvements. Should we learn without them?

Seriously.....ABS Antilock Brake System......Its gonna help you right before the wheel locks up.

Most people can't or won't get close to that except by accident or while having same lol

[mick7504]

They're all good points Tim although I've always believed in getting back to basics and then go from there.

It's how I look at things and do things mate.
Stubborn, old fashioned, set in my ways.
All of the above. 

What's this traction control that's another option on cars.
I'd have an EH Holden and a Honda 4 any day.

That's how we learnt without all of this other stuff and I really cannot understand why it's necessary.
But that's just me. 

[kghost]

Its not a necessity.

Of course neither is a Helmet or a seat belt.

There is a finite limit to the amount of traction a tyre has.........

Even the big boys get it wrong occasionally.

Personally I would probably push a lot harder with ABS lol

[mick7504]

Tim, your about to make me notch up 2K posts mate so it's all your fault. 
It's got nothin to do with me. 

But you're right.
It isn't a necessity but I suppose it's a personal preference for a better way to put it.

I think what made me draw the line with this electronic BS was when the ol' mate who use to be a fitter for Mack Trucks called into work for a cold beer one Saturday arvo on his way back from a call out and showed me his tool box "Fashion Accessory"
It was a bloody Laptop on the front seat of his Service Truck.

I thought myself, I don't mind this and I don't mind that, but when comes to this, fcuk that.

If you can't fix it with a piece of fencing wire and a screwdriver, you're in the sh1t. 

[kghost]

Tim, your about to make me notch up 2K posts mate so it's all your fault. 
It's got nothin to do with me. 

But you're right.
It isn't a necessity but I suppose it's a personal preference for a better way to put it.

I think what made me draw the line with this electronic BS was when the ol' mate who use to be a fitter for Mack Trucks called into work for a cold beer one Saturday arvo on his way back from a call out and showed me his tool box "Fashion Accessory"
It was a bloody Laptop on the front seat of his Service Truck.

I thought myself, I don't mind this and I don't mind that, but when comes to this, fcuk that.

If you can't fix it with a piece of fencing wire and a screwdriver, you're in the sh1t. 

Well.....its tough to embrace technology sometimes but my 73 yr old mother uses Texts, Skype and Facebook.

Personally I think the ease of use on some stuff is amazing.

I had the ol' laptop plugged into the car's OBD II the other day........

Intermittent P0171/P0174 code.....Short term Left/Right bank lean

couple tweaks later and alls good. Beats the hell out of swapping parts to troubleshoot.

[mick7504]

Fault Codes are good if there is a solution to address them.

[azuredesign]

I alo have them on 2 Bmw bikes from the mid and late 90s, and have not had any problem to date. It has not been difficult to maintain as the front and rears are not linked on either bike. Of course having now said so, I am screwed.

[HondanutRider]

According to my memory of articles from some time ago that I read, extensive testing in simulated situations of wet, slippery road surfaces using ABS -equipped motorcycles resulted in the following:

Three classes of rider experiences were asked to stop quickly and safely as possible: race-track very experienced, street rider with many year's experience, and novice rider with less than a year.  The results without ABS were staggered and varied in the order of experience listed - the shortest stopping was by the person who was essentially a professional, with the least experienced often crashing on the very slick surface.  With ABS, all levels of riders stopped safely and ALL were stopping in about the same distance.  The distance stopped by all with ABS was a little more than the first rider did without ABS, but was equal or better than what the street rider could do without ABS - and didn't result in crashes.

Most "panic" stops are done without foresight, and in my opinion it takes a very controlled individual to not over-react in pulling in the binders.  Add to that some less than optimum traction and you likely have a crash.

As an criticism of ABS, in a leaned condition (i.e. when cornering) traditional ABS can still loose traction.  However, BMW is developing accurate lean detectors and are coupling that with ABS and traction control systems so that even when running a tight turn brakes can be applied to stop without a crash.

[scrapvalue]

What happens when all you know is using ABS and they fail?

LEARN TO RIDE!  And more importantly, learn to STOP!

[ofreen]

Power brakes, Disc brakes, Automatic transmissions, power steering, Windshield wipers, steel belted radial tyres.........

All improvements. Should we learn without them?

Seriously.....ABS Antilock Brake System......Its gonna help you right before the wheel locks up.

Most people can't or won't get close to that except by accident or while having same lol

Looks like you are talking about cars there.  BMW tried power assisted brakes on motorcycles.  It was a flop, though they stubbornly stuck with it for longer than they should have in typical BMW fashion.  Automatic transmissions are an improvement?  They are if you are towing boats or stuck in stop and go traffic all the time.  But they are more likely to need expensive repairs.  Most of my vehicles have standard transmissions, but a few have had automatics.  The only ones that ever needed repairs were the automatics.  Are those of us who see no need for automatic transmissions, CVTs or DCTs on motorcycles Luddites, or do we just prefer to control the machine ourselves rather than letting some algorithm do it?
 
