Topic: Static timing question... can't get marks to line up-- 74 cb550k

[kippstakes]

I decided to make an attempt at doing a static timing on my cb550 yesterday using this video...

...as reference.
The problem I'm having is that the timing marks are way off (ahead of/to the right of) the F/fire line when the light comes on, for both 1-4 and 2-3. In fact, the timing mark on the case lines up with the TDC marks on the advancer instead. There is no way I can accommodate for this deviation by rotating the point plates, it's just way too far off the mark.
Am I doing something wrong/missing something?

Thank you

[firebane]

I decided to make an attempt at doing a static timing on my cb550 yesterday using this video...

...as reference.
The problem I'm having is that the timing marks are way off (ahead of/the the right of) the F/fire line when the light comes on, for both 1-4 and 2-3. In fact, the timing mark on the case lines up with the TDC for each piston set lines instead. There is no way I can accommodate for this deviation by rotating the point plates, it's just way too far off the mark.
Am I doing something wrong/missing something?

Thank you

Have you set the points gap before trying to set the timing? How worn are your points?

[kippstakes]

I'll set them tonight if I have time and get back to you.
0.014''/0.4mm for this bike-- correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks

[firebane]

I'll set them tonight if I have time and get back to you.
0.014''/0.4mm for this bike-- correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks

Yup .014 and set at their widest opening. Then focus on getting the timing set afterwards. I find using a light works best.

[b52bombardier1]

The points gap is also prone to change as you retighten the screw. So recheck the gap again for accuracy.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[jonda500]

The range is 0.3-0.4mm / 014-016 thou's. Set to the larger gap(.4mm or 016) as this will advance the timing to fix your issue and because the gap will get smaller over time with use.
John

[kippstakes]

Done but still not there. Points are set to 0.4mm and cleaned up, however advancing the points plate full clockwise still only brings the timing mark about half way bt TDC and the F mark I'm shooting for.
Question:  is the light supposed to go off when the breaker is openned manually? Mine doesn't.

[HondaMan]

Done but still not there. Points are set to 0.4mm and cleaned up, however advancing the points plate full clockwise still only brings the timing mark about half way bt TDC and the F mark I'm shooting for.
Question:  is the light supposed to go off when the breaker is openned manually? Mine doesn't.

It should, if you have it connected right, go ON when the points open and OFF when they close. (I'm presuming you are connecting it directly across the points...). Also: remove the sparkplugs while doing this, as it is much easier on the points cam and also easier to turn accurately.

[kippstakes]

I'm attaching one lead to a chassy ground and the other to the junction of the condenser/coil wires (left side for 1/4 right side for 2/3). I will try to attach a picture.

[firebane]

With the ignition turned on and points gap set you should have the light go off when you reach 1/4 on the F mark and same for 2/3.

Now setting my points I found very little movement makes a big change. Also a couple of other things.. Make sure your spark advance is setup correctly and is the correct one for your bike.

[Spanner 1]

Very first thing to do when you take off the points cover is to shine up the point faces. Looks like your points are dirty/corroded/pitted. Even a slight film of tarnish will cause intermittent and false timing observations. 'Looks clean' does not get it when that Neg, (-) side of the coil needs to be grounded to produce a spark at the plugs. Try that.

[Spanner 1]

Also are you aware how to set the 14 thou gap on the points ?..... Here's how ( no exceptions ! ). Turn the crank to the F 1-4 mark, then turn ( clock ) to 90 deg. past the F mark. This is where you set the ( nice clean, shiny ) points gap to 14 thou. Repeat for 2-3 points. Turn  F mark past 90 deg. and 14 thou. gap.

[kippstakes]

Very first thing to do when you take off the points cover is to shine up the point faces. Looks like your points are dirty/corroded/pitted. Even a slight film of tarnish will cause intermittent and false timing observations. 'Looks clean' does not get it when that Neg, (-) side of the coil needs to be grounded to produce a spark at the plugs. Try that.

That was just a pic I found on Goog images for demonstration purposes. My points should be spotless, or close to it. I hit them with fine grade sand paper and then cleaned them with a business card and acetone.

[kippstakes]

Also are you aware how to set the 14 thou gap on the points ?..... Here's how ( no exceptions ! ). Turn the crank to the F 1-4 mark, then turn ( clock ) to 90 deg. past the F mark. This is where you set the ( nice clean, shiny ) points gap to 14 thou. Repeat for 2-3 points. Turn  F mark past 90 deg. and 14 thou. gap.

Thanks, I didn't realize there was way to ensure the points were full open-- I was just eyeing it. Much appreciated.

[Spanner 1]

Yep, that's the place where the points cam has it's max 'lobe' and opens the points the most.... and where Honda says the points gap needs to be 14 thou.

