Author Topic: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?  (Read 3542 times)

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Offline Sheep

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Dear all,

First, thanks to all of you on here.  I'm a complete novice - don't have a licence or a big mechanical background but people let me poke about human with a knife so hopefully I'm a quick study.  I've have had a hankering for an old bike for a while.  Browsing these forums has wound up with me buying a 1978 550 imported from the US and I'm looking forward to getting it on the road and learning along the way.

It came with no battery but the guys at the shed fired it up with a battery on the solenoid and spray into the airbag for a few cycles, so I know it sparks and runs...
..so, I thought I'd ask my first bit of advice:  What's the bare minimum I should do before I put in a fresh battery and kick it over?  Here's what I've come up with so far...

Spark:
- New plugs
- New battery
- Check for spark.

Fuel:
- New fuel lines, in-line filter and use a clean plastic fuel tank (not the one that's on it as there's some light rust there).
- Connect the above and see if the carbs leak.  Pull and fully clean if so (assume this'll be needed at some point, but ok to at least try to see what they're like first?)

Misc:
- Oil and oil filter change.  Cry if metal or water comes out.


If that all results in life...
- Clean points & check gap
- Check tappet clearance
- Check compression - rebuild engine if off
- Strip & clean carbs
- Change fork oil
- Service breaks
- Grease bearings


Think that just about covers everything I can think go that'd give me a working bike that won't immediately kill me.  The idea would be to get it UK registered at that point and poodle about gingerly as I rebuilt it properly (fully strip & rebuild front end, back end, engine etc.).

All advice / links welcome,

Cheers,

Steve.
1978 CB550

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 10:14:53 AM »
Welcome to sohc4.net

Please grab a manual and take a seat  ;D

Best way to get to know your bike right now, grab a toothbrush and clean it.
Every square centimeter.  Know your bike, love your bike, become the bike.
But enough dramatics.  Give it a thorough exam and take note if anything seems odd.

78 was a good year for 550's.  Have you got any pictures to share?

Your approach to cleansing the fuel system is not how I would do it.  No point futzing around with dirty old tank and carbs.  If the bike sat for any length of time there is no point in trying to force it to run.  Especially if there are signs of rust.  Just clean everything to shiny perfection and go from there.

Offline flybox1

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'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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Offline Scott S

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 10:28:02 AM »
 I would do the points and valves BEFORE starting it. And if the tank is iffy, I'd at LEAST pull a fuel bowl and see if the carbs need cleaning beforehand, which they probably do.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 10:44:36 AM »
Bare minimum is put in a new battery.
Honda made the bike with a perfectly good in the tank filter.  Unless you're a belt and suspenders kind of guy,  make sure the in tank filter is intact.  If you need more than one fuel filter, why?  And then why not four or five?
If there is rust in the tank, deal with that first.  An in line filter for rust is just a band aid/ deferment of a problem waiting to happen.
Drain the carbs and inspect what comes out.  If Clean, proceed. Brown and clunky, remove a carb bowl and look inside.  You should tell upon visual if further action required.  There should only be gas inside.
Do check the oil.  Smell it.  Should not smell putrid, or be grey. Translucent even if black is ok.  If there is something that looks like brown mayonnaise,  you found water.  Best drain out and start afresh.  Make the front brake work. Check rear brake.  After you know that it has good oil and gas, run it!

Check trans operation and clutch operation.  Air the tires, check the chain, and drive it listening for nasty noises and drive ability issues. Get acquainted.
These things are pretty robust. Don't take stuff apart until symptoms indicate need.  Honda built their engines better than almost anyone, mechanics included.
If your drive about went ok,  then perform the entire 3k mile tune up check list.

Enjoy the bike.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Smudgemo

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 12:01:40 PM »
Seems like by now there ought to be a definitive list of stuff to do when someone acquires a non-running bike that could be referred to.  I'll also note that if your starter button is broken, it can be fixed pretty easily with a 3D printed replacement part my neighbor and I created.  Start a build thread in the project section and you can ask more questions as they arise and keep them confined to a single thread.

Good luck!  I was in your shoes just under a year ago when I found a '76 550 that wasn't running.
-Ryan

Thread - How to fix your starter button (for real): http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,163170.0.html

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 12:47:45 PM »
People so far seem to have you sorted well. I'll just add that if the compression test turns up low, don't jump to doing a top end refresh just yet. It's likely going to be low due to rusty rings not sealing well. After a couple hundred miles of running the compression will improve.

Welcome!


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Offline uksparky

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 12:54:59 PM »
When the plugs are out add a few oz of thin oil....marvel mystery oil works....lube the rings/cylinders, turn engine over
Present bike 1982 900C Custom

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 04:29:59 PM »
Apparently Risolone Ring Seal oil additive is safe to use in motorcycles with small doses.  Worked pretty swell in my old truck.

