Topic: Was "Henry Abe wheels score" ..... Now, questions

[Scott S]

 I saw these wheels listed on ebay with a low starting bid. I emailed the seller and asked if he had a "buy-it-now" price in mind. He responded with what I thought was a very low, reasonable price, so I snagged them!
 They're Henry Abe's, right? Drilled rotor in the deal as well!

[Steve_K]

Great looking wheels!  19 front and 18 rears on the wheels?  I scored 19 and 16 wheels off Craigs lists. came with a parts bike.  I like them and just got tires mounted this week. 
Great Score!
Steve

[Scott S]

 Yes, 19" and 18".
 I also have a set of Lesters in the 19" and 16" combo for another project.

 I don't have the HA wheels in my hands yet. What was the OG finish? Highly polished lips or   Black paint? Satin or gloss or what?

[wildcatmahone]

Cool man! Now tell us all how much you paid for the set so we can be uber jealous. That 18" rear is getting hard to come across for a decent price.

[Scott S]

 Let's just say "cheap"! I paid nearly as much for my front Lester as I did for the PAIR of these.

[AbbyRider]

I saw those on ebay as well. Just in passing - was looking for something else. Those will look great once they're cleaned up. Good scoop!

[lone*X]

+1 Yep, I agree, the rotor is probably toast.  Too many holes, not enough friction surface.  Would definitely run cool though.

[Steve_K]

Mine had no finish on them when I got them.  I saw the one set on Ebay last summer that were still in the box and they looked like they had no finish or possible clear coat.  I saw one other set that had no finish, but some 40 years people do many things to stuff.  I almost PC mine black but scrubbed and  decided they were great as is.
Steve

[Scott S]

 I tried cleaning up the wheels today with mixed results. They're in pretty nice shape, but the lips and rasied edges are machined, not polished. That makes them VERY difficult to get detailed.




 They look better in the pics than in person. There's some deep seated dirt in the machined parts. I tried wheel cleaner, 0000 steel wool and aluminum polish, a couple different grades of mild sand paper and some preps-all solvent. Nothing seems to do the job. I was hesitant to go more agressive with the sand paper for fear that I'd leave sanding marks.

[Scott S]

 The paint, however, is in pretty good shape. When wet, it appears as this neat plum or maroon color.




 My first thought was to keep the original finish, but when they dry out, the color fades and they look a little drab.
 I'm going to talk to my buddy at the body shop tomorrow and see if he has any ideas. I'll probably end up painting the spokes, but I'd really like to clean the lips better if I can.

[Scott S]

 Now, these wheels were removed from a '77 550F. I have all the axles, speedo drive, spacers, etc.
 I'd like to put these on my '71 CB500. I know there is something about the '77-78 K models that makes wheel interchange difficult. At least, with the rear wheel anyway.

 However, upon first glance, it looks like the brake backing plate, etc. is the same as on my '71 CB500.
 How can I determine if the axles, bearings, etc. that are included with the wheels will fit my '71?

[Scott S]

 A little bearing help, please....

 I did a little research and it appears that the rear wheel bearings are all the same. That's good, because I have a new set that I bought for my '78 and didn't use.

 However, Honda lists a different bearing for the front wheel for the '71-73 CB500. All the 550's use the same bearing, which I also have in my posession.
 BUT.....the front axle is the same for ALL 500's and 550's.

 If I want to run the Henry Abe wheels on the CB500, can I still use the 550 bearings? I don't see why not.

 '71 bearing: 96140-63020-10
 '77 bearing: 96150-63020-10

 To recap, the H.A.'s were removed from a '77 550F. I want to run them on my '71 CB500.

[Toxic]

Well you can get a NOS rear only for $600.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Henry-Abe-Seven-Star-Mag-3-00-x-16-Rear-Wheel-Rim-Honda-CB750-Cafe-Racer-/140614272954?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20bd4387ba&vxp=mtr

so whatever you paid it's got to better than that.