[firebane]

Also are you aware how to set the 14 thou gap on the points ?..... Here's how ( no exceptions ! ). Turn the crank to the F 1-4 mark, then turn ( clock ) to 90 deg. past the F mark. This is where you set the ( nice clean, shiny ) points gap to 14 thou. Repeat for 2-3 points. Turn  F mark past 90 deg. and 14 thou. gap.

Thanks, I didn't realize there was way to ensure the points were full open-- I was just eyeing it. Much appreciated.

To go 1/4 to 2/3 is 180 degrees.. Half of that is 90. Most people just eyeball it.

[kippstakes]

With the ignition turned on and points gap set you should have the light go off when you reach 1/4 on the F mark and same for 2/3.

Now setting my points I found very little movement makes a big change. Also a couple of other things.. Make sure your spark advance is setup correctly and is the correct one for your bike.

I'll check on the spark advance tomorrow and get back. Considering how far off I am from the mark I had considered that myself, but thought it wasn't possible for the advance to turn and knock the timing off since it's locked into the crank case. I could be wrong here.

[kippstakes]

I'll also confirm gap clearance with the 90' from Fire trick tomorrow. Thank again for the tip.
I've done a lot with bikes, but points are not my forte in case you can't tell, so I appreciate it.

[firebane]

I'll also confirm gap clearance with the 90' from Fire trick tomorrow. Thank again for the tip.
I've done a lot with bikes, but points are not my forte in case you can't tell, so I appreciate it.

If you have take the spark advancer apart it can be put back together wrong.

[kippstakes]

I'll also confirm gap clearance with the 90' from Fire trick tomorrow. Thank again for the tip.
I've done a lot with bikes, but points are not my forte in case you can't tell, so I appreciate it.

If you have take the spark advancer apart it can be put back together wrong.

I see. If that were the case it would explain a lot. The bike has always ran I bit rough.

[Spanner 1]

Trying to set ign. timing with the ignition 'on' is not ever a good idea. The battery will drain PDQ especially with the later bikes that don't have a headlight 'on-off' switch. Better is always a digital meter and no power ( ign. off ) checks.

[kippstakes]

Trying to set ign. timing with the ignition 'on' is not ever a good idea. The battery will drain PDQ especially with the later bikes that don't have a headlight 'on-off' switch. Better is always a digital meter and no power ( ign. off ) checks.

I have a headlamp switch installed, for starting purposes mostly- it comes in handy at times like these though. Also I have a spare car battery on hand that I jump the bike to for supplemental 12v power during diagnostics that require non-running power. Without it I'm sure the bike batt wouldn't last too long, so valid advice definitely.

[Deltarider]

That video is rubbish. Trying to set the timing without first verifying the breakerpoints gap, makes no sense. It's a tragedy that so many after consulting a manual start twisting the plates at all. Especially Clymer and Haynes manuals have to fill pages and so often describe things like if the bike has been totally apart, but they do not often give common sense tips for simple everyday maintenance. The truth is that back then, professional mechanics at Honda workshops seldomly touched the timing plates at all. They just adjusted the breakerpoints gap to have the timing right again. This makes sense, since practically all 'offtiming' originates from an incorrect breakerpoints gap. It is mainly among amateurs that everybody seems eager to start twisting the plates where in many cases it had been better to have left them as they were. Now that they've been moved, you have to go the full route.

If you have take the spark advancer apart it can be put back together wrong.

I see. If that were the case it would explain a lot.

Easy enough to check. Have a look at the pic below if you will. At rest the little carve in the rim of the cam should face the hole (both encircled white).

[kippstakes]

That video is rubbish. Trying to set the timing without first verifying the breakerpoints gap, makes no sense. It's a tragedy that so many after consulting a manual start twisting the plates at all. Especially Clymer and Haynes manuals have to fill pages and so often describe things like if the bike has been totally apart, but they do not often give common sense tips for simple everyday maintenance. The truth is that back then, professional mechanics at Honda workshops seldomly touched the timing plates at all. They just adjusted the breakerpoints gap to have the timing right again. This makes sense, since practically all 'offtiming' originates from an incorrect breakerpoints gap. It is mainly among amateurs that everybody seems eager to start twisting the plates where in many cases it had been better to have left them as they were. Now that they've been moved, you have to go the full route.

If you have take the spark advancer apart it can be put back together wrong.

I see. If that were the case it would explain a lot.

Easy enough to check. Have a look at the pic below if you will. At rest the little carve in the rim of the cam should face the hole (both encircled white).

Fair enough, and the full route is just fine with me- I'd rather do the whole job and be sure everything is in order.
I have seen that picture before and wondered what it represented-- thanks for explaining it.
Back to the bench with me.

[kippstakes]

Okay it looks like my chine mark is properly aligned- see pic, and nothing is stuck or hard-moving. The mystery thickens.