Topic: Sexy Italian Sister..oh lordy.

[toytuff]

scottly, this has been discussed too! Many times.  I have checked the side stand switch, clutch switch and kill switch. All good.

Yes, the drop you see is where the bike stalled when leaving out the clutch. (off idle) If you keep the rpm up it doesn't stall. We are thinking fuel.

In this picture you can see where I held it around 5500 rpm in third gear. There was hesitation in the bike. You can see the green line.

We need to check the air/fuel ratio so I'm trying to find some test equipment. (mechanic friend) I might just tear it down and send the eprom off to the UK too!

It's been frustrating to say the least. On the "good" side this bike is wicked fast. 

Thanks for the reply.

tt

[scottly]

Doesn't the bike have an O2 sensor??? Why isn't the logger reporting any AFR numbers? BTW, the air temp looks too high at 60C (140F)?

[toytuff]

The logger does not report that without an additional hardware. (lambda sensor)

I am going to have the AFR read at idle, 15500/2000/2500 rpm when I get a hold of a guy I know that has a lambda sensor.

There is no O2 sensor on the 2007 model. Came out in 2008.

The software is reading Fahrenheit not Celsius.

tt

[toytuff]

At 5500 indicated in third gear we got this. Hesitation.

tt

[toytuff]

Doesn't the bike have an O2 sensor??? Why isn't the logger reporting any AFR numbers? BTW, the air temp looks too high at 60C (140F)?

My friend at the local Yamaha shop lent me this to use. At least I can get some idea where I am. (first pic)

Adam had to change the firmware in the logger. Since he is in the UK and I am in Arizona we used a program called "teamviewer" He basically took control of my laptop connected to the logger and made the changes. TPS in top left, Inj reading in top right and rpm below. Pretty cool stuff.

Picture two (2) shows cold start. You can see the amount of fuel. (top right)

Picture three (3) shows warm up with the injector coming down. (top right) We are looking for 2.3 readings @ 175/185 degrees F. This was just a test on the firmware. I'll run it to operating temperature later when I can put a fan in front and the analyzer in the exhaust.

Before I change anything from the Trim Pot inside the ECU I need to see if it's rich or lean. Since gasoline is 14.7 to 1 (lambda) I need to be 1.000 on the AFR. 14.7 to 1, picture four (4) and five (5). Waiting on some small ceramic screwdrivers. You do not want to use metal! 

Example: Lambda reading of 1.012 equals 1.2% lean. Lambda reading of .988 is 1.2% rich.

Still thinking it's lean. When I remove the fuel tank (again) the first thing is a closer inspection of the throttle body vacuum lines.

tt

[simon#42]

the assumption you have made is that when new the bike ran fine but has now developed a fault . i am not sure that this is the case . i suspect the bike has never ran properly and the cure for this will be a bit more than just tweaking a pot . get it on a rolling road and have someone who is experienced with injection systems have a look . was there a later fuel map that you could have installed ?

[toytuff]

I have stated that this problem was from day one. Tuner? Surly you jest, not one within 250 miles that I would trust.

No later maps with the 16m ecu. Just about everybody has had to make adjustments from day one due to the crap factory mapping.

tt

[Stev-o]

I have stated that this problem was from day one.

But the bike was not new, right? Mileage??
Didn't you buy it from a dealer? Surprised they are not offering support.

[simon#42]

what i meant was the bike has never run right from the day it was made .
if you knew this why buy it ?

[toytuff]

I have stated that this problem was from day one.

But the bike was not new, right? Mileage??
Didn't you buy it from a dealer? Surprised they are not offering support.

Steve, it was a private sale in a store, not dealer. They did knock some cash off. Basically flipped the bike without riding it. I told them to ride it so as to make sure but who knows. I have spent quite a bit of money from them on the Ducati so you would hope they could be trusted. I have been in the Store many times.

Obviously the bike was not ridden much as I bought it with 252 original miles. I own it, I'll work on it.

tt

[toytuff]

what i meant was the bike has never run right from the day it was made .
if you knew this why buy it ?

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Good Lord!

tt

[Stev-o]

I have stated that this problem was from day one.

But the bike was not new, right? Mileage??
Didn't you buy it from a dealer? Surprised they are not offering support.

Steve, it was a private sale in a store, not dealer. They did knock some cash off. Basically flipped the bike without riding it. I told them to ride it so as to make sure but who knows. I have spent quite a bit of money from them on the Ducati so you would hope they could be trusted. I have been in the Store many times.

Obviously the bike was not ridden much as I bought it with 252 original miles. I own it, I'll work on it.

Got it...forgot the details.   You'll get there...

[simon#42]

doubt it

[toytuff]

I think so. You just have to go in steps. Finding a gas analyzer to use was a big plus but of course it was more book reading and more time. We don't have emissions testing where I live so I could not find a dedicated lambda sensor to put in the pipe.

Like this forum I'm dealing with some pretty smart folks in another. Once I have a base then I can go further otherwise everything is a guess. It will never run right given the variables.

Once I get a firm afr reading I can start with a throttle plate adjustment, on to the fuel trim then sync the throttle bodies. About all you without burning the EPROM. That will be the last step.

