Topic: Jakal cb550 project

[Darren Jakal]

Yea Fan,

This old wire is pretty stiff, but becomes better when it's warmer. I try to be gentle and hope.

I might have to go your route at some time, but for now I'm only replacing missing things and stuff that is obviously damaged. We'll see how the electrical holds up.

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

I've been trying to research some things about the cb550 wiring changes over time (mine is a 1978) and it has been hard with the site down, so thanks to all that make this site run !

Anyway I'm just going to start putting things here so I can find them again.

First thing I needed to clear up was that I have single filament front signal lights whereas the 1978 550 has 2 filament lights as the front are used as running lights. Thanks to members here I think I should be able to simple plug in the lights to the solid Light Blue and Orange wires and forget about the Blue/White and Orange/White wires.

My Winker Buzzer seems to have been removed so I'll need to figure out if there will be any issues there (the Blue/Brown wires).

I have an empty black wire (double) that come out of the plug that connects to the Right Side Controls (Run/Off Switch and Start Button labeled Start/Stop Push Start in the photo) that I don't know what it connects to. See picture attached.

And here is some good info I found from a member.


From “bollingball” here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=106617.0

mono Don't know if you have seen this but it gives a good general idea of what Honda was trying to do with the colors. The black wires are geerally switched power. Power starts out red at the battery goes through a sw. like the key or other sw. then turns black.
Big thanks to Jonesy

Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 05:19:06 am »More from Jonesy:

(I put this together after a few questions about the wiring in these bikes. Some suggested this be put in the FAQ. Hope this is helpful.)

Here’s a general wire guide for the 70’s Honda SOHC/4’s. Some of this may be different for the 650 (I’m mostly familiar with the 350, 400, 500/550 and 750) or bikes factory-equipped with electronic ignition. Consult your manual for specifics.

Main Color/Tracer Stripe Color- Description (Approximate Path, if Applicable)

All Circuits
Red- Constant Hot From Battery (Battery Terminal-Main Fuse-Key Switch)
Black- Switched Power Supply Buss (Throughout motorcycle)
Green- Ground (Throughout motorcycle)

Lighting
Brown- Tail Light Power (Main Switch-Tail Light)
Brown/White- Instrumentation Backlighting (Lighting Switch-Instruments)
Orange- Left Turn Signals (Turn Signal Switch-Front/Rear Signals)
Orange/White- Left Front Marker (Light Switch-Marker Lamp)
Light Blue- Right Turn Signals (Turn Signal Switch-Front/Rear Signals)
Light Blue/White- Right Front Marker (Light Switch-Marker Lamp)
Gray- Pulsing Power for Signals (Flasher Relay-Turn Signal Switch)
Blue- High Beam Power (Hi/Lo Switch-Headlamp/Indicator Lamp)
White- Low Beam Power (Hi/Lo Switch-Headlamp)
Brown/Red- Fused Headlamp Power (Fuse Box-Hi/Lo Switch)

Ignition
Black/White- Coil Power Supply (Cutoff Switch-Coils)
Yellow- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 2&3 (Right Points-2&3 Coil)
Blue- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 1&4 (Left Points-1&4 Coil)

Starting/Safety/Monitoring
Blue/Red- Oil Pressure Signal (Oil Pressure Switch-Indicator Lamp)
Red/Green- Neutral Switch Signal (Neutral Switch-Indicator Lamp-Safety Unit)
Green/Red- Clutch Switch (Safety Unit-Clutch Switch-Starter Button)
Green/White- Horn (Horn Button-Horn)
Yellow/Red- Solenoid Signal (Starter Button-Solenoid/Safety Unit)
Green/Yellow- Brake Light Power (Front Brake Switch/Rear Brake Switch-Brake Light)
Brown/Blue- Turn Signal Pickup (Turn Signal Beeper-Turn Signal Switch)