Offline geoluv

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 05:26:58 AM »
Last year I bought a basket case cb550 that haden't run for between 20-30 years.  It runs almost perfect now, put 2 thousand miles on it since.  Not one hiccup. 

This is how I revived mine for very little money:
1.First check for spark and make sure the pistons aren't seized.   You already did this. If it sparks you don't need new plugs or wires or caps or coils until later.
2.Next make sure you're not missing any air box parts and get a new Emgo paper filter.
3.Change the oil filter and oil and use Castroll t4 motorcycle oil. 
4.Adjust cam chain slack. 
5.Use a currency tester or multimeter to check the static timing of the engine. 
6.Check tappet clearance. 
7.Clean all electrical contacts on the bike, or as many as you can. 
8.Clean the inside of your gas tank and install viso-filters with the brass element. 
9.This is the hard part: completely rebuild the carbs.  You most likely won't need new jets just new o-rings unless there is extensive damage from corrosion. If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself then take it to someone who is familiar with old Japanese carbs.  It's not that hard if you are a mechanicly inclined person just watch all the YouTube videos and download the service manual.  You have to rebuild carbs if it's been sitting for a while.  My emulsion tubes were packed with gunk.  Might have caused damage from one or more cylinders running too lean if I tried to ride it before rebuilding the carbs and making sure all the tubes and holes were clear.  Be very careful with the bowls as the brass overflow tubes are delicate and brittle, do NOT blow them out with compressed air (ask me how I know).
10.After you get the carbs back on fill her with gas and fire her up!

These are just instructions on how to safely start the engine to see if something else is wrong that needs attention.  These sohc Honda engines are build like a brick sh!t house.  my guess is it will run fine after you do these things.

To actualy RIDE the bike you have to literally check every bolt on the bike and rebuild the forks, install the AllBallz cartridge headset, make sure all the lights work and convert ALL of them to LED if you ride in the city because the alternator is underpowered. Also make sure the wheels/tires are safe and rebuild the front brake caliper and master cylinder and replace rubber line with steel braided line, and replace rear brake pads if they are more than 5 years old because they desintigrate.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:23:27 AM by geoluv »
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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 08:29:58 AM »
When I woke up my '77 after a 28 year nap (with what was probably almost a full tank of gas when it was stored) I did pretty much what geoluv outlined, except I didn't bother with the 5 or 7.

I would add to replace the fuel lines with fresh rubber now vs later. Also before you do more than test rides around the block install new tires, tubes, and rim strips. You don't need fancy tires for these bikes. You can get a set of Kenda or Shinko's for less than 100GBP.

#1 on my list would be to empty the tank, pull out a small flashlight and inspect the inside carefully for rust or gunked up old gas. If you need to clean the tank remove the petcock and take out the small filter that is inside the tank. If often stays stuck inside when you pull the petcock, but it is there. Remove it carefully and clean it with carb cleaner. Leave it out while cleaning the tank as it is easily damaged.

The oil brand isn't really that important, just make sure it is motorcycle specific oil that is suitable for bikes with wet clutches. I would personally recommend conventional vs synthetic. But in any event stay away from car oil as it includes various additives that will mess with your clutch, which shares the engine oil.

The carb's aren't bad to rebuild, but the PD style carbs on the '77 and '78 models are a bit different than the earlier carbs, so when you order a gasket set make sure you get the correct ones. You don't have to separate the carbs to clean them, but you can do a more complete job if you do. It took me 2 weekends to do the job. Take your time and do them one at a time and it should be fine. Definitely re-use your old jets. if your kits come with new ones (get gaskets only if you can) just set them aside. The sizes of the holes in the non-OEM brass are not reliable and can mess with your ability to get the bike to idle and run properly.

Take your time and be systematic.

There are some tools worth buying. Vintage Japanese bikes like this use screws with a JIS head. It looks like a Phillips style, but is actually slightly different, and the difference often leads to stripped screw heads. Spend the money on a set of JIS screw drivers, they can save significant aggravation and stripped screws. I would also pick up a valve lash tool. It's a special tool for setting tappet clearance. You can use regular feeler gauges, but the dedicated tool is not expensive and makes the job MUCH easier. They come in a couple size combo's, so make sure you get the right one for your bike (.5MM/.8MM I think).

You will likely need fork seals, they are cheap and easy to install. The Allballz upgrade is nice, but if your fork steers smoothly, not necessary. Both my prior '77 and my current '75 have the original ball bearings in them. As long as they are properly adjusted they work just fine.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline Sheep

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 08:37:39 AM »
Guys,

Thanks for all the input. 

Drained the oil to find the oil filter bolt had already been stripped, so will Dremel that out as I haven't access to a welder.