As for ABS, not all ABS systems are created equal.  There isn’t much comparison between what is possible with ABS now over what was available 10 years ago.  Processing power has allowed cycling rates to increase greatly, increasing rate of pulsing in the brake system, and improving stopping performance.  But all ABS systems reduce feel and get between the rider and the feel for the tire’s contact patch.  All ABS systems add expense, complexity, and weight to whatever they are added to.  They are expensive to fix when they go bad, bike or car.  It was 800 bucks to replace the ABS module in our Explorer a few years ago.  If you have a BMW bike, you are looking at a $2000+ repair for a busted module, and you’ll get no sympathy from BMW if the bike is out of warranty.
 
The problem with brakes on bikes isn’t whether or not it has ABS.  The problem is many (most?) riders never learn to use their brakes to anywhere near the brake system’s potential.  This means that even on bikes with ABS,  they won’t brake hard enough to actuate the ABS.
 
I can accept the ABS on cars (we don't have much choice in a newer car, do we) although a little grudgingly.  But I hate when the pulsing starts and I can no longer feel what the tires are doing.  But my wife doesn’t really understand such subtleties as threshold braking and feeling for impending lock up, even though I’ve tried to teach her.  It is probably the same for most people, so a system that allows you to just dynamite the brakes and hope for the best is going to be the future all right.
 
I figured it up a while back, and I realized I am approaching 400,000 miles on bikes in my riding career that started when I was 11.  Not as many as some, but still not an insignificant number.  In all the years and miles and close calls (and 2 major crashes caused by dumbass moves) I can’t think of a time when ABS would have made a bit of difference.  But the way I look at it, if somebody wants it, they should have it.  But I prefer to have a choice in the matter.  I can embrace new technology when it does what I want it to.  ABS on bikes isn’t in that category.

[kghost]

What happens when all you know is using ABS and they fail?

LEARN TO RIDE!  And more importantly, learn to STOP!

The same thing that happens when there's no ABS. They Crash.

As Hondanutrider said.....there are some good studies that show what happens.

The problem with brakes on bikes isn’t whether or not it has ABS.  The problem is many (most?) riders never learn to use their brakes to anywhere near the brake system’s potential.  This means that even on bikes with ABS,  they won’t brake hard enough to actuate the ABS.

As I said....when they do brake hard enough to actuate the ABS....they probably will crash without it.

As for ABS, not all ABS systems are created equal.  There isn’t much comparison between what is possible with ABS now over what was available 10 years ago.  Processing power has allowed cycling rates to increase greatly, increasing rate of pulsing in the brake system, and improving stopping performance.  But all ABS systems reduce feel and get between the rider and the feel for the tire’s contact patch.  All ABS systems add expense, complexity, and weight to whatever they are added to.  They are expensive to fix when they go bad, bike or car.  It was 800 bucks to replace the ABS module in our Explorer a few years ago.  If you have a BMW bike, you are looking at a $2000+ repair for a busted module, and you’ll get no sympathy from BMW if the bike is out of warranty.

Yeah the MotoGP guys and other racers are really going slower due to all that pulsing from the ABS.

ABS as stated has improved dramatically over the years.

I always love it when someone whips out the $2000 repair bill for their BMW......Hell, everything is expensive on a BMW! Knock one over and find out what the plastic costs lol.

  But my wife doesn’t really understand such subtleties as threshold braking and feeling for impending lock up, even though I’ve tried to teach her.  It is probably the same for most people, so a system that allows you to just dynamite the brakes and hope for the best is going to be the future all right.
 

As you stated, most bike riders don't understand Threshold braking and impending lockup either.

They also don't understand off camber corners, decreasing radius corners, suspension compression/rebound's effect on traction etc.

ABS

Does it add cost?

Yes. Idiot proofing always does. But it improves our insurance bill, lowers health costs and improves safety.

Does it add complexity?

Yes. But so does fuel injection and a host of other improvements.

Does it add weight?

No not really. Not as much as McDonalds. A switch to AGM and other batteries over lead acid probably offsets the effect

Does it Pulse?

Older systems did. New systems not so much. If its pulsing it would be locked without it.

Are they unreliable?

No. In fact their pretty damn reliable. Anything Mechanical can break....Lack of maintenance and P.O's are scarier that an ABS failing

Its like the old saying: You never have a problem until you have a problem....then you have a problem