Charging (3-Phase External Excitation Systems)
Yellow- Stator Coil Output (Stator-Rectifier)
White- Field Coil Supply (Field Coil-Voltage Regulator)
Red/White- Positive Rectifier Output (Rectifier-Battery)

**NOTE- I pieced this together from referring to wiring diagrams I have. This is meant as a general guide and will vary between models/years. If anyone spots an error or omission, please post it and I will correct it. Thanks**

A few more thoughts that may help people:

Another learning I found useful in troubleshooting various circuits was knowing which sides of the circuits are impacted by switches, etc. Typically, most circuits on these bikes can be thought of as having 2 "sides"- a "hot" side (power from the main buss activated by the key switch), and a ground side. For example, the lighting on these bikes (head, tail, gauge, running and turn) is all controlled by a switch (or switches) on the hot side of the circuit, while the ground side of the circuit is always complete.

Basic Circuits controlled (switched) on the HOT side of the circuit:
-Headlight (Both Hi and Lo Beam)
-Tail Light
-Brake Light
-Turn Signals
-Marker Lamps (if equipped)
-Starter Motor (heavy-gage wiring switched by the solenoid)
(Note: while they don't break circuits under normal circumstances, the fuse(s) are all located on the hot sides of their respective circuits.)

Basic Circuits controlled on the GROUND side:
-Neutral Light
-Oil Pressure Light
-Starter Solenoid
-Horn
-Starter Safety Unit (As best I can tell, all sensors are on the ground side)

Special Case: Ignition
Under normal operation, the ignition coils are activated by the breaker points, which are on the ground side of the coil circuits, as the coils are fed constant battery power while the points interrupt the ground side. However, the emergency cutoff switch is located on the hot side of the circuit, coming into play by cutting the battery power to the coils.

And, That Age-Old Question...
...Does it matter which order I connect the yellow wires coming from the alternator to the rectifier? No. There is alternating current being carried by these wires and the diodes in the rectifier take care of sorting out the positive charges from the negative ones.

Ok that's it and one pic of the bike mocked up as of now.

Cheers Darren

another thread that may be of use:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=177074.0

[Darren Jakal]

I'm trying to get this project finished and have been researching a variety of subjects, but dam Photobucket sure has #$%*ed up a lot of great threads. For a while I was wondering how so many people can take so many #$%*ty photos until I realized that Photobucket is intentionally blurring them. Makes it a bit frustrating!

Anyway, thanks to everyone for providing such great info. Only wish the photos were still good.

Cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Wow been a while.

I'd like to get this project on the road and so I have just finished assembling the last of the main electrical components. Of course the "refurbished" generator parts I bought (and polished) didn't get put on because the oil sender unit wire was broken. I played around with reconfiguring the parts I have from the roller I bought last year but finally just put the old stuff from the roller on as what I really want to do, before I go any further, is check the oil pressure.

I’ve not done anything to the engine except clean it up and check it out. When I had the engine out I took off the oil pan and cleaned up the screen and checked the hose etc. It looked pristine, so it’s don’t fix it if it isn’t broken. But how do I know that it’s not broken if I have never had it running.

So, I removed the spark plugs and outside tappet covers, hooked up a battery and the oil pressure light and neutral lights came on. I thought I would spin the motor quickly to see if the oil light would go off, but after probably 4 or 5 seconds the light still didn't go out and I chickened out and stopped. I looked in the tappet cover holes and could not really tell if any oil was present. I tried spinning it once more for a few more seconds and said enough. I know not to get too excited and #$%* something up.

I replaced the tappet covers, fogged the engine again and replaced the spark plugs (I fear things getting down the holes). I checked the oil level and it is a bit low so I will open all the tappet covers and spay some oil in the top end before I try spinning the motor again.

I did some searching and found some good info on this subject but if I could ask any questions they would be:

Will the oil light go out by spinning the engine with the starter motor? How long should it take?

I assume you could do damage to an engine by spinning it with the starter (no spark plugs), but how long would it take if you liberally pre-oil the top end?

