Topic: I guess the Ducati isn't so easy to ride fast afterall

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Only a very select few, including current test rider Casey Stoner have been able to wring top competitive speed out of the Desmosidici GP__.

Lorenzo seems to be awakening to the fact that his riding style might not be the best marriage with the Duc

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/oh-sht-lorenzo-look/

[Duke McDukiedook]

Sounds like Tiger and those crap Nike clubs they insisted on him using. Killed his swing.

[BomberMann650]

Takes a while to get used to a different bike.

But what about the jap and italian rides are different?

[GV1390]

Stoner should come back so he can settle unfinished business with the Italian man and to see how he stacks up against MM. I'm glad Ducati isn't the choice for JL. Time to suck it up and deal with it like Rossi did. MV is really showing how strong he is, I'm sure MM is shaking in his boots.

I'm planning a trip to Misano, Italy this year for the GP race, the home track of Rossi!

Wish I had the connections @IrishCBRacer has! He gets to hang out with the LCR team as he knows the owner. Lucky guy!

[demon78]

Their major problem is they didn't ask me nicely ( with enough money).
Bill the demon.

[MikeSimon]

But what about the jap and italian rides are different?

Everything. Twins vs 4s. Powerband, braking nature, handling, Cg, etc.

The Desmosedici is not a twin.
In most cases, for the riders, the major difference in the bikes is the way the traction control is designed and set up. It varies quite a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer and it makes it difficult for the rider to adjust to when he comes off a different bike.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Exactly Bill. 

When the hell did Ducati switch to V4s? I thought that was Honda's domain to rule.

[MikeSimon]

The Desmosedici (= desmo sixteen for sixteen valves) was first introduced in 2002 and started to compete in WSB in the 2003 season. It was sold also as a street legal bike to private customers for a price tag of around $75,000.- making it the most expensive Ducati to buy.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Correct. Ducati Corse has always campaigned V-Twins in World Superbike.

In 2003, Ducati began racing its V4 Desmosidici in MotoGP.

The Yamaha M-1 has a reputation as being the best handling bike in MotoGP.  Lorenzo has a very precise and smooth metronomic riding style in which he carries lots of corner speed.

The Ducati, by comparison, has had a recent history of front end problems (not turning well and/or lacking front end feel), but has a very stout V4 with probably the best drag power down the straights.  Andrea Iannone (now with Suzuki) and Andrea Dovizioso had some recent success riding the Desmo.  Casey Stoner is the only rider to win a Ducati MotoGP championship (2007), where MANY failed before and after; he was able to ride the Desmo like a raped ape.  This was in the era of 800cc MotoGP motors.  Stoner as one of Ducati's current test riders is still faster than Lorenzo on the same bike. 

The Honda RCV is much better balanced, but had its share of problems with last year's engine and chassis.  This year, they have switched from a screamer firing order to a big bang.  Mark Marquez can find ways to go fast on almost any bike. 

Many foresee a rivalry this year between Marquez on the Honda and Maverick Vinales on the Yamaha.  If Stoner was racing the Ducati, it might make for an even better match-up.

[GV1390]

I agree completely, Don! Stoner won't come back....he was afraid of the alien (MM) from the start anyway. Although I'd obviously like to see Rossi do well this year, I am still stoked to see how Maverick does. Kid is talented.

[MikeSimon]

Yes, sorry, it was an error. Desmo16 was a MotoGP bike, not WSB. It is still not a twin.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I agree completely, Don! Stoner won't come back....he was afraid of the alien (MM) from the start anyway. Although I'd obviously like to see Rossi do well this year, I am still stoked to see how Maverick does. Kid is talented.

Hmmm.  Respectfully, I disagree about Casey Stoner.  I don't think he is afraid of anyone.  To the contrary, HRC pissed off Stoner in his last year as its test rider because he WANTED to race in place of an injured Dani Pedrosa, but HRC said, "Thanks but no thanks."  It is rumored that HRC said no at the behest of Marquez's people.  The official story was that it would create unrealistic expectations for Stoner, but he had none (according to his interview).  Rather, somebody high in the Marquez camp seemingly did not want the risk of a retired test rider crushing HRC's golden boy.  That would have been a good race -- especially on identical equipment.  Both can ride the piss out of a bike. 

FYI - this is coming from a guy who is not a fan of Stoner the man, but cannot deny his riding talent.

[GV1390]

I agree completely, Don! Stoner won't come back....he was afraid of the alien (MM) from the start anyway. Although I'd obviously like to see Rossi do well this year, I am still stoked to see how Maverick does. Kid is talented.

