Author Topic: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?  (Read 5532 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2014, 06:22:45 PM »
Yep, our EPA has yet again struck with re regulation crap that the science wholly refutes, not to mention the economics of it. And the humane issues of global food prices.

The EPA can't set regulation/policy without elected official cooperation, which is ultimately determined by the vote of the population (or lobby groups).  Ego, we must all support the policies by default, or we would vote to change it.  >:(

It IS all about "change", or so I've been told.  How do you like it so far?


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Offline Stev-o

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2014, 06:24:22 PM »
I got the beer!


That frig still full, Dave?!
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Offline dave500

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2014, 06:35:48 PM »
its a file photo,it doesent stay full long enough to get a new shot!

Offline Airborne 82nd

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 06:54:54 PM »
I got the beer!

That frig still full, Dave?!

I hate people that organized  >:(

Offline dave500

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 07:07:34 PM »
don't hate,i hate hate!

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2014, 07:15:02 PM »
n not a Bourbon in sight  ::)

Offline calj737

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2014, 07:31:01 PM »
I hate people that organized  >:(
He's not organized, he's prepared.
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Offline dave500

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2014, 08:29:13 PM »
im not allowed to drink bourbon these days,my wife tells me I get silly enough drinking beer.

Offline goldarrow

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2014, 09:39:06 PM »
You guys are all crazy about all these ethanol/non-ethanol fuel.  Just use this bacon fuel. Best performance known to mankind https://www.yahoo.com/travel/bacon-fueled-motorcycle-sizzling-across-the-u-s-95291257607.html
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2014, 11:31:41 PM »
Retro - the more you post, the more I find myself in agreement with you... Scary for me...

Can't say as I find any fault of flaw at all in your logic, and I know of not a single person in the US that is for ethanol.....except for big business factory farmers
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Offline PeWe

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2014, 11:50:38 PM »
Add ethanol as much as you need.
Something for the garage and winter...
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Offline ekpent

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2014, 03:53:33 AM »
Those things are totally 'steampunk'.  I think I see some good motorcycle parts there   ;D

Offline timmangan

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2014, 07:32:43 AM »
Hey now, way off topic i know, but just saw a few Michigan guys on here, if your riding hit me up, im over here in Grand Haven and when my bikes arent in pieces im on the road :)

Back to gas convo...

Offline matchstikman

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2014, 09:46:45 AM »
Hey now, way off topic i know, but just saw a few Michigan guys on here, if your riding hit me up, im over here in Grand Haven and when my bikes arent in pieces im on the road :)

Back to gas convo...
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Offline PeWe

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 10:05:39 AM »
The dog shaped molecule has always been very interesting and a power enhancer :)
We cannot buy gasoline without the dog here. 5% mix. The politicans wanted to use 10% mix bu that did not work wintertime when engine need to start.

But I see how my old carbs look like after sitting 20 years with old fuel without ethanol, a red gel cover everything inside. I have some litres still in my old tank as my avatar has.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2014, 10:54:05 AM »
"Performance" can mean different things to different people.
HP, Torque, reliability, MPG, exhaust emissions, oil consumption, etc. are all "performance" factors, and are routinely traded about in matters of importance.

Politicians and other overlords of the state for example, believe ethanol is a great "performance" enhancement in terms of Return on Investment.

Which is total bullsh1t when it takes into consideration that in the US you guys make ethanol from corn/food/ pushes feed prices up for cattle which in turn pushes up the price of any related food, so while there is a "return on investment" for the people involved, its at the cost of everyone else, not to mention poor countries removing forests to grow corn for fuel instead of feeding their own. Until Governments become independent from capitalists {yeah right} nothing will change


While the emergence of the ethanol industry has increased demand for corn, U.S. farmers have responded by growing significantly larger corn crops. U.S. corn production has increased tremendously in the “ethanol era.” The average annual U.S. corn crop averaged 7.2 billion bushels in the 1980s, 8.6 bbu. in the 1990s, 10.3 bbu. in 2000-2006, and 12.3 bbu. since 2007. As a result of larger annual corn harvests and the growing production of animal feed co-products, increased ethanol production has not affected availability of corn for traditional users. Corn supplies available for non-ethanol uses  have been larger, on average, since passage of the RFS2 in 2007 than at any other time in history. Corn and corn co-products available for non-ethanol uses averaged 314 million tons from 2007/08 through 2011/12. This compares to an average of 308 million tons available for non-ethanol use from 2002/03 through 2006/07 and an average of 300 million tons from 1997/98 through 2001/02.  The emergence of ethanol as a major source of corn demand has not reduced the supply of corn available for other uses, including livestock feed.

