Author Topic: help me decipher electrical system test results - OMP Vreg update  (Read 5723 times)

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Offline flybox1

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CB750K8, F3motor.
Symptom- inadequate charging.

Rpm charging test...
Battery  @ 12.87v (off charger for 5hrs)
Light /ign On - 12.06v
Idle 12.4v
2000rpm - 13.41v
3000, 4000, 5000rpm - 13.5v

Battery drain test 12.87v to start.
Light(35W H4) on - 12.06v
1min - 12.6v
3min - 12.4v
5min - 11.99v
7min - 11.89v
10min - 10.98v

Battery Pos to Vreg black - 12.87v
Battery Neg to Vreg green  - 0.00v

Rectfier diodes(ohms)
S1  -  6.97, OL, 2.46, 9.36
S2  -  5.15, OL, 3.99, OL
S3  -  5.54, OL, 3.80, OL
(The 9.36ohms on S1 makes me suspicious when the other two are OL.)

See proper diode test results below

Stator yellows measure .40ohms on all three combinations
Coil green and white leads measure 7.0ohms.
Vreg harness wires measure 7.0ohms.

Anything else I can check? 
All harness connectors I can find have been cleaned.
Vreg point has been cleaned. Vreg core and point gap checked within spec.

Thank you for your assistance.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 07:23:49 am by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline eigenvector

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2015, 08:22:13 pm »
I'd start with what you suspect - the rectifier.
Rob
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Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2015, 08:25:09 pm »

 Rectfier diodes(ohms)
S1  -  6.97, OL, 2.46, 9.36
S2  -  5.15, OL, 3.99, OL
S3  -  5.54, OL, 3.80, OL
(The 9.36ohms on S1 makes me suspicious when the other two are OL.)


Does your meter have a diode test function? Looks kinda like this  -l<- You can't properly test a diode with a digital meter set on the ohms scale.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2015, 08:28:21 pm »
Yes.  I have it here in front of me....
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2015, 08:36:28 pm »
With my leads in the same orientation as when I got the 9.36ohm reading...in diode testing.mode, I get OL.   Switching the leads I get .501 volts(?)
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 08:44:26 pm »
With the meter set to diode test mode, the meter should read about 4-5 when the diode is conducting, and OL when the meter leads for that diode are reversed . There are twelve combinations: 3 with the red meter lead connected to the rect. red, and the black meter lead connected in turn to each of the yellow wires. The next three are with the black meter wire connected to the rect. red wire, and the red meter wire connected to each yellow wire. The next 6 tests are between the rect. green wire and the yellow wires.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 08:52:03 pm »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 08:55:48 pm »
While we're waiting, a diode is the electrical version of a one-way valve, or check valve. When it works properly, it only allows electrons to flow in one direction. It takes about .5 volts to turn it on, which is the reading displayed on a meter with a diode test function.
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Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 08:57:53 pm »
Your rectifier test looks good, Rob.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 08:59:21 pm »
Yeah, I think so too. 
So, what else could be preventing charging?
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2015, 09:05:52 pm »
Fully charged battery, ignition switch on, can you make a bfw stick to the alternator cover?
 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2015, 09:09:28 pm »
Nope. Not even a SFW, but I do get a little pull....
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2015, 09:13:27 pm »
Disconnect the white wire from the regulator, and jump it directly to the battery + terminal and do the bfw test again. (no need to have the ignition switch on)
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2015, 09:18:52 pm »
Disconnect the white wire from the regulator, and jump it directly to the battery + terminal and do the bfw test again. (no need to have the ignition switch on)
No improvement in the magnetic field....
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2015, 09:31:15 pm »
Your ohms reading from the white wire (disconnected from the reg)  to chassis ground is 7 ohms?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2015, 09:37:33 pm »
Your ohms reading from the white wire (disconnected from the reg)  to chassis ground is 7 ohms?
7.3ohms
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2015, 10:05:36 pm »
With 12+volts applied to the white wire, there should be a noticeable magnetic field??? You don't have an after-market finned alternator cover installed, do you? That might explain it. If not, did you remove the field coil from inside the cover, and install it backwards? The left side of the field coil in this pic should go towards the inside of the cover.
 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:09:57 pm by scottly »
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2015, 10:11:40 pm »
When I got this engine, yes, the coil was loose from the cover.   It's possible, I guess, but doesn't it install only one way?   IIRC, there were only three mounting holes on one side.   Mine is installed as in your picture...
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:15:30 pm by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2015, 10:14:53 pm »
Yeah, I think it can only go one way; I'm stumped???
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2015, 10:18:23 pm »
I appreciate the immediate help.  I'll go thru the harness once more this weekend. Maybe I'll knock something loose  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2015, 10:26:57 pm »
The only other test I can think of is to connect the field coil bullet connectors under the sprocket cover directly to battery plus and minus terminals, bypassing the harness entirely.... 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2015, 10:33:09 pm »
The only other test I can think of is to connect the field coil bullet connectors under the sprocket cover directly to battery plus and minus terminals, bypassing the harness entirely....
To rule out a bad field coil?   Is there an incorrect orientation?
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline scottly

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2015, 10:38:04 pm »
No, to rule out a harness issue.
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2015, 10:44:21 pm »
I think it's a bad ground on the field coil.... as Scottly says, bypass and connect + and - from the battery to the field coil bullets under the sprocket cover.... or you may discover they are corroded/crappy when you look in there.
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Offline flybox1

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Re: help me decipher electrical system test results.
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2015, 10:50:49 pm »
I think it's a bad ground on the field coil.... as Scottly says, bypass and connect + and - from the battery to the field coil bullets under the sprocket cover.... or you may discover they are corroded/crappy when you look in there.
I just had those out a few hours earlier and tested to 7.0ohms resistance.   I'll make the connections tomorrow, and pull the cover to check the wires more thoroughly...
When I do bypass the harness, what should I be looking for?  BFW-holding magnetic field?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:52:57 pm by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"