Author Topic: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation  (Read 59701 times)

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Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #225 on: September 06, 2016, 11:12:46 AM »
Hello again,

I'm happy to report that the little CB350F has returned from its maiden tour! It covered nearly 4,000km of highway with *almost* no issues. More on that in a moment...

The route was Winnipeg to Lake Louise in 2.5 days, approx 1,550km. From there, it was North to Banff, then Jasper, then Mount Robson Provincial Park, and back home the same way we came. Along the way we stopped to go hiking. Camped every night except in Calgary.

We rode in blasting prairie cross-winds, lightening storms, searing heat, sub-freezing temperatures and even a bit of snow! The bike was dropped once, but thankfully at the end of an emergency stop once the bike had slowed to a walking pace. It was a proper tour to be sure.

Three issues presented themselves along the way:

1) The oil consumption issue. This was not a new problem of course. I believe the bike burned through about 4 litres of oil, maybe 5. Some fuel stops the level wouldn't drop at all. Others it'd go from the 'full' mark to the lowest end of the dipstick in 100 miles. Regular checking kept things lubricated. Now that we're home, it's time to plan the engine rebuild.

2) Front tire would not sit properly on the rim. There was a 6" section that seemed to sit 1/8" closer to the rim than the rest. You could see from the side-wall molding details that it just wouldn't snap into place the same way the rest of the tire did, and as a result there was a flat spot that would cause vibration at speed. I deflated the tire twice, lubed the rim and tire with soapy water and inflated up to 60psi to get it to sit, but no luck. In the end it was something that just had to be endured. Some lead weights helped smooth out the tire at speed, but in the city it was thump-thump-thump. This could have been avoided had I changed the tire sooner before departure...

3) Engine dies at idle now! This one has me confused. The bike was running 100% the whole way there, and half the way back. Then one day it just died at a red light coming in from the highway. It was running very weak at idle. After it sat overnight, it was back to normal. Then the next day, right around 100 miles of riding, come up to a stop in Brandon (200km from home) and it dies. The idle screw had to be cranked up to get it to stay running. On the highway it would run totally normal. Strong pull, smooth, no back firing or anything. But at a stop, it would die. Given that the sun was setting, and a huge thunderstorm was raging in front of us, we used our CAA membership to get a lift home. I rode home on my R80 and regretted it the whole way, should have put my bike on the flatbed too! Lightening is not to be messed with.


I'm pretty out of ideas on the idle issue. Perhaps a points issue? I'm totally uneducated on how points work and maintaining them, beyond making sure they aren't pitted. Any suggestions on things to check based on the weak idle?


Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #226 on: September 06, 2016, 12:14:52 PM »
I also thought fuel at first because it tended to happen close to the time reserve would kick in. But now it's happening regardless of fuel level in the tank. So I thought maybe it was something with the idle jets/circuit.

Since the motor works perfectly fine accelerating up to highway speeds, as well as maintaining that speed, I don't think fuel is being obstructed to the float bowls or I'd have similar symptoms then, right? I didn't use the clear tube method, but set the float heights when I rebuilt the carbs a few months back using a caliper. The bike has been running 100% since that rebuild. No problems with overflow, engine performance, etc. So Something has gone out of whack since, just seems unlikely to me that it would be the float height.

I've got OEM Honda fuel line running from a new petcock through an inline fuel filter. I've checked fuel flow at the bottom of the fuel line and it's streaming out nice and easy.

If I can get it to idle properly, one good blip of the throttle sends the needle down below idle speed, it sputters, and dies. I've got to baby it with my hand to prevent the RPM from dropping to low. Are there typical issues that cause the engine speed to drop below a set idle speed?


OIL: 100% burning. I can tell from the big plume of blue smoke and burning oil smell coming out the tail pipe, particularly while engine braking. And all the black soot inside the pipe LOL. There's not a drop of oil under the bike, or anywhere on the engine. It looks nearly new actually! Shame it has to come apart.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #227 on: September 06, 2016, 01:01:28 PM »
Idle issue could be just about anything....time to redo 3k tuneup...go through everything start to finnish
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #228 on: September 06, 2016, 07:23:54 PM »
Idle issue could be just about anything....time to redo 3k tuneup...go through everything start to finnish

Yes and clean all 4 pilot jets,they're the smallest ones(#35 in your bike?)and don't take much to clog them w/ just a little lint,etc.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
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Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #229 on: September 14, 2016, 11:39:42 AM »
I adjusted the valves and checked the points today. One valve was still in spec, 6 were too tight, and one was a hair loose. Adjusted them all (much easier second time around...), then moved to the points. It looks like both had closed up a fair bit. The left set was tight, but not crazy tight. The right side had basically closed up entirely and wasn't opening anymore. I cleaned the surfaces with a small file, then biz card, set the gap and the bike is back to idling nicely. No more dead engine when coming to a stop either. I also greased up the cam as it was bone dry and I could hear it squealing while spinning... Oops.

