Author Topic: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?  (Read 3137 times)

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Offline ilikepinkcrayons

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Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« on: September 19, 2017, 05:36:37 PM »
Hey guys,

I've got some metallic pearl effect going on in my engine oil. It's only the second change that I've done since owning the bike (both had pearlescent shimmer), so I'm not genuinely sure of the bike's history (~13,500miles).

I pulled the pan off today to clean out the oil pump screen and found a thick layer of gross metallic sludge at the bottom of the pan (mostly very fine dust like particles). After cleaning that gunk out, I changed the oil. Hopefully the particles are from a previous issue that the PO has already resolved (he changed the clutch plates at ~12,000 miles...maybe it's related?). For the time being I'm not going to panic because the particles may be coming from the residual sludge, and hopefully not from a disintegrating journal or something. I'll ride a hundred miles or so and check again. If there's metal still, there may be an issue.

This made me think...How can I get a really good deep cleaning in my engine internals? If I can start with a fresh, clean engine, it might help diagnose an issue. I typically dump about a quarter can of Seafoam in the oil a few days before an oil change (this time I got 75 miles on the SeaFoam'd oil). Not sure if that actually does anything. Any tips or tricks?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 05:38:16 PM by ilikepinkcrayons »
1968 MGB
1975 CB550K
1981 Volvo 244 GLT

Offline 754

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
Empty your oil filter over a slanted u shaped piece of cardboard  when changing oil. Hold it about 10 or 15 degrees, then check what us on the cardboard, also wipe the filter housing.
 If you do that every change, easier to see if you are getting accelerated wear.
 Spread the debris out on cardboard so it's thin, then run a magnet over it..
 Steel is the worst, aluminum not so bad, black bits may be clutch or rubber tensioner parts.
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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 05:51:00 PM »
Well something is getting ground up inside your motor!  When I spun the clutch in my 550 the particulates were a mix of dark and bright colored material.

Have you verified oil delivery to the top end?  Ever peek at the condition of the cam chain tensioner and guide?  With the pump screen all schmutzed it could have starved the cam shaft of oil.

If you can strain the oil you removed and post a pic of the findings.  That would help the internet diagnostics team.  What you DON'T want to see are large fragments of anything and copper color glitter.

As for cleanouts - fill the case with off road diesel (the red stuff) - remove the spark plugs and kick it over a few times. 

The recommended for oil additives are Zddp plus and lucas oil stabilizer.

Offline 754

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 05:57:10 PM »
It may just be a thin sheen of something on top of the oil.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline ilikepinkcrayons

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 06:19:49 PM »
754: I'll do that in the future. Side question: what's your screen name mean?

I'll strain the oil in a coffee filter and post some picks (might be a few weeks, I'm heading out of town soon).

How do I check for proper lubrication in the top end? There was oil coating the parts the last time I was in there to adjust the tappet clearances. I just removed the 8 tappet covers, but didn't lift the full top-end covers or anything.

How do I check the tensioner and guide? I've only adjusted the tension, but never checked the condition.
1968 MGB
1975 CB550K
1981 Volvo 244 GLT

Offline ilikepinkcrayons

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 06:28:49 PM »
...
As for cleanouts - fill the case with off road diesel (the red stuff) - remove the spark plugs and kick it over a few times. 

The recommended for oil additives are Zddp plus and lucas oil stabilizer.

Oh, and by "fill the case", what do you mean? Like, to the brim of the dipstick hole, or just the 3-3.5 quarts that we typically use for oil?

I'm not intentionally turning this into a "what oil do you use" war, so hopefully it doesn't go in that direction: I've been using I'm not mentioning what oil i've been using 15W-40 with Shell X-100 ZDDP additive, without anything else until just before the oil change. Then I add the SeaFoam, drive for a few days, then change the oil. I can switch to ZDDP Plus after the X-100 is gone, and I'd happily use Lucas Oil Stabilizer as well, since I use that in my cars.
1968 MGB
1975 CB550K
1981 Volvo 244 GLT

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 06:51:01 PM »
A bore scope would let you peek at the tensioner and guide if you poke it thru the holes under the top breather cap. 
Otherwise you'll have to remove the whole rockerbox to see the down the cam tunnel.

I don't know if the x-100 zinc additive is safe for these clutches.

To see oil flow - remove the tappet covers from 1 and 4's intake.  Start the engine and watch.  It should start flowing oil fairly quick.  If it comes up weak, or not at all.  You have a clogged oil jet.

If you decide to do the diesel wash, just put in a gallon at a time.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:56:33 PM by BomberMann650 »

Offline SKTP

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 07:30:09 PM »
A bore scope would let you peek at the tensioner and guide if you poke it thru the holes under the top breather cap. 
Otherwise you'll have to remove the whole rockerbox to see the down the cam tunnel.

