Author Topic: Welding (Read 5876 times)

theslayedsaint · « **on:** July 24, 2015, 07:09:22 PM »

Hey, so not sure if this is going to upset people but would love some ideas on what's the best type of welding and what type or brand of welders to buy. Looking for somthing to have at my shop aka my basement, for all round use on building and fixing anything from motorcycle parts to tools and other things.

SOHC Digger · « **Reply #1 on:** July 24, 2015, 07:15:10 PM »

If you want to do everything, get a good TIG machine and take some classes.

eigenvector · « **Reply #2 on:** July 24, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »

Don't see why it would upset anyone, well some of us are naturally argumentative, but not just because of that.

Personally DIY is sometimes the only solution for keeping these bikes on the road.

I would love to learn how to weld like a pro - but sadly more likely I'd just blind myself.

theslayedsaint · « **Reply #3 on:** July 24, 2015, 07:42:04 PM »

So you think TIG is better then a MIG welder?

5thofhonda · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:10:23 PM »

Everything I've read so far says it's easier to learn starting with a good smaller MIG/flux welder. Once you've got the hang of it, get a TIG. Or just take some classes and go from there.

jonda500 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:13:08 PM »

I have oxy-acetylene (gas) and arc (stick) welders. Whilst I manage most tasks with these, I would love to get a tig- I think you cannot get a better weld with any other type of welder as you can with a tig (if you know what you're doing!). I have been trying to save up for an AC/DC tig which would mean I could weld aluminium, however these machines are very expensive so I may end up changing my mind and looking at a cheaper steel only tig welder.
Mig welders are relatively easy to use, convenient and weld quick so they make sense in a business situation, but I still think tig welders are the premium type of welder to achieve the best quality welds.
John

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:17:00 PM »

If you're starting out. MIG. Definitely a MIG. No question in my mind. Easy to use and you can do pretty much everything for a bike with it. TIG takes much more practice and can get frustrating. Plus, they're a lot more expensive. If I were you, I'd get what I have...a Lincoln Handy MIG. I got mine online from ToolTopia.com for $330. Best purchase I ever made other than my bike or every time I buy beer. This is the part number I got: LEWK21851

It comes with flux core so you can get right to it, or you can hook up air to it with a solid core wire. I have a tank about knee high and it's awesome. It's a GREAT little machine. You can use it with light metal like 22ga and you can still burn holes in thicker metal. I really recommend it.

Eventually you can get a TIG and take classes. But in a weekend and watching YouTube videos you can make some really decent welds with the Handy MIG.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #7 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:22:19 PM »

Just do it. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321755775757&globalID=EBAY-US

I'd also get an auto darkening helmet. Makes life much easier. A cheap one like the one I have. http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200485271_200485271?hotline=false

Davez134 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:33:36 PM »

I agree with the MIG suggestions. Easier learning curve, cheaper to start with and good for all around use. I got a Miller 140 about 3 years ago. Have been able to weld anything steel I have needed to (including my frame kit

) It can also be set up for use with flux core wire, or with gas. I knew nothing about welding 3 years ago.

SOHC Digger · « **Reply #9 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:47:37 PM »

See if your local college offers a welding class. You will get plenty of welding time under experienced supervision and you will be able to make an educated decision on what welder or type of welding will be best for your needs.

SOHC Digger · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2015, 08:50:13 PM »

I had been welding for years, mostly MIG, before I took a formal class. After taking the class, I didn't trust any of the welds I had layed down before that. It's definitely time and money well spent if you are serious about welding anything that you need to be able to trust your safety with.

BollarNPS · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2015, 09:11:58 PM »

I know its harbor freight but! i purchased a 90amp one for like 90$ with coupons as im renting and dont have access to bigger amp outlets. Im new to welding and i got a flux core mig. It does a good job you just cant weld for more than like 50 minutes constant before you need to let it cool down. I can tell that i will deff!!!!!! need to buy bigger eventualy but its a good learning if thats what your looking for.

RevDoc · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2015, 09:14:45 PM »

Quote from: SOHC Digger on July 24, 2015, 08:47:37 PM

See if your local college offers a welding class. You will get plenty of welding time under experienced supervision and you will be able to make an educated decision on what welder or type of welding will be best for your needs.

