Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


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1978 Honda CB550K

I'm doing the same thing so I'd like to find out how that would work.

Just did what Bootsey said up in post #67. Worked like a charm. Use the lower engine mount bolt and put a big 1/2" socket on it. Worked like a charm. Mine was easy to remove. Just, WATCH OUT for needle bearings that are between the cam sprocket and shaft. Mine all stayed put but just be aware that these are in there and love to jump out and run around.




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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Just tested the bearing clearance. Cleaned the hell out of the bearings, front and back and in the lower and upper case and the crank. Installed it dry and torqued the cases together as per the manual.

Manual says to replace the crank bearings if the plastigauge is greater than .003". Just want to make sure I'm reading this right. It seems even less than .0015". This one is the smallest I think but they're all really close.

I'd say I'm good to keep these bearings.






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1978 Honda CB550K

[Maurice]

Do you (did you...) have any false neutral anywhere on your transmission? Check the state of dogs/slots, see if there's any wear/rounding. If yours are good and the replacements are worn, I'd replace only the one gear. Maybe a good occasion to send them out for undercutting? These transmissions will create false neutrals right and left, with eventually some popping out of gear...

JMHO.

[DaveBarbier]

Do you (did you...) have any false neutral anywhere on your transmission? Check the state of dogs/slots, see if there's any wear/rounding. If yours are good and the replacements are worn, I'd replace only the one gear. Maybe a good occasion to send them out for undercutting? These transmissions will create false neutrals right and left, with eventually some popping out of gear...

JMHO.

Ah, ok, interesting. I'll look into that. It never did give me any issues. No false neutrals or popping out of gear. My tranny looks really good actually. I'll have to compare them side by side.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

Plastigauge looks good, the wider the impression, the tighter the clearance. You've still got enough to play with by the looks of it.
Did you primary shaft and bearing come out together, or did the bearing stay in the case? Either way, when you get up to reassembling, pop it in the freezer for a few hours, and it should just slide in.
When you get up to it, it's a good idea to do a couple of dry test runs putting the cases back together, to make sure everything fits. I found it easier to do it upside down.

[DaveBarbier]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


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1978 Honda CB550K

I'm doing the same thing so I'd like to find out how that would work.

Just did what Bootsey said up in post #67. Worked like a charm. Use the lower engine mount bolt and put a big 1/2" socket on it. Worked like a charm. Mine was easy to remove. Just, WATCH OUT for needle bearings that are between the cam sprocket and shaft. Mine all stayed put but just be aware that these are in there and love to jump out and run around.




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1978 Honda CB550K

I just realized I said cam sprocket. I meant starter clutch gear. So many names. It's like the Silmarillion...am I right people?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Plastigauge looks good, the wider the impression, the tighter the clearance. You've still got enough to play with by the looks of it.

Yeah that's what I thought. But some bearing shells have slight scratches or something. I can feel it with my nail on some bearings. Don't they have to be perfectly smooth?

Did you primary shaft and bearing come out together, or did the bearing stay in the case? Either way, when you get up to reassembling, pop it in the freezer for a few hours, and it should just slide in.

It didn't, but I took it out because it felt a little gritty when I spun it. I was trying to clean it out by flushing oil in it but I might just get a new one. Thoughts?

But the outer starter clutch came off and the little rollers are keeping it from sliding back on all the way. Does that need to be disassembled to get it on?

When you get up to it, it's a good idea to do a couple of dry test runs putting the cases back together, to make sure everything fits. I found it easier to do it upside down.

I did the plastigauge upside down and yeah, it was a lot easier. The con rods just hang down so you don't need to try and thread them in the holes.

I'm going to order the stuff I listed earlier tonight because I don't want this sitting around for long. Hoping to get this done before October.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

I had the same questions when I was reassembling. Apparently the bottom ends on these bikes are pretty bullet proof. Your shells haven't been starved of oil, so they should be good to go. Any minor imperfections can apparently help hold oil, and aren't to much to be concerned about when clearances are within spec, as long as the crankshaft journals also look OK.
Are you going to check the clearances on the rods too?

If you've got an air compressor, blow that bearing out, if there's any notching, or any lateral play, replace it.

My shaft and bearing came out as one.
To get the starter clutch back on, you have to carefully and gently rotate&angle it until you get the splines to line up, it takes a little bit of patience.

[DaveBarbier]

I had the same questions when I was reassembling. Apparently the bottom ends on these bikes are pretty bullet proof. Your shells haven't been starved of oil, so they should be good to go. Any minor imperfections can apparently help hold oil, and aren't to much to be concerned about when clearances are within spec, as long as the crankshaft journals also look OK.
Are you going to check the clearances on the rods too?

If you've got an air compressor, blow that bearing out, if there's any notching, or any lateral play, replace it.