[mrrch]

The bearings are the same, Honda puts the size in their part number 6302. The difference is 96140 = sealed one side ,96150 = sealed both sides (then there is 96100 = no seals)

[singedebile]

why not try waxing the paint to get that "wet" look you had.. we did this often with bare steel I beams on staircases to good effect.

[754]

 If its plum or purple looking sounds like anodizing,,think what your master cylinder looks like.
 Try cleaning the machined surfaces with a brass brush...

[Scott S]

 mrrch, THANKS! that explains a lot. Looks like I'm good to go!

 Toxic....say what!?! And that's for a 16"! I have 19" and 18" and I payed less than half that shipped for BOTH wheels! A LOT less!!!

 Singedible and 754, wish I had thought about the brass brush earlier. I left them at my buddy's body shop tonight. He's going to hit them with his soda blaster and give them a fresh coat of black paint. He, too, recognized that was anodizing. It's a cool color.....but only when wet. Otherwise it's dull.

[Greggo]

Scott, if I'm understanding this correctly, and the rear came off a '77 550, I believe you'll need the later year's spacers, and brake plate.  I have a '77-78 spoked 18" 550 wheel on my '71 500, and this is what I needed.  I would bet that the spacers used to fit that wheel on the later 550 were the earlier 500/550 bits, and I can see that it's the earlier brake plate.

[Scott S]

 Either way, I have everything that's already on my '71 as well as the stuff shown in the pics of the wheel. In other words, two sets of axles, spacers, adjusters, etc.

 I know the K bikes had different stuff, but I "think" the F models was the same as what I have.

[SoyBoySigh]

BUMP!

Ooooh - Henry Abe wheels with an 18" rear drum? Makes me wanna go watch MAD MAX 2 THE ROAD WARRIOR all over again! Think I will.....

Seriously though, a set of these wheels really would best be used, should be used, on an early ZED, turbo, with Vetter quicksilver fairing etc - as a "WEZ" replica bike!

How cool would it be, to really get the thing right, nut & bolt using good hi-res pics for a template rather than a fuzzy old black & white TV like so many earlier replicas must've been done from - AND to get the TURBO working right?

Seriously - I'd rather keep 'em on the shelf awaiting THAT possibility, rather than sully a decent SOHC-4 with a too-heavy pair of cast-mag wheels!

Just grab some good light weight Akront rims, lace 'em to the OEM hubs - do the dual 296mm front end upgrade, maybe grab some COMSTAR wheels if you wanted to get all progressive & race-replica with the thing, do it up like a proper late-'70s Honda four-cylinder racing FLAGSHIP - as an RCB replica, in miniature. Plenty of far far better things to do with the BIKE is what all I'm getting at.

But yeah, shouldn't be too much trouble retro-fitting a Kawa front rotor & speedo-drive, shoe-plate on the rear - Would even be feasible to use the Kawa's six-lug cush-drive with the Honda four-lug style wheel - would be well worth doing ANYTHING of that nature, just to dig up an 18" rear drum hub ABE wheel, and mate it to the early ZED TURBO - What fun it would be, to butcher the hell out of that VETTER fairing, too.....

One of the few things which would tempt me into ZED land, actually! Other than the kid's "KZ440LOL" which should've been replaced with a SOHC-4 when it burned to the ground - NOS belt-drive or not, the pulley could've been machined to suit the CB450 DOHC-twin, or a CB350F etc etc - Would be well worth running skinny OEM width rims just to see that fat KZ belt running on a smaller earlier DOHC-4 Honda like a CB750KZ-LTD for instance...... Anything really, just to keep it within the same Honda 'F-amily as so many other bikes I've owned & loved!

So too with the cast/mag wheels - this pair right here, the WEZ REPLICA thing? Just about the only reason on this Earth why I'd want a pair of cast wheels! For a replica, fine - for PRACTICAL purposes, gimme a pair of Comstar wheels, or a wire-spoke alloy rimmed wheel-set!

I realize they were made & sold for the SOHC-4 series, I get it - they're period-correct & everything. But do we have to accept everything the period-Aftermarket offered up? Even the truly bad ideas, like 7-spoke Cast wheels? These are some of the nicer looking examples, don't get me wrong - but they're still sheer & utter nonsense from a performance perspective!