You don't say in your profile where you are located but here in PA and up in NY a lot of communities have evening and weekend Adult Education Classes in local schools for very reasonable rates. Might be worth checking with a local school system.

theslayedsaint · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2015, 09:47:41 PM »

Thanks guys! I'm in Portland, OR and I've been looking for motorcycle tec classes and can't find anything but maybe I'll find a welding one! That would be a bunch of fun

Don R · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2015, 10:30:27 PM »

My welding teacher wanted to give us a drawing test like the one in the art school ads. He believes artistic folks learn to weld easier then people like me. I can draw a blueprint of a building but not a picture of a cat. I did it anyway but I'm not a natural, learn to see the molten puddle and if you need glasses wear them or get an RX lens in your hood.
They are correct, mig is cheaper and easier, the farm store welders work but a brand name is easier to keep working when parts wear out. Gas is better than flux core too, you can weld steel with co2, I use a beverage bottle, it makes a little more splatter but welds nice.
If you want to be the best, get a tig.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #15 on:** July 25, 2015, 05:23:54 AM »

Quote from: Don R on July 24, 2015, 10:30:27 PM

Gas is better than flux core too, you can weld steel with co2.

74/25 argon/CO2 is very common too. I got my bottle for...something like $30 and that came full. Got it from the guys at my local Airgas.

Gas IS better generally, and you'll be happier with not constantly cleaning the slag and spatter.

atm cycles · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2015, 06:23:44 AM »

Oxygen-acetylene is best bang for your buck by far. Cuts ,welds and heats. Welds,braze and solder most metals. Welds thin sheet steel and aluminum with very strong but workable welds. Teaches hand coordination with rod that will make tig easier later. Very portable to anywhere. Even EMP proof needs no electric. Draw back. Slower. Several passes needed for thicker steel. Flux core is quick but dirty porous weld not the strength. Mig using gas which is affected by even the slightest of breezes. Tig is a pros specialty tool. More expensive. Again gas affected by breeze. Uses much more gas as purge for tanks and such. Welds are much harder leaving sheet and aluminum harder to work for body panels and such. MHO. Also don't weld in your basement.

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #17 on:** July 25, 2015, 06:24:33 AM »

Quote from: SOHC Digger on July 24, 2015, 08:47:37 PM

See if your local college offers a welding class.

That's exactly what I would do...

Grinnin · « **Reply #18 on:** July 26, 2015, 06:31:46 AM »

Whatever you plan to weld now, you'll find it so handy that you'll want to weld other materials and thicker or thinner later.

MIG really is easy to learn. If you do this, spend lots of time with scrap pieces then try to break every one apart. You CAN learn to get good weld penetration although a class can make that learning faster. I started with CO2/argon, but flux-core wire works great too.

I also have oxy/acetylene and it has taught me a lot. It'll cut and braze as well as weld. Brazing is underrated these days; it's a very strong method and doesn't overheat thin metals.

The latest here is a Smith Little Torch for oxy/acetylene. It's better known for jewelers and hobbyists, but the large tip is great for many motorcycle projects. Control is very easy since the hose is very flexible and the torch is small and handy.

It's been years since I took a class, but I was really bad at welding aluminum. This is where I need to acknowledge my limitations and let pros do the work. I could probably learn OK given enough time, but most of my projects work fine in steel with the tools I have.

BASEMENT: Welding makes fumes that are not good for your lungs. Flux creates smoke. Adjusting an oxy/acetylene torch starts with a sooty acetylene flame. I'd suggest building a welding bench with a good ventilation hood or having equipment that you can move outside.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2015, 02:56:56 PM »

Just want to touch on the safety part for a second. I'm sure you've read a lot already, but if not, then read as much as you can. A welder friend of mine's brother died 2 years ago from phosgene poisoning. It's super bad for you and really easy to make if you don't know what you're doing. Don't clean parts with carb cleaner or brake clean! I think acetone or denatured alcohol is ok. Carb cleaner or brake clean mixed with argon mixed with heat from the arc will kill you. Or at least make you very sick and there's no cure for it. There's so much more to know regarding safety but I hope, being new like me, that you take all precautions seriously. Welding in an enclosed basement isn't a great idea unless you have a ventilation system. And even with a ventilation system a lot of people wear respirators.

theslayedsaint · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:19:33 PM »

Thank a ton guys for all the help and safely tips!
My wife owns a jewelry and design business that for the last 2 years I've been making a lot of the jewelry and everything we do is made in house from start to finish, with that said i know a lot about soldering and how fumes can affect you! my "basement is also a garage so with a fan pushing air out the door and welding in front of it i think it would be fine.
as for the TIG vs MIG i'm still not sure what i'm leaning towards, part of me says go with TIG learn hot to use it and in the long run it makes more sense. but at this point I'm still not sure.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:56:58 PM »

Quote from: theslayedsaint on July 26, 2015, 03:19:33 PM

so with a fan pushing air out the door and welding in front of it

Weellll... you gotta be careful with that because the breeze is also carrying away your shielding gas, which is pretty important with Welding as opposed to Soldering. Since you're melting the base material, it can absorb oxygen from the air while it's molten and then when it cools you have a contaminated weld, which is weaker. Arc welding and flux-core MIG stand up to a breeze better because the slag that forms on top of the weld shields it from contamination as it cools, but there's a lot more sparking and splattering involved not to mention chipping off the slag and cleaning THAT up afterwards.

