Author Topic: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!  (Read 23612 times)

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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 07:56:10 PM »
I don't think the bike is running on all 4 cylinders.  Find which cylinder by spraying exhaust header pipes  with water...the pipe that doesn't instantly vaporize the water goes to the cylinder that is not firing.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline TwoTired

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2014, 08:50:29 PM »
The 78 tank has a filter which inserts into the bung that the fuel tap is mounted upon.  It can be a real b!tch to remove, and even harder to remove it intact, particularly if cemented in with rust.  That filter works very well when undamaged, though.  However, I have a feeling the builder bent you over the workbench and took liberties with many of the details needing to be addressed on this bike.

I'm not very impressed with your builder.  But, it seems you specified a "look" and expected him to sort out all the changes from stock, as well as the adjustment changes required to make these parts function well together.  I think you got an assembler, rather than a mechanic.
Honda had a team of engineers and technicians contributing 1000's of man hours into making a well rounded and reliable street bike.  Changing the looks toward that of a race bike, means an equivalent amount of man hours to make it work nearly as well at the factory techs did.  Unlikely you paid him enough to do that, even if he had that capacity.  But of course, I'm just guessing.

This is just to give you a flavor of what you can look forward to as far as a learning curve is concerned.  The only functional "recipe" for a bike that behaves as it should is the factory specs., which would be the most direct and easiest way to make the bike imminently streetable.

With no tools, no place to work, and no real knowledge of what you have or how it is supposed to work, you are pushing a rather large rock up a steep hill.  Yes, it is doable, with persistence, patience and perseverance.

Easier to modify something that already works, than to cajole a crude assemblage of parts into a well rounded and balanced machine.

I did listen to the video.
You really should get the Honda shop manual with supplements.  Yes, you can still drag the answers from us, once you learn the correct questions to ask.  It will at least tell you where the idle speed adjust knob is located.   ;D

I question if all cylinders are firing.  Check for cold(er) head pipes.  They can tell you if all the jugs are contributing something.
I don't really care if you paid someone else to do a tune up.  Until you do the 3K schedule yourself, you will never know if it was performed properly and completely.

Drain each carb bowl, catch the drainage, and examine for sediment.  If found, you must locate the source and fix that.  Clean carbs won't stay that way with a constant source of crud.
With the pods and pipe, you WILL have to learn what the pilot jet, main jet, and slide needles are set to. (Unless you trust your builder to have made these corrections for you.)

Got a vacuum balance apparatus?  You are going to need one with all the carb adjustments coming in the near future.  Also, you will need access to either a Dynamometer, or a test track to make full power acceleration runs.  This and learning to read spark plugs will help you find the correct main jet for your mods.  You wanted a race bike?  They just don't come into being with simply an assemblage of parts.  They are tweaked many times over.

It can be a fun and highly educational hobby, or a living nightmare.  Either way, it will interfere with your desire to "just go for a ride".  Be prepared.

If this bike is to be your "main ride", you will learn to hate it in very short order, I expect.  Or, get very smart and savvy about it, very quickly.

Good luck!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 09:05:32 PM »
I think this bike has been so badly executed by the "Builder"::) that you need to just start over from square one.  Cleaning the tank is a start...but are you saying the tank has a liner in it?  Is it failing....putting a another liner kit in is not going to solve anything unless it is done 100% correctly.  I don't know that you have the skill set or the facilities to do this properly.   Why is the liner there in the first place?  If the tank is solid there is absolutely no reason to have a liner.  Get rid if the inline fuel filter and get the proper petcock filter and keep your tank clean and you should not have any issues.  Inline filters are for lazy people who can't be bothered to keep their tank clean.  Get the stock airbox back on and a proper exhaust system...it will be faster and cheaper in the long run for getting this bike to run properly.  Again I don't know that you have the skill set to get it to run properly with those #$%*ty pods and hacked up exhaust.  Do you have a detailed list of what the "Builder" ::) did and what parts were installed/provided?  Does it still have the original points ignition or an after market electronic kit?  If you have gas leaking from the carbs it tells me the needle valves or float level needs attention.   Before you go ordering carb rebuild kits get yours apart so you know what you have to start with.  The brass parts don't wear out that much and often the original stock stuff is better than aftermarket rebuild kits.  You need to get back to a known baseline with jetting, needle position, mixture screw settings, timing, etc.  Right now it seems things may be so fuked up that all you will be doing is chasing your tail trying one thing after another.   You need to go on a steep learning curve cause paying somebody else to do this work is going to cost way more than the bike will ever be worth.  If you want to run one of these old bikes you need to be able to maintain/repair it yourself or it will break the bank and be in the shop half the time.  You didn't think owning an old "Cafe Racer" was going to be easy did you? ;) ;D
    Just from the video you posted I had to wonder "what the fuk did the "Builder" do to warrant a large payment from you.  Sorry about the tough love but that guy needs his ass kicked. ;D

« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:16:08 PM by srust58 »

Offline dave500

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2014, 11:03:03 PM »
"Thanks. I went to an auto parts store today but couldn't find a thin walled 18mm spark plug socket so I went to a Honda dealership and asked the parts department who told me they cannot order me any tools unless its for the use of the dealership"

don't go there again,its only a #$%*ing spark plug socket!i have genuine Honda service tools ive bought.

