Topic: Sexy Italian Sister..oh lordy.

[toytuff]

Finally got the bike down to me on Sunday. These pictures are before any detail work. Yes, the decals on the radiator guards are gone. New Dunlop Q 3's installed.



Couldn't figure out the difference in exhaust between Euro standards and the USA so I hit the net. Depending on destination Country MV Agusta had three (3) different exhaust options on the R model. I was elated to find out that the bike in fact does not have the CAT delete pipe but in fact the entire race exhaust with race eprom direct from MV Agusta.

The header and mid pipe is titanium and was manufactured by Arrow and the silencers by Lafranconi of Italy. You can see the difference in the etching..



And the race exhaust. Stamped on the inside is off road use only, blah, blah.. The two (2) combo's (exhaust/eprom) brought the HP up to 144 with a 12,000 rpm redline.



As stated in another post no time to ride yet but I am chomping at the bit to take her out. Only modification to this is some tasteful matte carbon fiber here and there. Just doesn't need anything else but ridden.

tt

[toytuff]

Looks like a "#$%* slap" on this sister. Running badly.

At first it wanted to die. Got past that then anytime you open the throttle above 4k it falls flat, stumbles then takes off. The gas smells a little bit so I filled her up with some high octane, added a little sta-bil.

I'm not sure how long the fuel was in there. I know one thing. I first saw the bike on June 20 th and it had 252 miles. I purchased it on August 18, delivered September 21with same mileage. First ride October 4 th.

I have an email in to the PO but would guess he never put any in since he rode it 12 miles to the store. That would make over three (3) months plus best I can figure. Maybe much longer.

Has all the symptoms of bad fuel to me. I'll put some miles on this bike and go from there. Hoping it takes care of it's self. 

Will see.

tt

[jas67]

Good looking pair of bikes.   Yes, unfortunately, Italians can be finicky.

[toytuff]

Finicky? Boy, this Brutale is driving me nuts!  Still troubleshooting this bad boy and on the lift since it was delivered. Only put 100 miles on it and that's just in road tests.

Has a stalling issue at idle when warm. Just like hitting the kill switch. I've tested everything I can, pulled the fuel pump and replaced a broken fuel line. This was replaced early last year and pretty sure it was not a submersible hose. New filter also. Same issue.

I then put a set of vacuum gauges on it and found the charcoal canister was drawing air from the tank to the throttle bodies. That has been removed. Runs better but still dies at idle when warm.

I ran some free software from the MV Forum and everything tests just fine.  A Gentleman by the name of Adam built me a data logger and it's on it's way from the UK. I can record up to 1600 hrs. of data. This will show everything the ECU is seeing and allow remapping of the EPROM. Adam can burn the EPROM with needed changes it's just mailing everything back and forth to the UK.

MV had several issues with fueling back in these years using the 16M ECU. The very next year they went to a 5M ECU. I believe this bike had an issue from day one, as most did, and was chased by remove/clean/replace.

The bike has become a challenge to me. I'll fix it, just time and money right? 

tt

[toytuff]

Here was the fuel issue. It's a wonder it ran at all.

tt

[toytuff]

Here we go! Let the tuning begin. 

tt

[jas67]

I'm glad that the problem turned out to be something simple!

[toytuff]

Simple? Just beginning thus the logger install.

The logger will show what everything is doing with any fault codes.

tt

[jas67]

I meant the fuel problem having a simple answer.

[toytuff]

Oh, well that was fuel delivery for sure but we will see what the injectors are doing. I still think it's a lean condition and/or air leak. Might be an IAP sensor too.

Without a logger you would drive yourself nuts. You can see a spike in the freeware. (Yellow line) This was the IAP but it could be heat from the engine.

More than likely we will make changes to the eprom especially the fan temp switch. 195 is to high. Need to program that lower. Fuel changes on the high end of the rpm band. She red lines at 12,200 before the ecu says "enough".