I've ordered a new set of points and condensors since these are real old and the points were pretty pitted. Seems like cheap insurance.

More importantly, winter is 6 weeks away, so it's time to start thinking about the ENGINE REBUILD  8)

Scanning the forum shows a huge number of failed 350F rebuilds due to large leaks. All of these have been done with aftermarket gasket kits. The only ones that seem to have stuck are when people spray the head gasket with copper coat.

I just so happened to have good luck on eBay today though, and scored a genuine Honda top-end gasket kit for $60. (Pic attached). Any thoughts here on how to install the gaskets? Dry? Or should I add the copper coat as insurance?

Just realized I can do this job with the engine in-frame too. That. Is. Awesome.

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #230 on: September 14, 2016, 12:25:40 PM »
And just found a pair of NOS Honda standard rings, set of four, for 60 bucks in Canada. Another score. Looks like that gasket kit I bought doesn't have valve stem seals though.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #231 on: September 14, 2016, 01:15:00 PM »
And just found a pair of NOS Honda standard rings, set of four, for 60 bucks in Canada. Another score. Looks like that gasket kit I bought doesn't have valve stem seals though.

I'm glad to hear you found an NOS oem Honda top-end gasket set ! put it together dry imo. Nice score also on the NOS oem STD rings  8) I hope you get quality(anything but Daichi)contact points;possibly you can go ahead and score some oem(by the part# on ebay)Honda stock points  :)

Who'll be doing the cylinder head check/work? I know that member here MRieck has access to some high quality valve stem seals.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 01:17:53 PM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #232 on: September 14, 2016, 01:19:03 PM »
OH dear, they are Daichi  :o What's the deal with them? I bought a condensor/points package from 4into1. Maybe I should just stick with the ones I've got now then and clean them up, but replace the condensor.

Are the points the same as on a cb750? I've got a pair somewhere in my garage still in the box, and also at least two complete ignition units for the 750 buried somewhere.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #233 on: September 14, 2016, 01:29:29 PM »
OH dear, they are Daichi  :o What's the deal with them? I bought a condensor/points package from 4into1. Maybe I should just stick with the ones I've got now then and clean them up, but replace the condensor.

Are the points the same as on a cb750? I've got a pair somewhere in my garage still in the box, and also at least two complete ignition units for the 750 buried somewhere.

Daichi are very cheaply made and sometimes the alignment of the contacts is 'off'.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #234 on: September 14, 2016, 05:07:07 PM »
I used daiichi stuff for years but wont any longer.  The points can be made to work but the condensors are not to be trusted. They will not last and you will be left stranded.  Hondaman ignition is a good option.  Just set it up with the best condition point set you have available and the points should last a longggg time.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #235 on: September 15, 2016, 09:16:28 PM »
Spent a bit of time in the shop tonight. I removed the front tire and found that the lower flat spot was directly across from the valve, at the weld. It was slightly raised there and hanging the tire up. Filed the weld flat and polished the rim bed. Now the tire is much better and it feels smooth while riding

Next up was a carb sync. Yup, STILL hadn't done that... I thought it was really close but turned out to be fairly out. Engine sounds much smoother while cruising in the lower rpm range, just above closed throttle position. Smooth engine, smooth ride, it's like a whole new bike.


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Offline MoMo

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #236 on: September 15, 2016, 11:08:32 PM »
dry gaskets  is the way to go

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #237 on: September 16, 2016, 08:55:27 AM »
MoMo - just one question about your suggestion. I've rebuilt two CB750 engines with dry gaskets, never had a leak. The 350F is notorious for leaking though - have you done a 350F rebuild with dry gaskets successfully? I'm thinking it's probably the right way to go with the OEM Honda stuff, considering it would have been built dry from the factory, but looking for some assurance I guess.

In other news, going to pick up a XR650L today. New bike day  8)

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #238 on: September 16, 2016, 10:33:27 AM »
MoMo - just one question about your suggestion. I've rebuilt two CB750 engines with dry gaskets, never had a leak. The 350F is notorious for leaking though - have you done a 350F rebuild with dry gaskets successfully? I'm thinking it's probably the right way to go with the OEM Honda stuff, considering it would have been built dry from the factory, but looking for some assurance I guess.

