Author Topic: Oil Cooler Thread (Read 156107 times)

TwoTired · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2005, 04:45:50 PM »

Hey Zeke,
If you use a spin on filter, then you don't use the bypass valve in the stock oil filter bolt, right? It's supposed to relieve at 21 lbs of pressure differential so a plugged filter won't block oil flow.

How, where, did you find the specs for an equivalent spin on type?

Also, I read about a guy who tested a bunch of spin on type filters. He found the quality control on the bypass valves dismal. Many of the relief valves either didn't work or leaked badly and allowed unfiltered oil to skip past the filter altogether. Also, some auto filter have anti-drain back valves that often leak. This can lower delivery pressure to the oil galleries. His testing showed Fram and rebranded copies to be among the worst offenders. What good quality brands have you found for your bike?

You might want to check out:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
Cheers,

Zeke · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2005, 08:08:03 PM »

The filter adapter that I got from Terry for my 80 650 is the same that is used on the 750s.

I'd guess that it's also the same for the 500s. Basically, you pull the Oring out of your Honda Filter Housing (or get a new one) and used the brass bolt that terry sends with the adapter. It's hollow, threads into the block to hold on the adapter, and then is also threaded on the outer end to accept you filter.

There's pretty much dozens of filters that would work on this adapter. I took mine to an auto parts store and opened a bunch of boxes and screwed them on until I had one that was as big as the stock filter. I could probably go bigger. Since the sealing surface of the adapter is flat and wide the range of filters is huge. AND, they don't get stuck. When I went to remove the stock filter to put this adapter on, it wouldn't come off. I tried everything: cheater pipe, heat, cold, etc..... and ended up grinding off the bolt head.

Since I'm not using a cooler yet there is simply a length of 1/2" hose between the cooler supply/return fittings.

You could use any type of motorcycle cooler -- but try to get fittings with it -- I'm having trouble figuring out what to use with mine...

A few weeks after I bought mine from Terry (shipped from Oz) I saw like three used ones for sale on Ebay for less$$ -- but this one is great quality and looks good.

As far as the stock relief valve -- as far as I know you don't use it. As often as you should change the oil in these bikes you've got more serious issues if you ever plug the filter. Sheesh. I have been using Fram filters because they are readily available -- a PH16. PH30s also fit. Again, if you are changing your oil in 1500 miles I doubt there's anything to worry about -- besides, these filters are sold by the millions and if there was a serious problem with them don't you think people would be sueing fram?

Anyway, maybe it's worth looking for a better source for filters, but they are certainly easier to come by than the stock filter.

out

Zeke

kghost · « **Reply #27 on:** June 09, 2005, 08:30:32 AM »

Just my two cents,

I put a cooler on mine because it gets 100+ degrees in South Texas.

Oil temp in the tank (which is what matters as this is your "in" oil temp) was 92 C after a vigourous flogging on a 98 F day. Measured with a k type thermocouple submerged in the oil of the tank.

10+ years of Aircraft maintenance on Aircooled engines (185 cubic inch to 2800 cubic inch) has convinced me cool oil is better than hot. Universally across the board the upper limit in aircooled aircraft engines (same construction as motorcycles E.I. Aluminum cases, steel cylinders, aluminum head) is about 100 C. Thats the limit on Pratt and Whitney radials, Wright radials, Continental and Lycoming opposed engines

No coolor bypass is used on mine. Temp here rarely go below 50 F. If you are concerned about not having one, go to a lighter vis. oil (or a multivis.) when its cold outside.

Cooler size will regulate oil temp under most conditions. The bigger the cooler and the more cores (thickness) the more cooling. Pick a size based on your prevailing conditions. Almost all regulators only bypass the cooler until operating temps are reached. Then thier wide open. They don't generally cycle open and closed. If they do your coolers probably too big for ambient temps.

I seriously doubt you'll be riding down the road with temps below 32 F / 0 C. Ice and snow tends to make motorcyling a tad bit sporting. I wouldn't worry too much about starving the engine of oil. Use a light vis. for winter and don't rev the piss out of the engine when its warming up.

hymodyne · « **Reply #28 on:** June 09, 2005, 12:21:32 PM »

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if the plate adapter for the '83 650 night hawk oil cooler will fit the block of a 72500K1. same question for the elongated bolt too...

many thanks,

hym

Einyodeler · « **Reply #29 on:** June 09, 2005, 03:09:07 PM »

`82 through `85 CB650 Nighthawks use the same oil filter and housing so it should fit.

Robert · « **Reply #30 on:** June 09, 2005, 05:01:15 PM »

0n a h0t day I have 250 F/120°C measured with a PT100 in the 0il filler cup, l0ts 0f st0p and g0 in the aftern00n here in Hamburg
s0rry my 0-key is brken (that's n0t a j0ke)

hymodyne · « **Reply #31 on:** June 09, 2005, 06:32:06 PM »

where can I get the elongated filter bolt? the cooler I picked up on ebay doesn't look like It comes with one. Will the bolt work on my stock filter?

hym

TwoTired · « **Reply #32 on:** June 11, 2005, 02:01:22 PM »

Quote from: Zeke on June 07, 2005, 08:08:03 PM

I have been using Fram filters because they are readily available -- a PH16. PH30s also fit. Again, if you are changing your oil in 1500 miles I doubt there's anything to worry about -- besides, these filters are sold by the millions and if there was a serious problem with them don't you think people would be sueing fram?