Defiantly a learning curve. The hardiest part is not to get frustrated. 

tt

[toytuff]

doubt it

Get your post counts somewhere else. To far advanced for you.

tt

[scottly]

Tuner? Surly you jest, not one within 250 miles that I would trust.

[toytuff]

Getting a little further on the Brutale. With a bathroom remodel ($$$) and a block wall/wrought iron fence project ($$$) not much time. Mostly morning coffee, me time in the early hours. 

The mid pipe is getting a bung welded in. O-2 sensor wiring routed and gauge wired to switchable power. First picture.

When removing the ECU it was apparent someone was here. Also, the EPROM is not a MV Agusta item that I am aware of. No worries as this can be burnt which is on the plate.

So, we will see where the AFR is sitting. Should be 13.2 to 13.5. May need a "trim pot" adjustment as seen in last picture. (next to the EPROM) From there the data logger and EPROM ship back to the UK for changes and updates. This AFR/ Wideband setup will also connect to the data logger and record AFR readings as well as injection timing, engine timing, RPM, coolant temp, inlet air temp and battery voltage.

To be continued.

tt

[ekpent]

Mercy--you need to be a computer expert to work on this new stuff nowadays, glad you got a grasp on it all.

[toytuff]

Mercy--you need to be a computer expert to work on this new stuff nowadays, glad you got a grasp on it all.

Actually back in 2007 this was old stuff with crappy electronics and even worse mapping. They spent little time mapping the fuel and all that I have read very lean. EPA bull shid. In 2008 a completely different ecu was used. (5m)

Two different models were available in 2006. S model and R model. In 2007 the R was the only offering in the same color. Leftover for model change? Makes sense.

The retail price for the R model in 2007 was $17,995. It came with Arrow headers, mid pipe, race silencers and race EPROM in a separate package shipped with the bike.

What happened to the MVA EPROM? Not here but aftermarket installed which can be burned. (We have access to the original for changes)  Probably a shid map by a "tuner wana be" bozo.

I sent a letter to the original owner off of the title. He moved so it took a month for a reply. He had the  same issue and the so called "best in town" mechanic cleaned the injectors and fuel lines. I had to replace the fuel lines less than a year later as he did not use submersible line.

Other issues also and 13 ounces of oil overfill. Another "bozo" working on a bike. Why injectors? Really?! Even those are suspect. Heck, can't even use the correct size tool on the fuel rail? Really?! Bozo's.

With the help of some great MV forum members and some cash we are getting there.

tt

[Bankerdanny]

I am enjoying following this, but mostly because it is somebody else's time and $$.

You spent a lot of money for an essentially brand new bike and have had to invest a lot more in specialized tools, diagnostic work plus all your time. I just can't imagine that. Me, I spend that kind of cash on a new bike I expect to turn the key and enjoy.

I'm thinking retirement (and all that heat) has softened your brain a little TT.

[toytuff]

While some of this may be frustrating, it will be very satisfying once you iron out the kinks. They're phenomenal bikes and resurrecting one to proper performance will be a great deed!

It could be worse; it could be an AMF Harley 

It was frustrating but after second guessing everything with the New Year it's my 2015 project.

I am learning a lot but there is a lot I don't know. 

tt

[toytuff]

I am enjoying following this, but mostly because it is somebody else's time and $$.

You spent a lot of money for an essentially brand new bike and have had to invest a lot more in specialized tools, diagnostic work plus all your time. I just can't imagine that. Me, I spend that kind of cash on a new bike I expect to turn the key and enjoy.

I'm thinking retirement (and all that heat) has softened your brain a little TT.

 

Well, it wasn't a new bike purchase thank GOD. It was sold with no issues but they, like most, don't have a clue to begin with. Cost hasn't been to bad but I did just order some sweet carbon fiber for a few areas. 

Welding the bung is costing nothing. Bung was 3 bucks. Wideband was only $148.00 shipped with Bosch sensor. Pretty cheap compared to some. Logger was $200.00 but a quick seller on the forum. Fuel line was $30.00 for a foot.    Replaced stock tires with Dunlop Q3 for $250.00. Would of done that anyway. Fluid change was just time. Have plenty.

Yeah, I'm soft in the head alright but busy as can be since retirement. Wouldn't go back however. 

tt

[Stev-o]

I think tt likes a challenge, restoring old Hondas got to be boring for him. 

Keep at it, tt, I'm confident you'll get there and have an awesome bike to ride just in time for the 120 degree summer...ha!

[toytuff]

I enjoyed working on the previous bikes but instead of buying anything that came along I want certain models now. I will buy another project if it's the right bike.

Naw, I'll have this running good before then. Mid February at the latest unless another issue appears.

It's obvious this problem was from day one as I suspected. Given what the original owner told me it verifies this. Why remove and clean injectors when there are no miles on the bike? Bozo's with no clue.

We might send the 910R EPROM over the pond, install, run log files then send everything back. Make fuel map changes and send it back again.

Adam has been great on this and isn't charging me anything for the work other than the logger purchase.

Just time. I have plenty. Only wore a watch twice in 2 years. 

tt

[scottly]

May need a "trim pot" adjustment as seen in last picture. (next to the EPROM)

I would have tried that first: given it's an open-loop system, perhaps they leaned it out to pass emissions, while giving the end user some adjustment range to correct the issue?