Offline Koonendez

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2014, 06:21:11 AM »
Seanbarney41: I will check the heat of the exhausts on each cylinder this afternoon. Thanks

Twotired: Thanks first of all for chiming in as I very much appreciate your knowledge and experience with these bikes. I will be pulling the tank and inspecting for damage and rust and will post pictures of the inside the best I can. I understand fully the mountain I have to climb, but I am willing to do what it takes no matter the difficulties that lie ahead. I appreciate your concern, but I assure you I am up for the challenge. I have a Clymer manual and will begin the 3K tune-up along with tank inspection and carb  inspection. I will get you guys carb info as soon as I can tear into them and post pictures up. Is there a way to drain the carbs with them in tact on the bike? Or do I completely remove the carbs before I can drain them individually to check for sediment? No access to dyno or test track, but not exactly looking to build a race bike. Please understand that because I put clip-ons and rearsets doesn't mean I'm trying to build a rocket here. The original rearset position wasn't any good for me as I rode my friends bone stock 550 and had trouble with my feet when it came to shifting. And yes, I'm sorry but I personally didn't like the style of the stock handle bars. This is my main mode of transportation during warm months so yes, I expect to tackle this as fast as I can, but with care and precision.

srust58: The tank is not lined, I simply assumed that I would check for any serious issues and if needed would line the tank or treat it with one of the many options available. I will remove the inline filter once I'm comfortable with the condition of the tank although I have heard two sides to the story about inline fuel filters on this board. I have most of the stock airbox components still(this was one of the decisions the "assembler" took upon himself to modify without discussion) and will purchase the rest of the necessary components to get it back to stock. The concern I have is that my stock airbox components are for the 78, but my carbs are off a 76 and my intake manifold off a 75. Hopefully there won't be any issues otherwise I will look for a stock airbox for a 74-76 550. I'll also look into an affordable exhaust system, but I wonder if any necessary parts were shaved off where the exhaust would be bolted up against the frame. It is still running on points. The leak is a first since I've been riding it for about two weeks and will pull carbs anyhow to see what's going on in there.

dave500: Are you suggesting I try another Honda dealership?

Guys, I appreciate all the feedback. I know there is a ton of work to do and I hope I am not coming across like some young guy who expects to turn a few screws here and there and be done with this. By no means did I ever think this was going to a turn key project even after the assembly work was done. I bought this bike, over the 1000s of motorcycle selections available for a reason. I consider myself a young person and appreciate these bikes very much. You don't need to drill into me the negativity because I'm well aware these bikes will have issues. I bought this bike to have fun and enjoy them for what they are. Even the work that gets involved in owning them. This forum is supposed to be a support for me, not a reminder that I bought an old bike and that everything is going to suck from here. If you want to help me get this girl running the way she outta be (stock or modified), then please chime in and ask me the right questions. I will do everything I can to take photos, videos, to help you guys get the answers to help me build her back up. Thanks in advance to everyone sharing their knowledge with me
'78 Honda CB550K

Offline Maurice

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2014, 06:42:17 AM »
It's your bike man. Hang in there, there is no reason you can't make it run decent with the current setup. Maybe not "as Honda intended" but pretty darn good. You will need some patience though.

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but read the carb FAQ, very useful.

I second the opinion that it sounds like you're running on 2 or 3 cylinders. Could be carb related, but make sure you have spark on all plugs also. Set static timing and make sure advancer mechanism is clean and springs do their job. I guess when you do the 3K maintenance you'll be looking at that.

Most important: take horizontal videos :D I thought the airplane reflection moving across the tach glass was cool, nice.

Good luck.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2014, 06:54:19 AM »
Hang in there, man!  Nothing but learning curve, it will all make sense in the end.

Not sure what size plug wrench you need, but sometimes it is easier to shop on eebay or places like http://www.cb750supply.com/products/9/tools than to chase stuff locally.

Is 550 using same sized plugs as 750?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 06:55:57 AM by 70CB750 »
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Online calj737

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2014, 07:03:27 AM »
Koon - you can drain the carbs while on the bike. Beneath each carb, the bowl should  have a drain screw. As TT suggested, open that and catch all the gas you can into a pail and examine it. Do this separately to help you identify which carb in particular may be having problems.