Pulled the carb this morning and it's pretty nasty.  Will give it a good go myself but think it's destined for an ultrasonic bath once I get the chance.  Currently in about a million bis on the living room floor.

Here's a picture.  Chassis and engine numbers say 1978 but tank, seat and maybe carbs (semi-circular bowls) say earlier?  The exhausts have to go too!

S.
1978 CB550

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2017, 09:38:14 AM »
Definitely a 'bitsa' (a bit of this and a bit of that).

That isn't a stock rear wheel either. Somebody swapped in a Harley style 16" rim. This is a fairly common mod on these bikes. Personally I would source a proper 18" rear wheel myself. A wheel from any CB500 or CB550 will work. It isn't necessary though, the wheel you have will work.

There is a carb model # inscribed on the bracket that all the carbs are attached to. It should be located on the right (kick starter lever) side of the bike.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline Sheep

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 09:40:31 AM »
Would "ALG" mean anything?


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1978 CB550

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 09:41:57 AM »
This is what a stock '77 looks like.  The '78 is basically identical except the seat, which has a step in it.
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Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2017, 09:44:41 AM »
No. It should say something like 022A
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2017, 12:57:05 AM »
Good idea to clean the rear drum, wear a good dust mask to keep from breathing in the asbestos possibly in the brake linings...

If you replace the rear hub be aware there are two different ones used on the 550, the brake backing plate that holds the drum brakes is different and the two do not mix and match the backing plates and rear hubs.
Good idea to lube the pivot on the brake drum, removing it from the backing plate, and give everything a good scrub. A bit of sandpaper taken to the drum surface isn't a terrible idea... Just to knock off any corrosion. Might as well get it cleaned without having to clean up the wheels twice... given the first good application of the rear brakes should scrub that off.

I would rather clean it up by hand than have the brake shoes do it.  Scuffing the pad surface to kill any glazing there and the drum brake surface is a good idea. You also can see the condition of the rear brake shoes.

Check your spokes to ensure they all ting the same when you strike them lightly with a wrench.  If they don't sound the same then you likely have a spoke not tightened to proper tension.  Giving your wheels a spin with a screwdriver handle very close to the rim edge braced against the swing arm (with bike on the center stand) can tell you if the rim has a warp in it that needs trued.

Since you have bitsa of many models, do not assume your rear drum is the correct one for a '78.  The '74-76 were different than the '77-78.

Welcome and good luck. A bit of Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders is a good idea and giving it a couple days to lube and leak down into the oil... It will help free up your rings if they have a bit of corrosion.  As others have said, don't presume your initial compression is accurate for a bike that has sat. Make sure you do it right and not all Auto compression gauges give readings that are correct for a motorcycle. You are looking for lack of variation between cylinders and normally the compression will come back up after being ran again for a while... (weeks not hours).  Even things like smoking or other seemingly ill signs are not necessarily something to be alarmed about.
May be a good idea to check your cam chain adjustment as well...  Too loose it will give you lots of noise.

Read the manual and read the manual again. Ask questions where you need to...

Searches from Google using site:forums.sohc4.net will return results from this forum.  If you haven't read the sticky post about the search and visited the FAQ sections of the forum, familiarize yourself with them.  Educating yourself on the part names is helpful as well if you are not familiar with Honda's nomenclature/motorcycle nomenclature.

Welcome to the site and 550 ownership.

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Sheep

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 09:56:42 AM »


Quick question:

Should the hole through this, from the bottom at the flat-headed screwdriver head to the tip, be patent?

I can get a needle in both ends but all four are blocked in exactly the same place, which makes me think they're not supposed to connect?

Thanks,

S.


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1978 CB550

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 10:08:39 AM »
Thats a normal pilot jet.  Just dirty and old.
Drop the all the brass jets in a bucket of berrymans chem dip for 25 minutes. 
They'll come out looking brand new 😁😁

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2017, 10:20:52 AM »
If I understand what you're asking, the holes you've pictured are the emulsion tube holes.  The jet orifice is in the middle of the barrel.  You should see light through it when looking from either end.
The hole is tiny 0.016 inch. And has approach ramps.  Neither should be altered.

If you round off the end of a .010 guitar string, it should push out enough crud for an immersion cleaning without damaging the ramps or the precision orifice.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Sheep

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2017, 10:51:57 AM »
Cheers guys.  Will give it a go.


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1978 CB550

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1978 CB550 - basic tasks before starting up after a long time?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2017, 11:10:07 AM »
Yes the hole should go all the way through. Like TT said, use some "e-string" to clean it out. I keep several 2 inch long pieces in a plastic bad in my tool box just for this purpose. You should be able to get a piece from a guitar shop for free.
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Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200