Hmmm.  Respectfully, I disagree about Casey Stoner.  I don't think he is afraid of anyone.  To the contrary, HRC pissed off Stoner in his last year as its test rider because he WANTED to race in place of an injured Dani Pedrosa, but HRC said, "Thanks but no thanks."  It is rumored that HRC said no at the behest of Marquez's people.  The official story was that it would create unrealistic expectations for Stoner, but he had none (according to his interview).  Rather, somebody high in the Marquez camp seemingly did not want the risk of a retired test rider crushing HRC's golden boy.  That would have been a good race -- especially on identical equipment.  Both can ride the piss out of a bike. 

FYI - this is coming from a guy who is not a fan of Stoner the man, but cannot deny his riding talent.

I am personally not a fan of Stoner or MM but I will surely not deny the talent that they both have. I really hope Stoner comes back some day before the old man retires, could be fun especially with the young talent in the game right now.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I agree completely, Don! Stoner won't come back....he was afraid of the alien (MM) from the start anyway. Although I'd obviously like to see Rossi do well this year, I am still stoked to see how Maverick does. Kid is talented.

Hmmm.  Respectfully, I disagree about Casey Stoner.  I don't think he is afraid of anyone.  To the contrary, HRC pissed off Stoner in his last year as its test rider because he WANTED to race in place of an injured Dani Pedrosa, but HRC said, "Thanks but no thanks."  It is rumored that HRC said no at the behest of Marquez's people.  The official story was that it would create unrealistic expectations for Stoner, but he had none (according to his interview).  Rather, somebody high in the Marquez camp seemingly did not want the risk of a retired test rider crushing HRC's golden boy.  That would have been a good race -- especially on identical equipment.  Both can ride the piss out of a bike. 

FYI - this is coming from a guy who is not a fan of Stoner the man, but cannot deny his riding talent.

I am personally not a fan of Stoner or MM but I will surely not deny the talent that they both have. I really hope Stoner comes back some day before the old man retires, could be fun especially with the young talent in the game right now.

Sadly, the Doctor's best days are not in front of him.  I think he will still win races, but another championship will be a tough ask.

[Rookster]

Stoner's retirement had nothing to do with fear.  He retired because he thought Dorna put riders at risk in favor of profits and he had recently become a father.  There were underlying issues where he felt he was used by Dorna as well.  That is a principled man right there to give up millions at the prime of his career.  I have nothing but respect for Casey Stoner.  I think he also wanted to get into racing cars but that didn't seem to pan out for him.  I would like to see him come back as well but I don't think it will ever happen. 

Scott

[bwaller]

+1 Rookster, if Stoner ever had a desire to return to the mix it would be short lived. I'll bet he can survive  quite well just slightly in the background and not under the incredible pressure. Any manufacturer with Stoner in the test saddle gets top notch rider feedback. The little I know about the Honda race program is from years ago but I wonder, to a certain extent, if the mentality continues. They build race bikes and expect their riders to make them winners. This is just my speculation but I wonder if Stoner would have been frustrated as a test rider under this system.

Yamaha has (nearly) always tried to make their racebikes easier to ride. Think back to the early lines of 2 stroke racing twins, "on rails" they were.

Honda always seemed to find aliens to win on bikes that were less than rider friendly, but it's alway been exciting watching Honda come up with the next piece of exotica.

This is the appeal GP racing brings, which track better suits which bike. Sure the technology "trickle down" is obvious, rider favorites that we can follow in real time is fantastic. Not that long ago we had to wait for the next Cycle magazine to get race results!

2017 should be fantastic. New entries joining the fray is great and hopefully a tightening of competition will keep us glued. 

OK, I'm long winded. 






 

[simon#42]