In other news, going to pick up a XR650L today. New bike day  8)

XR650L ! Monster dirt bike for the street  8) I hope you make it a 'street thumper' w/ street treads and possibly lower the front suspension a little,kind of 'Super Motard' idea.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline MoMo

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #239 on: September 16, 2016, 06:27:25 PM »
MoMo - just one question about your suggestion. I've rebuilt two CB750 engines with dry gaskets, never had a leak. The 350F is notorious for leaking though - have you done a 350F rebuild with dry gaskets successfully? I'm thinking it's probably the right way to go with the OEM Honda stuff, considering it would have been built dry from the factory, but looking for some assurance I guess.

In other news, going to pick up a XR650L today. New bike day  8)



350f a long time ago, yes, but several 400f recently put together dry.  Agree with the thought that they were put together dry at the factory so who am I to question

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #240 on: September 18, 2016, 07:13:13 PM »
Cool, thanks!

Took the 350 on a 500km "spirited" club ride with some guys over the weekend. We hit one of the few twisty roads we've got around here and I opened the bike up to try and keep up with the 1200cc modern bikes. What a wild ride! This bike just sings in 5th at 9K haha  ;D The guy behind me said his speedo recorded me at 150km/h, not bad for this old bike. It's really too bad it's burning oil, because it's running so nicely otherwise.

Anyway, while I wait on the parts for the engine rebuild, may as well ride it as much as possible as snow is only 4-6 weeks away...

Oh...and here's a photo of my wife and the 350, and me on my new toy  ;D ;D ;D

« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 07:30:15 PM by markreimer »

Offline Coldsmoke

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #241 on: September 25, 2016, 04:36:03 PM »
Permatex #2 is what you need to put on bith sides of the head gasket  if you want it to seal. Anything else will leak sooner than later.
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Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #242 on: September 27, 2016, 12:36:14 PM »
Gasket kit arrived today. Anyone able to tell from the photo if this head gasket is like the original one, with the heat activated adhesive layer, or if it's a later replacement that will need some sealant?

Also what the heck are those two thick and tall rubber pieces for??




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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #243 on: September 27, 2016, 01:40:45 PM »
You won't need any sealant applied to your oem Honda head gasket.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #244 on: September 27, 2016, 01:45:05 PM »
I don't think that's 100% the case. After looking through at least a dozen 350 and 400 rebuild threads that ended up leaking, there were a number of dry-installed OEM head gaskets that leaked. HondaMan explained in one that the original head gaskets had a tacky heat-activated sealant incorporated into their design which prevented leaks from happening. Later Honda-branded gaskets did not, and would often leak as many of us have experienced. So I'm just wondering how to tell the difference. This gasket feels pretty smooth and dry, not tacky or anything like that. There are lots of people here saying their rebuilds are bone dry with copper coat. Others saying Permatex (like above), and lots saying they have leaks after installing dry or with sealant.  :P

I find it all rather overwhelming. I'd prefer to stick with a early honda gasket and no sealant. but if someone can tell me how to identify if it isn't one, I'll be using a sealant regardless of the fact it came in a Honda package.

Offline markreimer

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #246 on: September 27, 2016, 04:52:56 PM »
The only way to know for sure if it's the 'Early gasket' is to open up the package,you'll be able to tell.
The best way to keep it from leaking w/o sealant is to have the head surface lightly(.004) 'skimmed' and also keep re-torqueing the head in a cross pattern at regular intervals.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Coldsmoke

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #247 on: September 30, 2016, 10:10:01 PM »
The ancient gaskets with rhe sealer on them are quite unmistakable as they appear to have a layer of rubber cement on the entire gasket. Regardless, either way, Permayex #2 should be applied to both sides to avoid certain rework due to leaks.
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #248 on: October 01, 2016, 05:57:34 AM »
The ancient gaskets with rhe sealer on them are quite unmistakable as they appear to have a layer of rubber cement on the entire gasket. Regardless, either way, Permayex #2 should be applied to both sides to avoid certain rework due to leaks.

The orig. oem gasket w/ the thin adhesive bonded to it is real thin,if you use any gasket spray,etc. make sure it's applied very lightly.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline markreimer

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Re: Frame-up cb350f restoration, hunk o' junk transformation
« Reply #249 on: October 01, 2016, 11:07:05 AM »
Well this gasket feels pretty smooth and hard, not tacky or rubbery or sticky. I'd say it's quite likely this is NOT one of the original adhesive gaskets then. Guess I'll use some sealant then.

All ready for the rebuild now. Just have to wait for access to the shop, should be happening soon.