Before you go too far, some other really good recommendation was to start and run the bike while keeping the RPMs up. Squirt each exhaust pipe near the motor to ID any cold cylinder. Make note of that and compare to carb drain results. Also, while bike is running, spray the rubber boots between the carbs and engine, nearer the carb side (inlet) to see if spraying some fluid changes the RPMs. If so, you have a vacuum leak there. That can be solved possibly by simply tightening the clamp screw. It may become necessary for you to refurbish or purchase new boots if yours are deteriorated.

Another thing I learned recently, clamps between the years 74-76 and 77-78 are different and the 77-78 clamps were recommended to me for a non-stock config I am running. May be an issue for you too.

This forum site has links to manuals and addendums that you can download easily to augment your Clymer manual. Here's a link to an exceptional thread on an absolutely factory restoration by SohRon. Some items may be different from yours, but the concepts and processes are very similar. Plus the pictures and documentation is far better than any manual ever produced.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=86697.0

Sometimes posts are "tone deaf", so don't get too put off. There's tons of people here to help you, despite style or design choices. TT, Dave, Stev-o are exceptionally knowledgable and hugely nice folks. Provide as much detail whenever you can, add some detail pictures as you describe your issues, and the resolution will come very quickly.

There is nothing on this bike you can't do yourself with some patience, planing and a few special tools. Everything you need is available and the sources for that can be found or directed to by this forum.

Just understand: everything will take 2x longer than you think it should the first time. You'll end up becoming a carb expert soon, because you'll be digging into those things constantly. And repeatedly. Don't be afraid, just take pictures, ask questions, and keep everything organized and separated by carb origin. Pre-read a section of the manual in advance, ask a few questions, read a few threads, then dig in. You'll be much less intimidated with the task.

There's no doubt you'll get this thing running well. Without documentation on what your builder did, some of it will be simply fact-finding to get a baseline. Hang in there, in a few weeks, this thing will run, run much better, and you'll be able to tackle these tasks in a sensible sequence.

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Offline flatlander

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2014, 07:12:49 AM »
it's great that you're up for the job. these bikes are great and even just a little care will pay off big time. eventually you will get to know it like no other, and it will become truly your own.

i've got a friend who went through the same recently. called me with all sorts of questions, day and night. suff like this:
his battery didn't charge properly and he had idle issues. got stranded at night. my phone rings "sorry man the thing died at a red light and now won't start any more. might need a push but now i have this other problem also, the lights went out and won't come on again so probably can't ride it home in the dark?" ;)

he also felt he was let down by the guy who he bought it off. then he started to sort things out himself, found a guy to help him and learn from and never looked back. (that guy is not me - he got a beemer which i'm not familiar with in details although i know what a dead battery means)

Offline Stev-o

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2014, 07:31:19 AM »


Before you go too far, some other really good recommendation was to start and run the bike while keeping the RPMs up. Squirt each exhaust pipe near the motor to ID any cold cylinder.


This is a real good idea, Cal.  If the bike is only running on 3 cylinders, it could be a simple fix such as a fouled plug or bad cap.

Confirm all head pipes get hot after running for 3 min and report back.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2014, 08:47:09 AM »
I just bought a standard 18mm plug socket at Sears for my 750 and it fit fine....is the clearance tighter on the 550 so this will not work?

Nothing wrong with the points ignition but it's just one of the things we need to know to help you.  It would help if you had a list of what parts that where put into it.  Some aftermarket parts have a questionable reputation so it's nice to know what you are working with.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:57:21 AM by srust58 »

Offline Koonendez

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2014, 08:49:30 AM »
Awesome. Thanks again I actually don't mind the investigation work that lies ahead so much. It's not being able to ride that's an issue


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Offline Koonendez

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2014, 08:50:53 AM »
Srust: I would love to know because it's been said over and over that it needs to be a thin walled socket which is why I've been careful not to buy any 18mm socket


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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2014, 09:07:22 AM »
Srust: I would love to know because it's been said over and over that it needs to be a thin walled socket which is why I've been careful not to buy any 18mm socket


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I take it that you don't have the socket that comes with the bike.  They are basically a cheaply made thin walled socket about 5-6 inches long with a hole through the side on one end that you can stick a screwdriver through to get leverage.  The only reason I needed the Sears socket is that my bike had sat for 25 years and I needed a big breaker bar on the socket to get the plugs out. On the #2 plug I needed a two foot breaker bar and just about tipped the bike over off the centerstand.  Not for the faint of heart. ;D  Since then all I have needed was the one the bike came with.  I would try a vintage bike shop or they are always available on Ebay. 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 09:13:34 AM by srust58 »

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2014, 09:21:20 AM »
Go get yourself the cheapest socket you can find, the cheaper the better. The cheap ones are real thin and crappy for anything else BESIDES pulling the plugs. They are nice for that. If it needs some tweaking then file it with a hand file. Basic tools take more time but you can still do the job.