I think the lack of law suits stem from the fact that it is sooo hard to prove in court that your engine life was shortened because the filter didn't keep the oil as clean as it should have. And, that it was the sole cause. Besides, how many people crack open the filter to examine it's contents for debris OR quality. Those that do simply switch to a brand they find has acceptable quality. Caveat emptor!

Hey, Zeke, can you tell me; with your adaptor, do you know if the cooler is fed oil from before or after filtering in the oil flow path?

Cheers,

MRieck · « **Reply #33 on:** June 11, 2005, 02:22:40 PM »

Cooler is fed oil before filtering. The more expensive Fram units are not bad. I think Amsoil and K&N oil filters are about the best (IMO).

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #34 on:** June 11, 2005, 04:58:00 PM »

Well I was a bit slow to reply to this post, so already my learned colleagues have answered all of your questions James, re: the spin on filter debate, most of the big motorcycle manufacturers use spin on type filters on modern bikes now, I just bought a couple of fancy chrome filters for Suzuki's that I might adapt my centre bolts to fit on future coolers, these filters are smallish in size, but the cores would be a tad larger than our OEM Honda items. If there's a concern with aftermarket filters, then I'd use a genuine Honda OEM spin on filter?

I'm not convinced though that there's anything wrong with the popular Framm filters, we don't see many Framm's here in Oz, Ryco is the more common brand here, and I use them on my cooler adapter with no problems, and as far as longevity goes, I've been using Ryco's on my wife's old Ford for the last 13 years and it's done well over 400,000 Kilometers (250,000 miles) without the head ever coming off. Of course if you're that worried about spin on filters that you continue to risk running an ancient aircooled engine in summer without a cooler, I also make an adapter so that you can use your OEM filter and cover.

Regarding price, well you can always find a bargain on ebay for a used cast "pot metal" cooler adapter, with no guarantee as to fit or quality of construction, or even whether it works, and if you want one let me know, I've got several hanging in my garage that I'll sell you cheap. If on the other hand you'd prefer a fully machined 6061 T6 alloy hand built adapter that does work and will probably outlast your bike, pony up the dough guys, and I'll make you something that you'll be very happy with. My adapters cost $75.00 plus shipping, and I'm always surprised when some of you guys baulk at that price, I reckon for every 10 enquiries I get, only 1 person actually follows through with a purchase, so what price peace of mind? Obviously a lot less than 75 bucks, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

MRieck · « **Reply #35 on:** June 11, 2005, 06:07:19 PM »

I've got 2 adaptor plates from the late 70's to early 80's. The Lockhart piece is better than the other but Terry has a point...they are cast and they don't allow the spin on filter. I'm not kissing Terry's ass here but his piece is nice....nice isn't free or cheap.

kghost · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2005, 02:47:50 AM »

$75 is a bargain compared to taking something to the machine shop and having them make one.

Killer Canary · « **Reply #37 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:47:34 PM »

Is anyone interested in an oil cooler adapter for a SOHC?

eldar · « **Reply #38 on:** July 20, 2005, 04:02:40 PM »

Gee I guess I am looking for the whole cooler. If you know where I could find a cooler, besides ebay cause they never have them when I look, I would consider the adaptor.

Killer Canary · « **Reply #39 on:** July 20, 2005, 09:47:14 PM »

I couldn't find anything around here at all, so I had to machine my own adapter and bolt.I stayed with stock housing and filter because the fins on the housing make it look like it has inherent cooling ability,still looks stock.

Killer Canary · « **Reply #40 on:** July 20, 2005, 09:50:26 PM »

No wreckers in your area?

mcpuffett · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:38:25 AM »

hi all ,i have 2 750's one has the adapter to run a spin on oil filter only ,and the other i bought off terry which allows me to run an oil cooler and a spin on oil filter ,for filters i went to my local halfords with my adapters and opened box's till i found something that fitted ok

and i use a lockhart oil cooler mounted up where the horn should be mick.

mcpuffett · « **Reply #42 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:20:58 AM »

here you go

mcpuffett · « **Reply #43 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:37:19 AM »

and here is the other one

MRieck · « **Reply #44 on:** July 21, 2005, 04:17:37 PM »

I see our friend Terry has improved the design a bit (bevel on the OD). I guess my unit is worth more as it is an "original".

alfabeast · « **Reply #45 on:** July 21, 2005, 04:43:55 PM »

I've got a Hayabusa oil cooler mounted behind the carbs, it actually cools quite well because my legs funnel the air into it, it really does help drop oil temperature, I run the return oil through it.

I run a small lockhart on my cafe, but the Haybusa one runs noticably cooler.

jbailey · « **Reply #46 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:45:31 PM »

you should be able to get a cooler at most any auto parts store. Get the smallest they make. Attaching it to the frame should be easy. It's the adapter that would be hard to get.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #47 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:57:01 PM »

Not at "Terry's House of 6061 T6 Billet SOHC-4 Oil Cooler Adapters", ha ha! Check this: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~sherriffbuck/gallery.html Cheers, Terry.

mcpuffett · « **Reply #48 on:** July 22, 2005, 04:20:18 AM »

hi mrieck,the first photo is terry's adapter before i connected the oil cooler and the second photo is one i got off ebay from a guy in canada

mick.

bryanj · « **Reply #49 on:** July 22, 2005, 07:23:33 AM »

Here in UK Fram filters cant be that bad 'cos all those ford Motorcraft filters come out of the same factory!!!

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Author Topic: Oil Cooler Thread (Read 156107 times)

eldar

alfabeast