Learning everyday, keeps me busy. 

tt

[Stev-o]

Very interesting, John.  So, you bought the logger and it connects to the bike and your laptop?

[FunJimmy]

Beautiful bike TT.
Sorry to hear your having trouble extracting the pleasure you deserve out of it.

[toytuff]

Very interesting, John.  So, you bought the logger and it connects to the bike and your laptop?

Yes, more or less Steve. I had four foot of cable made so as to put the logger in the tool tray. On the F4 model there is room under the riders seat.

I mounted mine permanently (easy to undo) so as to keep an eye on things for an extended period of time. One end plugs into the ECU diagnostic port just like a Shop's Tech would do. The data is recorded to a SD card, up to 1600 hrs. Each time you start the bike a new file begins.

When ready remove the SD Card, plug into laptop/desktop and read the data on the program screens like posted above. Any changes would involve burning the eprom. There are several "tabs" in the program to run different things. (pic)

It's the long way around the barn but the results are the same. Only other option is a Micro Tech which allows you to change things yourself. Comes at a high price of around $1400.00. I have $220.00 in this unit and can sell it on the forums if need be.

tt

[toytuff]

Beautiful bike TT.
Sorry to hear your having trouble extracting the pleasure you deserve out of it.

Thanks!

Yeah, not happy about it. Long story, some resolution has been made. It's here, it's paid for so you move forward.

tt

[toytuff]

I set the TPS at .378 ohms which is a 2.3 degree throttle opening. Right where it needs to be.

You have to back probe the TPS. This was replaced with a known functioning unit. I had the original one tested, it's OK so I will keep a spare. For the 2007 model year you have to buy the whole fuel rail to get the TPS. Stupidity.

If the eprom needs removed it's located inside the ECU. I had Adam include a tool in the purchase just in case. Note to self: remove battery first! 

tt

[toytuff]

You guru's notice anything in this picture?

More Italian engineering. 

tt

[Bankerdanny]

What do you expect from a bike built by communists, especially Italian communists? That job is supposed to be performed by the idle screw technician.

[simon#42]

mostly built by Chinese communists actually .

[Bankerdanny]

Maybe now, but wouldn't an MV from a few years ago have been built in Italy?

[simon#42]

yes all the genuine mv's from the  70's are italian through and through . when the name was revived by cagiva in the 90's things where different and parts where bought in from else where . they have since been owned by proton and harley davidson [ bought it for 100 million dollars and sold it for 1 euro two years latter ] now back with castiglioni [ who owned cagiva ] the latest  to buy in are daimler mg . the engines amongst other things are now made in china . the last proper mv's where made in 1980 .
i have had a couple of original 750's , they are not very fast are very heavy and dont handle . hasn't stopped me looking for another one though .

[toytuff]

Data logger installed. Pretty cool stuff. Best to get a ride in today as a cold front is moving in.

No replies to the throttle body picture? Ignore the text.

tt

[jas67]

I see that the adjustments are conveniently located 

If you don't see removing the fuel tank and airbox as an inconvenience.   

[toytuff]

Nothing is convenient on this bike. Everything is packed tight.

I've had the tank off 5 or 6 times already. Doesn't take long now. 

Long ride today, still looking at the graph. I know this doesn't look right.

tt

[simon#42]

cant quite make the temp reading out , looks like 215 degrees C  is that correct ?

[scottly]

Oh, well that was fuel delivery for sure but we will see what the injectors are doing. I still think it's a lean condition and/or air leak. Might be an IAP sensor too.

Without a logger you would drive yourself nuts. You can see a spike in the freeware. (Yellow line) This was the IAP but it could be heat from the engine.

More than likely we will make changes to the eprom especially the fan temp switch. 195 is to high. Need to program that lower. Fuel changes on the high end of the rpm band. She red lines at 12,200 before the ecu says "enough".

Learning everyday, keeps me busy. 

tt

That spike in the air temp is very suspicious, as well as the new square wave-forms from several different sensors. My gut feeling as a bad ground..