My shaft and bearing came out as one.
To get the starter clutch back on, you have to carefully and gently rotate&angle it until you get the splines to line up, it takes a little bit of patience.

No, I'm not going to check the rods. Apparently these are stretch bolts and will/should be replaced if removed. And they're something like $15 per bolt. That's over $100. And since the other bearings are well within spec I'm going to assume they're good too.

I don't have an air compressor, just cans of air...I'll give it a shot.

Just ordering parts now. Hopefully they'll be in by this weekend.

Thanks Bootsey!


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

I was trying to do some searches but could find a picture of an acceptable amount of cleaning on gasket surfaces. Either a paper gasket or sealant surfaces. So far these are very smooth but you can see stains in some of the pictures. Is that ok or does it all have to be shiny aluminum?

Case half surface:



Clutch cover surface:
(This is how some of the worst looks.)



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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

Those are fine. As long as they're smooth, they're good.

[dave500]

chase all the threads with a bottom tap and compressed air,dig a skinny screwdriver down into them to be sure they are fully clear.

[DaveBarbier]

Ok cool, thanks guys. Trying to get someone to soda blast these things so I can paint them. I was considering prepping for paint by hand with brushes and aircraft stripper but soda seems like the best method for removing everything.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

You will need to clean and neutralize after soda prior to paint. Warm soapy water, rinsing thoroughly. Then Acetone to degrease and completely dry the cases. Then paint.

I like to preheat the cases to drive any final impurities out prior to Acetone, and prime/paint then. Provides the best adhesion.

[DaveBarbier]

Ah, preheat. Interesting. How hot? Like out in the sun or in an oven?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

250-300 degrees for about 20-30 minutes.

[DaveBarbier]

Spoke to a soda blaster who could blast my cases, jugs, head and valve cover for about $50. I plan on assembling the motor with no internals, then tape it all off. I was thinking of using maybe 2 layers of duct tape as the base gasket and head gasket for the blasting. And using painters tape between the case halves. The old valve cover and tappet cover o-rings should be enough for those areas. Anything wrong with this?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[MickB]

Dave I don't reckon you'd need to do that much, the soda'll just wash off with a good strong hoseing down.  Just make sure you get water down every hole and oil channel and stick the hose into the oil channel at the bottom of the engine

I got my engine put together for sand blasting and never used any gaskets. I used a minimum of bolts to hold it together and  only plugged the holes with bits of rags and I had no problems with gasket surfaces.

[DaveBarbier]

Dave I don't reckon you'd need to do that much, the soda'll just wash off with a good strong hoseing down.  Just make sure you get water down every hole and oil channel and stick the hose into the oil channel at the bottom of the engine

I got my engine put together for sand blasting and never used any gaskets. I used a minimum of bolts to hold it together and  only plugged the holes with bits of rags and I had no problems with gasket surfaces.

Thanks Mick, I was probably overthinking it like I do most things on this project.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[calj737]

absolutely agree with Mick. No need whatsoever to do all that. Rinse thoroughly afterwards is all you need.

[DaveBarbier]

Just wanting to express my hatred of removing gaskets. The case was easier. Razor blade (with caution, I know) mineral spirits and a green scotchbrite worked pretty well. But the jugs and head are punching me in the nuts and I have no more beer.
Anyone have tips? I have no Dremel tool or air tools. Also having a really hard time with removing the varnish on the head surface which you can see in the below picture.





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1978 Honda CB550K

[Maurice]

That's not that bad. You shouldn't do this in the "good" months, that's the kind of stuff to do in the winter because it is going to take time.

No secret: elbow grease, patience. Maybe some acetone, some of that permatex gasket remover. Razor blades.

Stay away from power tools. And be careful with razor blades, they will gouge the metal if you put too much pressure.

[dave500]

I have an old file cut in half and made into a razor sharp chisel,great for gasket scraping as it stays sharp for ages being hard,carefully pull those dowels out,you can draw file the barrel surface with care,clean the file each sweep,between the barrel spigots is a pain for anyone anyhow,a lot of gaskets back in the day contained asbestos so watch any dust,also makes them hard to remove.

[MickB]

Dave I used a die grinder with a surface prep tool, they are little nylon scourers, they were fantastic, took about 20 minutes to do every surface.

If you have a compressor that is.
Check on Northern Tool & Equipment about half way down the page.

[DaveBarbier]

Maurice: Yeah I know. Tell my bike not to eat gears...or if it's going to do it... do it in the winter. But also I don't have a heated shed, so summer/fall works, ha.

Dave: the dowels came out super easy. I'll try the draw file method. You mean to do this on the head gasket surface? That seems like it'll take material off a lot more. Luckily my grandfather left me a bunch of old Nicholson files of all kinds.

Mick: I've been meaning to get a lot of things. Air compressor, MIG welder, all kinds of things. I'll check out that site, thanks.


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1978 Honda CB550K