Topic: 550F/K Free Bird The FINAL STRETCH mark

[straat-toe]

Ok. I have installed my new clutch. New ex valves arrived yesterday and Honda just informed me that my new valve washers and tappet cover rubbers have arrived. I also picked up my repaired tappet cover. Can you feel it?! I can almost hear the old girl firing up! Oh and there is another almost compl. Stock 550f looking for a loving home where restoration is the only option.

[straat-toe]

Ok so its been too long. Quick update. I  finished rebuilding the engine and I got her in. I fitted duel discs using a GW MC. She stops nicely . And of course if she stops that means that she goes! I haven't been riding her as much as I should because the charging system seems knackered.  Looks like the stator has gone and Im going to have to get it rewired. It's never ending but I'm game for it. I also put new bars on and fed the control wires through them to clean it up . onwards and upwards!

[Blackfin5]

Little late to this party, but I have no recollection of that pin.  I can't remember if I took assembly #37 apart or not.  That's a fairly obscure little pin.  I know I checked and lubed the roller bearings in part #15 on the end of the main shaft.  Oh well, roll the dice.

Nice engine build by the way.

[straat-toe]

Hi Blackfin. It was the pin that goes into the secondary oilpump that lubes the tranny. Problems been fixed now therea a few more. Did your friends in SA get their 550s?

[Blackfin5]

Actually, I found a 78 550 in Atlanta and a 77 in Kentucky.  My Capetown buddies arrive here on Jan 15th.  Probably going to SAF in a container late Feb.

[straat-toe]

So this is a update on the 550. I had the Stator rewired a while back.

When I took it out for its first ride the main fuse kept popping. So it looks like the problem it's a combination of corroded contacts a Red wire with to many bonds and bad solder on it and a fuse block that has seen to much action and melted fuses. So here is a quick photo update of the steps I took.

New blade type fuse box mounted on the inner fender. New main wiring, I managed to locate a Auto electrical supplier in Cape Town that stocks blocks and terminals very close to the original Hitachi items, which is a bonus. And I used split corrugated pipe for the loom. Because I'm sure I will be replacing more wiring in the winter. First time doing it this way so I will perfect the technique still and clean it up a bit more. I will be testing the new wiring and fuse box tonight.

Cheers.

[straat-toe]

Ok, So what's been happening.
 My main fuse is still blowing after rewiring the live red wire and installing a new fuse box and cleaning all Terminals.....If I take the black live out it's fine, as soon as reconnect one of them it blows again.

So I've ordered some terminals and the like from Cycle Terminals and I'll be refreshing the whole black circuit once it arrives.

Quick thought...could bad engine earth connection cause the main fuse to blow. And I mean it really blows. As soon as the key turns it pops!

 

[calj737]

looking back thru, you re-wired and ran your controls through the bars. I'd start first with disconnecting the power feeds and taking voltage/continuity tests at every powered circuit. Remove the fuses, check continuity for RED from KEY to battery POS. with key harness unplugged, use a jumper to RED on the key, then key ON, then test BLACK, BRWN, and BRW/WHT for voltage at the key (on the soldered backside). Then reconnect the harness plug for the KEY and retest each circuit for voltage before adding the fuses back in.

You've got something wrong either in the harness, or possibly in the stator output wiring (possibly a mixed ground/power wire). If you're popping the main fuse instantly, there's your first clue. Also check the battery terminals for correct connections and no shorting out.

[straat-toe]

Thanks for the Feedback Cal.

I'll makse some time over the weekend and try your suggestions. The bike was running after the rebuild just not charging and the red and white would get to hot to touch. Then the fuse would start popping. Now since the Stator was rewound the fuse popped once while riding and then after that it started popping as soon as the key gets turned.

Thanks.

[straat-toe]

Ok Cal. I did the ignition switch tests with and without fuses. Nothing funky to report there.

I then started checking for continuity  between black and frame. Bingo. So after going through connections. Once the black connector on the regulator  gets disconnected no more continuity. When just feeling the wires from the stator the yellow wires seemed very hot. And I could feel heat coming from the stator through the alternator cover....This obvs isn't suppose to happen without the engine even running?

[calj737]

I then started checking for continuity  between black and frame. Bingo. So after going through connections. Once the black connector on the regulator  gets disconnected no more continuity. When just feeling the wires from the stator the yellow wires seemed very hot. And I could feel heat coming from the stator through the alternator cover....This obvs isn't suppose to happen without the engine even running?

This is a problem. Black to the stator is not GROUND, it's power. There should be no continuity between black and frame. If this is connected that way, I'm not surprised your stator is getting hot and you're blowing fuses.

Can you confirm: are your regulator and rectifier stock? And do you mind providing some clear pictures of the left side electrical panel/wiring?

[straat-toe]

Thanks for the quick reply Cal. We seem to getting somewhere.  The wiring harness is pretty much stock except for the terminal block leading to the fuse box I replaced. There is no black wires to the stator. Just the stock 3 yellow wires and then the white and green. If the regulator is grounding out could that cause the white wire leading to the field coil to be live and heat up the way it is? I asked the autolek that rewound my stator to increase its output slightly. Could this have fried my regulator or was my regulator the original source of my charging problems. whataballache!

I guess a Ricks rec/reg is in my future.