These are from the USDA,  the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the Consumer Price Index.  this one shows the year on year food price inflation and the inflation trend averaged out.  Seems the price inflation is trending downward while ethanol production increases.  Might be, just maybe...that oil prices account for up to 75% of the price inflation of food due to production costs.





   Maybe some you prefer to keep sending money to the Ragheads in the Middle East like the Saudis who are one of the main financiers of ISIS.  How much blood and treasure is spent to keep the oil spigot flowing in that part of the world. How many of our service personnel died for ethanol?  Do you ever factor in that cost?
   Sure it may not be the best for our old bikes but the very small number of people who want to run very old machines does not mean sh!t in the energy policy of the country.  Actually I am not that picky about what gas I use and it has not caused any problems for me since they introduced it.  I run a light two stroke mixture and maybe that helps.  I am not sure what all the pissing and moaning is about other than just wanting to make a "political" statement.   Here in the corn belt just about everything has 10% in it.
    On a more personal note as farm owner right in the heart of the corn belt it has been quite rewarding.  The rent payed by my tenant is at an all time high and going higher even though I give him a bit lower rent level than the market.  His family is a long time tenant (40+ years) and takes good care of the land.  The land values have also skyrocketed.   If ethanol blew up my bike tomorrow and burned it to cinder I would be a bit bummed but with the rent check I could just go out and buy half a dozen more.   
   Ethanol...I say burn it baby, burn it.  Cha-ching!  ;D


« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 11:50:26 AM by srust58 »

Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2014, 10:59:23 AM »
Not to mention the corn hybrid used for feeding humans or animals is not the same as used for ethanol.
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Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2014, 11:04:23 AM »
for the original poster....if  you are looking for performance as defined by what you sense in your seat..HP/torque, then the octane rating of ethanol based 'regular' fuel is identical to what is required by your engine....ergo..all things else being equal, you wouldn't know one type of fuel from another.  More performance starts first with more air, then match the fuel to get the ratio necessary.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2014, 11:22:37 AM »
Not to mention the corn hybrid used for feeding humans or animals is not the same as used for ethanol.

Much of the general public is unaware that the increase in ethanol output has been accompanied by dramatic growth in the production of co-product animal feeds, such as distillers grains, corn gluten feed, corn gluten meal, and distillers corn oil. Every bushel of corn processed by an ethanol plant produces 2.8 gallons of ethanol and approximately 17 pounds of high-protein, high-energy animal feed.  The U.S. ethanol industry produced some 37-38 million metric tons of animal feed in 2012, including 33-34 million metric tons of distillers grains.

 According to a recent publication of the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization:

Because of the abundant supply, excellent feeding value, and low cost relative to maize and soybean meal, distillers grains has become the most popular alternative ingredient used in beef, dairy, swine and poultry diets in the United States and in over 50 countries worldwide. Dietary inclusion rates have been increasing in recent years because of the increasing price of maize and the high energy value distillers grains provides to animal feeds at a lower cost.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 11:25:34 AM by srust58 »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2014, 11:53:37 AM »
Srust - good research and interesting point of view, thx for posting.  I don't really have a big issue with the ethanol fuel as long as I run my bikes regularly.  However, I use ethanol-free fuel in my lawn tools that do not get regular use, it's sold at Home Depot.  (No ethanol-free gas stations anywhere near me).
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Offline matchstikman

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2014, 01:15:17 PM »
for the original poster....if  you are looking for performance as defined by what you sense in your seat..HP/torque, then the octane rating of ethanol based 'regular' fuel is identical to what is required by your engine....ergo..all things else being equal, you wouldn't know one type of fuel from another.  More performance starts first with more air, then match the fuel to get the ratio necessary.
I'm more concerned with miles/gallon and less moisture in my tank.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2014, 02:24:12 PM »
for the original poster....if  you are looking for performance as defined by what you sense in your seat..HP/torque, then the octane rating of ethanol based 'regular' fuel is identical to what is required by your engine....ergo..all things else being equal, you wouldn't know one type of fuel from another.  More performance starts first with more air, then match the fuel to get the ratio necessary.
I'm more concerned with miles/gallon and less moisture in my tank.