Well - AIN'T they?

Surely they were lighter in the hub area. But whatever mass was conserved inboard, probably more than half of that was moved OUTBOARD - measure the wall thicknesses of wheels of these types, compare 'em to an extruded hoop-bent butt-welded alloy WIRE rim? No comparison - even with steel spoke-nipples, that wire rim's gonna weigh less than the enormous hunk of alloy WAGON-WHEEL's perimeter.

Gonna NEED a 900cc Turbo to push all of that dead weight around.

Or am I MISTAKEN? If anybody's got a set of these, sitting bare without tires, WEIGH the bastids!

Meanwhile, anybody building a set using OEM hubs, sensible lightweight spokes - ideally with coated brass nipples for a true lightweight build - using alloy rims with bead-retention ridges - seal 'em up with Silicone to reflect a MODERN interpretation of "period-correct" which is to say if it's out of sight it's out of mind - kinda like an electronic ignition or some ceramic coatings around the combustion chamber - weigh up THAT pair of wheels.

We should have some proper NUMBERS on this stuff!

Not to obviate the use of 7-spoke cast wheels altogether, but rather - to clarify just when we're doing something for fashion - (Nothing wrong with that, aesethetics are the only reason LEFT to own a Classic in the first place!) I'd just hate to see the new young enthusiasts be taken in by the same advertising from period magazines, as what hooked the FIRST generation of SOHC-4 aficionados - let's judge all of this old stuff on it's MERITS!

I'd love to see something similar done with the brake-rotors, also. Being that the rotor shown above is indeed "over-drilled" having less mass yes but also less surface-area at the same time - It would be nice to break down all of the period braking MODS, including the caliper swaps I suppose - but mostly the rotor drilling versus rotor SKIMMING - If there were some sort of brake testing rig simply mounting rotors on an electric motor & spin 'em up, slow 'em back down again, and measure their temperature & distribution using thermal imaging etc -

I mean, yeah I suppose again there's a certain FASHION - there's an "ideal" ratio of cross-drilling which is in part derived from theory but also at the same FASHION or at least AESTHETICS - But if there's some way of doing the discs BETTER, especially if it boils down to spending the same $$$'s more or less - namely the skimming or replacement outer discs etc - people considering upgrades to these bikes should be given the best possible info, rather than FASHION advice!

I know, I myself I'm quite guilty of it - I'm always ranting about what visions are swimming in my head of "perfect versions" of this or that model. The "hand-me-down" scheme wherein I'm so utterly fixated on upgrading forks & brakes to that of the next-size-up model of bikes, & in the meantime swap out rims for matching diameter pairs in as wide a profile that was available at the time, sometimes suggesting stuff which was FEASIBLE using period-correct components, but surely probably never actually DONE, for one reason or another - probably the absence of decent TIRES for 'em.....

But yeah - either way, it'd be nice to know just how much all of these aftermarket 7-spoke wheels actually WEIGH! And stock steel-rimmed wheel-weights for starters, as the baseline. And while I'm sure it could be calculated based on displacement of water valume versus measuring thickness at certain points across it's width, down the spokes etc - to determine density of the casting alloy, as opposed to the cold-worked (aka cold-"forged") extruded profiles of the wire rims - Surely however, at a certain difference in thickness there's no drawing equivalencies any longer as the profiles couldn't be THAT dense the castings couldn't be THAT porous!



-S.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Thread resurrection!

[jonda500]

The ebay link in reply #12 still works only the price for this 16" henry abe has gone down from $600 to $150! I am guessing the 16" (which I have one of) is far less desirable than the 18"?
John

[Don R]

 That guy bought a supply of those wheels. Some guys like a fat 16" tire on the back, some don't. It's a lot about the look you are going for.

[Scott S]

 Good Lord. How'd you dig up this thread?
 Those wheels were powder coated and used on the STF2 bike. They were sold with the bike.