I should also clarify. The bike was sold to me as a 74 550k. And that's what I believed it to be. I have since figured out that it's  in fact a 76 550f engine and carbs in a 76 K frame.

[straat-toe]

Here's a pick of the plate.

[straat-toe]

And one from the back.

[straat-toe]

I did a continuity test on the regulator.  Are these normal results? Resistance between earth and white and black respectively.  no resistance between white and black.

[calj737]

So, I think I misunderstood about your BLACK and the stator. You did say regulator, I read stator, so disregard that.

I don't believe your problem is at the regulator. Your issue is the main fuse popping which leads me to believe you have a major short between the battery and the key. I notice someone has done a bit of tampering with the bullet connectors and use cheap crimps (the red ferruled type).

Did you ever test the key switch as I mentioned earlier? You said RED or BLACK when connected after the fuse block pops your fuse. This is where the problem is. Your stator/rectifier/regulator don't come into play until the motor is running. Except, you can do immediate damage to the regulator by installing the battery feeds backwards (ground to POS and hot to NEG). so if that has happened, then the BLACK circuit (because it does run thru the regulator) could be the source of your problem.

But I would focus "upstream" of the regulator on the BLACK and RED first. Look back to my post of June 5 and perform that troubleshooting. Then report back.

[straat-toe]

Hi Cal. You read properly the first time. The black running to the regulator read as a short to the frame when tested. I did the ignition tests with fuses removed. No voltage. Only with fuses reconnected did I Get Voltage Readings. With the red and black at the switch bridged(cutting out the switch) and fuses in. The fuse was still starting to melt.

The battery has never been reversed as long as I've had the bike.

When the key is on but the engine isn't running. The stator/field coil is getting hot enough for me to feel it through the alternator cover, and the wires running up from it is also hot.

The red bullet connectors are what's available to me here. I had to use them to sort out bad splices from the PO They are crimped and connected  properly so I don't think it's a problem. I have ordered the proper ones from vintage connectors. Just waiting for them to make the trip over the Atlantic. I'll be refreshing  all of them when they arrive and the entire black circuit.

I'm still concerned with the fact that the stator gets hot without the engine running. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for the help.

[calj737]

Two things to verify: with key on, can the stator hold a wrench to the cover? It should be producing enough magnetic field to do so. Have you confirmed the correct plugs between the stator and the harness (these are bullet connectors under the left side crank case). I'd like to see you pull some readings at these bullet connectors with a meter. You'll have to remove the sprocket cover to get to these. (Yes, immediate heat in those wires is a concern. It's an indication of too much resistance or amperage).

Use this flowchart to determine your stator health and resistance readings:

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

This is what I use every time and it is always accurate as to which/what part is misbehaving.

[straat-toe]

Hi Cal.
Great thanks for the chart. I'll have a look at it later in the week and do the magnetic stator test. 

[strynboen]

the regifier must be shot..so power runs from the battery and backverds to the generator coils


.diodes is normaly hold it back in the battery...but if they are shorted..it just runs dovn and heat it all up

[straat-toe]

the regifier must be shot..so power runs from the battery and backverds to the generator coils


.diodes is normaly hold it back in the battery...but if they are shorted..it just runs dovn and heat it all up

Hi Strynboen, Yeah it's all old original parts. So I think along with replacing the black circuit and refreshing the bullet connectors I will be getting a Rec/Reg unit from Ricks. I dont know if this is the reason for the main fuse popping though? The rectifier isn't on a fused circuit..

Sorry guys, like most people I'm fine with putting a engine back together but electrics is a unseen dark art to me. Good thing that I'm learninr a bit more now before the rewiring on my 400 and other 550 starts. 

I know one day I will actually get to enjoy this bike. Extra motivation is that my job has just moved into the City Centre and traffic is hell from where I live. So using a Cage isn't really a option for me. Time to get this "beast" on the road.

Thanks for the input.

[strynboen]

im  fights for keep the orginal parts...and thek/test them before thange to new..specily on parts vho not can be  done better/or more effektive today,, as for 40 years ago. and specily chinese parts are often vorse then japanese made,. 80% of all sohc aftermarked parts are china made.specily elektric parts

..diodes/reg..they funktion as they alvays have done..nev deseins are not more effektive..

so often it better to klean up..put new viring/schrenk flex on the old part


but try to thek for power flow bu a bulb and the battery from the mc..evt use a sideturn signal lamp..as test lamp..and thek that it lights up pulling volt  through the regifier..but only one vay..by turning the reg it villnot light...then it funktions right..light both vay..or no light at all, it are broken..must thek all 6 diode konektions..use the diragram to find the konnekted vires..for first 3 diodes..yellov vires to red vire..the lamp must flow/ light..and the other 3 diodes is green vire to the yellov vires it must flow/light

the skort must be at the main key--and on to the loading system..to blow fuses..

[straat-toe]

Hi all.
I've been a bit to busy with life stuff to get to the bike to do the tests. But this finally arrived for me via user Blackfin and a container with some bikes in it. Thanks Kevin. Now I get to make a Carbon fiber fender.

One step at a time.

[calj737]

Straat - are you one of Kev's buddy from RSA that came this year and delayed his finalization? Hmmm.... Small, small world. He mentioned his group of pals coming in for the annual sojourn and frivolities.

[straat-toe]

Nope. Not one of his friends. But I am from Cape Town and my brace got shipped back with his buddies bikes. All via the Forum.