Author Topic: Hondaman ignition question  (Read 2705 times)

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Offline thirsty 1

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Hondaman ignition question
« on: March 01, 2014, 06:04:09 PM »
So I have a quick question for those of you with a Hondaman ignition box. I lost the original papers over the winter and am assuming the following as far as hooking it up.

Yellow to yellow, blue to blue, green goes to the points plate with the condensers disconnected, black is battery positive, and that leaves the purple and orange wires for the coils.

So the question is which wire is for 1-4 and 2-3. Or do I have it all miffed up?

Thanks
Thirsty

Oh, I PM'ed Hondaman earlier but he must be busy. 







73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2014, 07:46:48 PM »
The wire marked 'Left Coil-' on the H.M. unit goes to the Blue wire from/to the coils, which is cyl. 1 and 4. 'Right Coil -' on the unit will then go to Yellow wire to coil 2 and 3. :)
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 08:15:29 PM »
Wow! That's one of the very first schematics, when I forgot to put the Org and Vio colors on those wires. I thought those were all gone by now?

Here's a "fixed" one for ya!

See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline thirsty 1

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 10:05:14 PM »
Gracias Amigo
73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0

Offline Bowswell

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 05:38:23 AM »
      Yellow to yellow, blue to blue, green goes to the points plate with the condensers disconnected, black is battery positive, and that leaves the purple and orange wires for the coils.


I never disconnected condensers...????

Offline thirsty 1

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 08:58:05 AM »
      Yellow to yellow, blue to blue, green goes to the points plate with the condensers disconnected, black is battery positive, and that leaves the purple and orange wires for the coils.


I never disconnected condensers...????


I'm hooking mine back up.

According to that first dia. it has the condensers unhooked.

Thanks again guys!
73' CL125, 75' CB400F, 16' KTM 1190R, 05' KTM 525EXC

75' CB400F  -  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=127295.0

My 79 CB750F for fun   ----   http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=19923.0

Offline alacrity

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 10:26:53 PM »
My condensers are connected... It all works fine. ...


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I recently restored and sold a 77 cb750f, and am nearly finished with a (former basket case) cb750k5.  This is a place to share, learn and enjoy.  I am grateful to and for 99+% of this site's membership.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 11:18:33 PM »
The "Condensors Question" was finally settled in 2009, after we all did lots of testing. The box will run either way, but we found that since so many of the spark advancers are worn on their inside diameters of the points cam, and/or the springs are/were weak from age, that [re]connecting the condensors stopped an intermittent 'weak spark' situation between 1500-2000 RPM on some bikes. The worst ones were the CB350/360 and the CB500/550, which have weak springs to begin with, and others with hi-mileage springs acted similarly.

What is happening is this: the weak springs or loose points cam "jitter" a little bit when the cam begins the advance off idle. At this stage, the maximum looseness is available to let it wiggle a little, and it physically bounces back a tiny bit from the spring tension of the points being "hit", until the weights pull it to full advance and mechanically lock the cam still again. This bounce is normally displayed in the mechanical points as arcing, so the coils don't discharge all the way (on points alone), making an acceptable spark. But, the MUCH faster transistors DO make the coils fire all the way, but then they jitter closes the points again too soon, snuffing out the spark, then they jitter open again, and another, weaker spark also occurs. This phenomenon is sometimes known as "spark jitter" or "timing jitter".

(Sorry, but that's the only way I know to describe it...).

At any rate, the result is: on these bikes, there was a perceptible stumble just off idle without the Box connected, and it got worse when the Box was added. Connecting the condensors along with the Box solved it at first, but I wasn't happy with just masking the problem. A more complete correction is: strengthen the springs a bit (like, cut off 1/2 turn and bend the ends of the coil out to install them again) because they have become too weak from years of annealing heat cycles. Or, get a less-worn spark advancer, and keep it greased next time? Many of them were not cared for quite this well...

The way to test yours, if you suspect this, is: using a good timing light and a warmed up engine, shine the timing light on the advance marks and rev the engine up until it goes to full advance. Then slowly back it down until it begins to lose that full advance, and note that RPM. Then slowly increase the speed again and see if it reaches full advance at the same speed. If it advances slower than it retards, that's good: it should also reach full advance NO SOONER than 2500 RPM. If yours hits full advance before about 2250 RPM, the springs are just too soft. This causes the intake valve(s) to spit back into the carb throats, which disturbs the flow and causes all sorts of symptoms, ranging from fouled plugs to poor low-speed power.

In general, most of the springs on bikes over 15k miles are too soft now. Once annealed, they have settled into their "new mode" and will stay there, but need to be tightened up a little. If you slow down this advance curve this way, you'll likely find the bike to have more torque when pulling away from a stop, as the slower curve also matches the ethanol burn rate we see in our fuels today. It also won't hurt if you have no-ethanol gas, because modern fuels burn slower than our old ones did.

;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline alacrity

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Re: Hondaman ignition question
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 11:37:44 PM »
i know what I'll be doing tomorrow evening...

I recently restored and sold a 77 cb750f, and am nearly finished with a (former basket case) cb750k5.  This is a place to share, learn and enjoy.  I am grateful to and for 99+% of this site's membership.