The occasional overflow you get is a pretty good sign you have some crud in your tank. The bike sat and everything settled then you started riding and stirred it up well. The jets in your carbs are tiny, a pilot jet is .040", those tiny grains of rust will clog them right up. Get yourself The Works toilet bowl cleaner for 3$, remove your petcock so it doesn't get eaten, plug the hole with a rubber stopper and shake away. It has a really high over the counter acid content that will eat the rust right up

The carbs are really very simple. Look over build threads and posts using the left hand search bar. There is only 4 things inside you can change, then a mixture screw outside. You gotta know where you are starting. My bet is the guy put some huge jets in the thing to compensate for the pods and that is why you don't need choke to start it up.
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Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2014, 09:26:29 AM »
Another thing too- That exhaust could always be traded with another member on the board, or you could cut/remove the baffle on there and get a muffler with a bend and bolt that in to place.
https://www.denniskirk.com/emgo/right-side-universal-bmw-replica-muffler.p4401337.prd/4401337.sku

The inlet isn't sized right but it is an idea of what I mean. You can search vendors for them.

The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline Koonendez

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2014, 09:30:24 AM »
Bj: thanks I'll check out the eBay links posted above and get a socket ASAP. As for the toilet bowl cleaner do I need to dilute the mix or just empty a full bottle and get shaking? I assume mixing in some cheap nuts and bolts inside helps as an abrasive.

Good news and bad news guys...cranked her over and warmed up the exhausts. Here is the culprit that isn't heating up. Don't know cylinder numbers yet so maybe someone can help me



Also I found where the leak is finally starting here is the shot



Also here's a shot of my headers and I was assuming the tape or whatever he used is probably not the best solution but let me know your thoughts




Here is the inside of my tank




Hopefully this will give you guys a starting point to point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance

Koon


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Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2014, 09:39:53 AM »
Safety Tip- Put your overflow hoses on the bowls. Thats what the nipples are for on the bottom of the bowls. Rout the hoses out near the swingarm to the right side so gas isn't dribbling and pooling on your engine

Go to autozone and get windshield washer tubing. Cheap, effective and flexible. It doesn't need to be fuel resistant, it won't have a lot of fuel going thru it, it shouldn't have any
The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2014, 09:45:21 AM »
That tape was just used for holding the collets in place during assembly, not a problem.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2014, 11:33:44 AM »
That's about as clean a tank as I have seen. Before you put anything in it (and I used The Works when I did my tank, but I had 25 years of evaporating fuel in mine) remove the petcock and the internal screen screen filter and see what it looks like.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2014, 12:09:36 PM »
From what I can see that tank looks good.  If the rest of it looks that good just clean out any sediment and move on.  Get a little light in there and check for the filter on the petcock and replace if needed.

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2014, 12:27:53 PM »
Koon - when seated on the bike looking forward, the cylinders are numbered 1-4 from your left to right. In fact, your spark plug wires have their numbers on them. That's exhaust number 4, and carb #3 that's leaking.

While the bike is idling, use the handle of a screwdriver and rap the carb body. That may help dislodge and debris that is causing the float to stick open and overflow. It may also get #4 pipe to get hot (If that picture was for reference of a cold header, or just for the tape issue).

The exhaust collar has three important pieces: that finned collar is the flange. Between it and the actual pipe are two "shims" that help seal the exhaust against the exhaust gasket. The gasket is interior to the exhaust port, on the head, and it's a crush copper gasket. You may see these if you ever remove the exhaust, but that's not necessary now.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline flatlander

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2014, 12:37:46 PM »
what's also helped me in the past to dislodge stubborn crap making the floats stick:
close the petcock and run the engine until it stops, sucking the carbs dry.  if that doesn't help do it again then tap on the carb bodies as calj737 says. don't be too soft on them but use something that doesn't hurt them. i used a lage monkeywrench wrapped in a towel.

if you want to see schematics of all the parts, go to cmsnl.com. they are expensive for parts but looking at the diagrammes is free.

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2014, 01:08:18 PM »
yes... cms ate costy but the parts are kvality..and often orginal parts... like them better then david s...
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline Koonendez

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Re: CB550 - Issues for beginning rider - Help please!
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2014, 01:29:00 PM »
Awesome thanks for the tips. I will try sucking carbs dry tomorrow and give them a tap as well just to be cautious. If I get any luck with with heat on the 4th exhaust ill report back. Then I'll proceed to draining tank and checking on the condition of the petcock. Here is a picture of my inline fuel filter



Hoping petcock filter just needs to be cleaned and a quick treatment of the tank and hopefully I can remove the inline fuel filter. Just worried about some small rust debris clogging carbs


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