You might get 3% less fuel economy which works out to around 1.2 miles per gallon.  Little performance difference as stated by Muckinfuss.  If you run the bike regularly moisture should not be an issue.  If you worry about it just drain your tank a few times a year to get any small amount of water out.....if you store it just drain the tank and fog it.

Seems a small price to pay for more energy independence and keeping the money here at home instead of in Riyadh.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2014, 04:19:14 PM »
for the original poster....if  you are looking for performance as defined by what you sense in your seat..HP/torque, then the octane rating of ethanol based 'regular' fuel is identical to what is required by your engine....ergo..all things else being equal, you wouldn't know one type of fuel from another.  More performance starts first with more air, then match the fuel to get the ratio necessary.
I'm more concerned with miles/gallon and less moisture in my tank.

You might get 3% less fuel economy which works out to around 1.2 miles per gallon.  Little performance difference as stated by Muckinfuss.  If you run the bike regularly moisture should not be an issue.  If you worry about it just drain your tank a few times a year to get any small amount of water out.....if you store it just drain the tank and fog it.

Seems a small price to pay for more energy independence and keeping the money here at home instead of in Riyadh.
You see nothing wrong with using vast tracts of land to grow corn instead of real nutritional food..?  No matter what spin you put on it, growing food for fuel is about the stupidest idea on the planet, especially when you look at the fact that ethanol can be made from virtually anything including the grass clippings from your back yard. You sound like an advocate of the corn/ethanol industry, which really surprises me Steve, ethanol is a #$%* fuel substitute and creates more problems than it solves until vehicles are purpose built to run on alcohol and even then problems will exist, just ask the drag racing community that use alcohol fuels, they flush the system completely out after every race meeting to stop corrosion. You need to burn 1.4L of ethanol to achieve the same amount of energy as burning 1L of pure petrol, far more than the 3% you quoted, for example, e85 has 33% less energy than petrol and 10% inefficiencies are reported constantly for 10% ethanol blends so i'm not sure where you are getting your facts, as more ethanol is added the efficiency goes way down, not to mention its subsidized to hell. Ethanol creates almost exactly the same amount of CO2 as fuel when the efficiency of the fuel is taken into consideration, so its not as clean and green as most will have you believe, the claims are made due to the corn absorbing CO2 as it grows which allows them to give it a more neutral rating as the CO2 is offset on the farm, juggling figures as usual. Corn is also one of the lest efficient ways of making ethanol,  what ever lobby that hounds your governments for market availability of corn is doing a great job but it will disappear just as quick as it started..  ::)  Moisture will ALWAYS be an issue with ethanol, as soon as you have alcohol in your fuel it is absorbing moisture and that moisture condensates and sits on the top of the inside of the tank and its not too hard to work out what happens then, to say otherwise is bullsh1t,  not to mention what it eventually does to all the rubber parts in its way and the washing effect it has on cylinder walls leading to faster wearing engines,  Car manufacturers have said they will refuse to honor warranties on cars using E15 so thats got to tell you something you would think...
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 04:34:05 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline calj737

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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2014, 04:21:12 PM »
Maybe some you prefer to keep sending money to the Ragheads in the Middle East like the Saudis...
While I certainly respect your right to an individual opinion, or perspective, I have zero tolerance for racial hatred or bigotry. This epitaph has no place being uttered in a public forum, and you really need to remove this portion of your post.

Total lack of respect on your part, srust.
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Re: How much will ethynol free fuel improve performance?
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2014, 04:42:56 PM »
Ethanol schmethanol.