Is it worth pulling the chain cover and pulling the oil sender unit and spinning the motor to see if oil comes out of the hole? Oil coming out this hole still doesn’t mean that oil is getting to the top end though, right?

What kind of pressure gauge will fit into the oil sender unit hole? and is this something worth doing?

I will say that the head had quite a bit of engine oil gunk from an obvious leak somewhere so I take that as a good sign that 1) oil has been getting to the top end and 2) that no one has fixed the leak (and used bad sealers that clog oil orifices) as they would have cleaned up the engine at least a little bit when they did this.

I still have many little knit picky things to finish like electrical work and some fabrication to finish the lights. Need to finish the rear sets, make a license plate holder and find some #$%*ing lubricant for the brake piston seal (where do you find this stuff???). Oh, and do the final cleaning of the gas tank. Get to it.

Anyway, thanks for dropping by ! Always look forward to seeing what people are up to on this site and what a great resource for fixing up these old bikes.

cheers, dj

 

[Darren Jakal]

Raybestos Brakes Assembly Fluid

McKay Brake Caliper Assembly Lube

Castrol Red Rubber Grease

I would like to get the front brake finished but I’ll be dammed if l can find any assembly lube for lubing the piston seal that isn’t a huge tub for $60 dollars. I need like a dab.

Anybody have a Canadian source for any of the above in reasonable sizes?

Cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Still at it.

Side panel cover models. These are styrene and are just for fitment and form development. I am still working it, but right now it fits and has enough volume to provide for the electrical triangle components. I don't have a cover for my fuse box so I'll need to make something.

Now I need to finish a license plate holder (with light) and do a final tank clean. Still looking for some greases and such.

later, dj

[RAFster122s]

You can use brake fluid to lube the seal if you cannot find the rubber grease or brake assembly fluid. Do you have NAPA parts stores near you. They stock and can get many uncommon parts and supplies.

[Darren Jakal]

Hey thanks RAF. There are NAPA stores around I will give that a go. Yea, I will eventually just use brake fluid if I can't get the right stuff. I am trying to do it as "right" the first time as I can.

Cheers, dj

[754]

Check with my buddy in Calgary.
 Will pm his number,  he may have something or know where to find.

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks 754, got your pm will try him.

dj

[Darren Jakal]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20034.0

placeholder so I can find this again.

[Darren Jakal]

Getting things up to street legal requirements. Got a license plate holder that can fold up to allow the seat to open.

Lights are all there, but some dodgy indicator sockets may need some attention. I'm going to try starting it without the headlight and tail light fuses and focus on the main electrical components for now (I rigged up a new set of in-line fuses that I hope make things work better, we will see).

I finally mounted the roller engine to the stand, so now I can figure out what to do with it.

I think I may start another thread to get some opinions, information and even advice, if anyone is willing.

cheers, Darren

[Darren Jakal]

Opinions, information, and even advice on what to do with the 550 roller engine.

It came out of a 77 cb 550k.

Came with nothing above the barrel, not seized, but the kick starter shaft was not attached.

I removed the oil pan when I discovered the sealant that was squeezed out everywhere.

This revealed some minor damage on the oil pan mating surface.

I bought the roller mainly because I wanted the rear wheel, as the one on my bike is not from a 550. But now that I have it I figure I may as well do something with it. I would be happy to have another engine as a spare. I'm playing with the idea of trying to save one of these bikes a an original and make the other into a period racer and perhaps try out some racing in the future. So, I'm now leaning towards splitting the roller engine cases because of what I have seen.

If I do this then I would be looking at best bang for the buck modifications that could be done and keep within period racer guidelines.

I know, search button, and I have, but I figure if anyone has an opinion I would listen,

cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

With all the smoke I had some time and looked a little closer at the roller engine.

The OP was a bit hamfisted as shown by some damage to the oil filter mating surface and on the one piston.

The blue sealant goop and the fact that I cannot see any light at all through the oil feeder orifice is not a good sign I don't think.
 