the final motogp practice times from quatar



1.   =   Maverick Viñales   ESP   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)   1m   54.330s   [Lap 33/60]
2.   =   Andrea Dovizioso   ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17)   1m   54.401s   +0.071s   [27/43]
3.   ^3   Dani Pedrosa   ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)   1m   54.469s   +0.139s   [46/50]
4.   ˅1   Jorge Lorenzo   ESP   Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP17)   1m   54.519s   +0.189s   [29/53]
5.   ˅1   Alvaro Bautista   ESP   Aspar MotoGP Team (Desmosedici GP16)   1m   54.714s   +0.384s   [46/65]
6.   ^10   Scott Redding   GBR   Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP16)   1m   54.750s   +0.420s   [58/62]
7.   ˅2   Jonas Folger   GER   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)*   1m   54.807s   +0.477s   [45/53]
8.   ^4   Cal Crutchlow   GBR   LCR Honda (RC213V)   1m   54.821s   +0.491s   [64/70]
9.   ˅2   Johann Zarco   FRA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)*   1m   54.900s   +0.570s   [46/52]
10.   ˅2   Marc Marquez   ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)   1m   54.990s   +0.660s   [12/47]
11.   ˅2   Valentino Rossi   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)   1m   55.185s   +0.855s   [40/54]
12.   ^6   Andrea Iannone   ITA   Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)   1m   55.284s   +0.954s   [52/54]
13.   ˅3   Karel Abraham   CZE   Aspar MotoGP Team (Desmosedici GP15)   1m   55.333s   +1.003s   [39/39]
14.   ˅3   Alex Rins   ESP   Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)*   1m   55.362s   +1.032s   [43/64]
15.   ˅2   Aleix Espargaro   ESP   Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP)   1m   55.451s   +1.121s   [24/33]
16.   ˅2   Jack Miller   AUS   Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V)   1m   55.455s   +1.125s   [62/69]
17.   ˅2   Loris Baz   FRA   Reale Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP15)   1m   55.539s   +1.209s   [30/36]
18.   ˅1   Danilo Petrucci   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP17)   1m   55.556s   +1.226s   [27/44]
19.   =   Sam Lowes   GBR   Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP)*   1m   56.167s   +1.837s   [35/36]
20.   =   Tito Rabat   ESP   Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V)   1m   56.294s   +1.964s   [48/52]
21.   =   Bradley Smith   GBR   Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16)   1m   56.351s   +2.021s   [42/56]
22.   =   Pol Espargaro   ESP   Red Bull KTM Factory Racing (RC16)   1m   56.471s   +2.141s   [21/51]
23.   =   Mika Kallio   FIN   KTM Test Rider (RC16)   1m   56.891s   +2.561s   [40/45]

Read more at http://www.crash.net/motogp/results/241822/1/qatar-motogp-test-times-sunday-final.html#d6VGtsW86uXEHpuh.99

[GV1390]

Mav is dominating out there so far. Taking 1st at each test location. Going to be another fun season!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Maverick is one fast bastard. 

Qatar has a very long straight (I believe the longest straight of all the GP circuits) that really allows the Ducati to use its straight line grunt.

[simon#42]

no not the longest mugello and texas are both longer , it is unusual in the fact that it only has one straight and a lot of technical corners
it is traditionally  a yamaha circuit they have won 7 gp's . ducati have only won 3 and the last was in 2009

[bwaller]

Sure young Maverick will be a good producer for Yamaha. I hope it's a good tight season.

I'm a bit disappointed with Big H and their Superbike. I know Nicky's entering his twilight years and Bradl is new to the Superbike concept, but it seems to me they tossed up another "also ran". Where's the Honda of old?

[Zunspec]

Sure young Maverick will be a good producer for Yamaha. I hope it's a good tight season.

I'm a bit disappointed with Big H and their Superbike. I know Nicky's entering his twilight years and Bradl is new to the Superbike concept, but it seems to me they tossed up another "also ran". Where's the Honda of old?

Honda are rumoured to be replacing the in-line 4 with a V4 as their top sports bike.  I would love to see Mr Hayden have a chance with that.

Cheers  Geoff

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Sure young Maverick will be a good producer for Yamaha. I hope it's a good tight season.

I'm a bit disappointed with Big H and their Superbike. I know Nicky's entering his twilight years and Bradl is new to the Superbike concept, but it seems to me they tossed up another "also ran". Where's the Honda of old?

Unfortunately, Big Red is mostly run by bean counters.  No brass ones since Soichiro died. 

The new model CBR is anemic and the electronics are a huge step behind.  Nick Hayden, John McGuiness and Guy Martin will all be behind the 8-ball.  Honda does have the resources to make a game-changing bike, but their focus is sales of commuter and adventure-esque bikes.  YES, there is a strong rumor (with recent patent filings) that it will FINALLY build a homologation special V-4 superbike, but it'll likely be too little too late for Hayden.  That guy can still ride hard and he could probably surprised people if he had a competitive bike to ride. 

The WSBK Honda Ten Kate Honda Team is NOT a factory team -- in contrast to HRC's Repsol Honda MotoGP Team. 

[Zunspec]

The era of the full on sports bike either in 600cc or 1000cc are maybe coming to a close. Sales volume speaks for itself and certainly to the manufactures. They will spend their development money where the sales are at the end of the day.  That V4 Fireblade replacement may never see the light of day.

Cheers  Geoff

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The era of the full on sports bike either in 600cc or 1000cc are maybe coming to a close. Sales volume speaks for itself and certainly to the manufactures. They will spend their development money where the sales are at the end of the day.  That V4 Fireblade replacement may never see the light of day.

Cheers  Geoff

Very true.  Sport bike sales are in the tank.  Naked bikes and adventure bikes are hot right now. 

Still, a true HRC V4 Superbike would be amazing.