Choice of welding process (stick, MIG, TIG) will depend on what exactly you're hoping to weld. By that, I mean which materials and which thicknesses. You wouldn't want to do sheet metal work with an Arc welder (although you CAN), and you wouldn't want to weld 1/2 inch plate with a 110v MIG machine (although you CAN). 220V machines get better penetration but you gotta have the right hookups or have them installed. You CAN do aluminum welding with a MIG and a spool gun, although TIG is superior for that (but more expensive and challenging to learn).

It's like the old saying...

I have a Lincoln Electric 110v MIG which takes a gas bottle (I use C25) and it suits my usage profile just fine. Honda used all thin-walled tubing on these bikes so it's more than sufficient for tabs, brackets, etc. Since flux core gets slightly better penetration I can switch to that for really thick pieces but in practice I rarely need to weld anything that heavy. Your milage may vary.

mystic_1

fmctm1sw · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:59:45 PM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on July 26, 2015, 03:56:58 PM

Quote from: theslayedsaint on July 26, 2015, 03:19:33 PM
so with a fan pushing air out the door and welding in front of it
It's like the old saying...

Nice work. I don't think I've ever seen a Venn diagram worked into that saying...

mystic_1 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2015, 04:02:28 PM »

Heh, that was shamelessly stolen from the net, although I do enjoy a good Venn diagram...

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #24 on:** July 27, 2015, 12:11:50 AM »

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2015, 01:56:48 AM »

Quote from: Retro Rocket on July 27, 2015, 12:11:50 AM

(Results may vary)

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2015, 04:52:55 AM »

70CB750 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 27, 2015, 07:37:22 AM »

Quote from: theslayedsaint on July 24, 2015, 07:09:22 PM

Hey, so not sure if this is going to upset people but would love some ideas on what's the best type of welding and what type or brand of welders to buy. Looking for somthing to have at my shop aka my basement, for all round use on building and fixing anything from motorcycle parts to tools and other things.

Get a MIG of one of the three big names - Lincoln, Miller, Hobart - you can do a lot with 110V unit.

Local classes are great beacuse they let you use and learn on much better machine than you will end up buying, it is easier to learn on quality welder.

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2015, 05:58:31 AM »

IMHO good welding requires the mastery of two key concepts. Body coordination and heat control. Jumping straight in with a Mig wire feed machine won't teach you that. It'll make you a pretty good grinder though. If you'd like to become proficient at welding ANYTHING I'd suggest getting an oxy-acetylene setup to learn the basics. Once you get pretty good at penetration and bead profiling, step up to a Mig, or creme de la creme, a Tig machine with AC output. It's like makin' love baby.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2015, 06:16:04 AM »

I gotta agree that welding machine selection is a bit less important than learning and understanding the principals of welding, and practicing those skills repeatedly.

No amount of reading is going to teach you how to move around a pool of metal while not even touching it, while wearing thick gloves, and the darkest sunglasses in the world. You're half blind, swaddled up, wearing mittens, and trying to manipulate something dangerous yet delicate using only the forces of electrical fields and gravity while also taking care of the chemical reactions taking place inside your material. It takes some practice.

Probably the biggest thing I'd recommend is pairing up with an experienced welder who can give you some basic pointers on how to avoid the most egregious mistakes. This can be a formal class or just a buddy who's willing to help out.

A good weldor can make just about any machine sing. A poor weldor will be a poor weldor regardless of which machine they're using.

One can understand that most home hobbyists wont want to buy three different welders and invest thousands of dollars into equipment, just to make a few basic welds. Do keep in mind the excellent advice above, though, that with a MIG its easier to make welds that LOOK nice but which are completely inadequate and will fail under load.

mystic_1

Desert-SOHC · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2015, 09:56:21 AM »

I joined the weldingweb forums and we arranged a "weldorama" here on the west coast. There were guys there that do it for a living giving lessons and demo's. Got my first taste of Tig there and who would have known that my wife is a natural Tig welder. I learned ALOT more about welding and control from guys and girls that are awesome welders.

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Author Topic: Welding (Read 5876 times)