At least I found all the parts to the kick starter shaft (minus the outer washer).

Later, dj

[754]

As soon as I see that on a motors I know I am rolling the dice.. and I have rode it anyway..
 And after a while , might have been the next year... it ate a cam and rockers.,

 I you open it now , you may not need to replace anything. 

[Darren Jakal]

Yea 754, I will split the cases and clean it all up. The motor in the runner looks much better as I don’t think anyone was in too deep.

Cheers, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Had some time (and needed to check machines) so I made a cradle for the engine stand to split the cases. Happy to have planned to upgrade the stand when I first made it.

Later, dj

[Darren Jakal]

Found some more ham fisted evidence on a mangled dowel pin. Always makes me wonder what is the history of this machine. Some one clearly split the cases and closed them up using some blue sealant. The oil orifices where clogged so maybe a cooked top end (and why it's missing).

Anyway, I was glad to get the flywheel (or whatever it's called) off so I can replace the seal once it's split. I never did get the one on the runner off and I really tried hard with a gear puller and a big threaded bolt.

That' it, dj

[rb550four]

 You didn't want to take that bolt out before you put on the flywheel puller? Might take a while to get it apart.

[Darren Jakal]

Sorry, I’m not following. The bolt is just loose enough to allow the flywheel to pop off. On this engine it came off relatively easy.

Not the case with the “runner” engine. Tried this way and tried the threaded type puller but it wouldn’t budge, so I just cleaned it up and went with it.

On this engine I expect to replace the seals and wanted to get the flywheel off before I split the cases. Seemed that it would be easier to do it now on the stand.

Cheers, dj

[rb550four]

DJ, it didn't look like the bolt was backed out in the pic to me. my bad. I have had luck with presquirting wd 40 on everything a night before backing that bolt out and squirting it again  , reinsert the bolt  just short of  bottom ,then after turning the flywheel remover until it feels really tight (loaded), I bump the nut (solid tap only ) on the tool with a hammer and see if it'll tighten up a little bit more and bump it with a hammer again , it usually takes about 3 bumps  and it pops off. Haven't had to use other methods yet but if I had to I suppose I would try a freon like spray and or a little heat too, anything not to damage the crankshaft. I just got caught up on your thread,  nice work happening here for sure.

[Darren Jakal]

Hey rb, thanks for your interest in my project and thanks for your comments! That picture was taken just after it popped off.

Yea, I tried just about everything to get the flywheel off my other engine including a lot of heat, penetrants, and some “bumps” with a hammer. Eventually I realised that I didn’t really need to get it off as it is just a hunk of metal and nothing can really go wrong with it and I was thinking that I was going to break something if I kept going.

I just got caught up on your thread,  nice work happening here for sure.

I’ve enjoyed your builds as well !

Cheers, dj

[rb550four]

DJ , I've had brake pedals on my mind and while strolling threw the shop I noticed that the 84  650 nighthank  on the lift has a cast pedal that sticks out as far as the 76's does and it's already shorter than the 550 650 s  , But the spline is a smaller diameter at the spline. It's not apart so I can't tell if the area that receives the grease would be able to fit well in the 550 frame or if it would take a bushing........or if maybe a larger nighthawk may have a similar pedal with a correct size mount... I just know that availability might be better for acquiring one of these over the 76/77 pedal if you were gonna alter it anyways. Okay, now it's out of my mind and I'll go onto the next thing and get out of your hair for a while.

[Darren Jakal]

Thanks again for all your help. I'm not in a hurry and I think I may be able to find a cast pedal that was thrashed in a crash at one of the used motorcycle shops in town. At least I hope!

Anyway, cheers, dj

[754]

You can always cut yours off , then weld on a tab with 2 holes. Then make a pedal out of a piece of aluminium plate...like 1/2 inch thick.  If the tab is shaped like a channel  to help hold the brake arm, 1/2 would work.