I don't know if the x-100 zinc additive is safe for these clutches.

To see oil flow - remove the tappet covers from 1 and 4's intake.  Start the engine and watch.  It should start flowing oil fairly quick.  If it comes up weak, or not at all.  You have a clogged oil jet.

If you decide to do the diesel wash, just put in a gallon at a time.

I ran my engine with the tappets off 1 and 4...get ready to quicky cover them!!! Because for me, oil was shooting all over the place and I determined that meant I was getting oil to the top end
1978k rebuild thread http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68423.0
BIKE OF THE MONTH - OCTOBER 2017
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1997 Honda CR-V
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1966 Honda S90

Offline ilikepinkcrayons

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 10:08:16 PM »
...
I ran my engine with the tappets off 1 and 4...get ready to quicky cover them!!! Because for me, oil was shooting all over the place and I determined that meant I was getting oil to the top end

"Oh, good, it works....OH CRAP, IT WORKS!!! TURN IT OFF, TURN IT OFF!"
1968 MGB
1975 CB550K
1981 Volvo 244 GLT

Offline markreimer

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 08:56:57 AM »
Any idea if the top end was rebuilt shortly before you bought it? There is often a metallic sheen to oil during break-in. That's how my oil looks for the first and to a lesser degree, second oil change after new rings with a hone are installed.

Can you feel anything metal between your fingers?

Offline ilikepinkcrayons

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 10:09:34 AM »
I couldn't feel any particulates in my hands, and I don't know all of the history. :(
1968 MGB
1975 CB550K
1981 Volvo 244 GLT

Offline 754

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2017, 10:38:19 AM »
Crayons.. side note..
Look at the side cover on a cb 750, now read what it says..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2017, 11:25:46 AM »
Crayons.. side note..
Look at the side cover on a cb 750, now read what it says..

Honda?

What you gettin at Frank?

Offline MRieck

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 02:14:34 PM »
 That sheen can indicate bearing problems. As someone mentioned after a rebuild you will get that but it should clear up after several oil changes. If it gets worse you will see little shiny non ferrous that look like small copper/gold flakes (which somebody else mentioned too).
Run it around for a couple of hundred miles, dump the oil, and see if you get the same thing.
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Offline markreimer

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Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2017, 08:20:31 PM »
I don't get what a side cover has to do with this....staring at my 750 now.... what am I missing


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Offline 754

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2017, 08:52:11 PM »
What does the siecover say  read it out loud..
 Back to the oil...... hey it's on top that's good, it would be worse on the bottom, plus it's separating from the oil, not running thru it..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline markreimer

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 05:49:16 AM »
What does the siecover say  read it out loud..
 Back to the oil...... hey it's on top that's good, it would be worse on the bottom, plus it's separating from the oil, not running thru it..
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh got it!!


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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 07:37:43 AM »
With a 550 it could be rockershaft wear in the head giving aluminum in the oil.  Too bad it is not getting strained out by the filter media.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Redline it

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 09:33:47 AM »
the 400's that i've rode since the early 80s, well one of them, the other was in the back yard for 30 yrs until 05, its motor with what looked like less than 3000 miles on it went into the work bike frame. they both always have a pearl sheen that i used to worry about, the one that took over on 05, has (to me) a lot of blowby when the oil dipstick is opened, i ride this bike utterly hard, i don't cut it any slack, i usually shift without the clutch especially if i'm carrying home good junk that people are throwing away these days, or christmas trees, the clutch isn't strong, they aren't from the factory, it doesn't slip but i can't shift any smoother using the clutch half the time anyways, i ride it near red line 80% of the time. at change time 1500 miles to 2000 the oil level will have dropped from full to less than a half quart or half way down the crosshatch on the dipstick, and i got top end oil leaks to account for that much oil. and that's normal for hondas 4s, i had 3 750s same thing, the cases are always shiny, just wipe it off. wear white pants with white boots will show how much it leaks. the oil always has the sheen to make me think it's wearing somewhere, yet the bikes performance only slightly declines slightly until a ignition tweek or a vacuum tweek, in all the years i've had these motors i've had them apart for the weirdest reasons, carbs etc i just recent did a leak down test for the first time, and did a manometer test to set the slides, i've always done it by sound, and they were off a bit, sounded great as i got it perfect, it lasted about 2 weeks and now runs like it always has, consistently well. for a new owner of these things can and will drive you nuts to try and dial it all in. i run em and they keep running. oh the oil sheen feels like silk, i quit worrying about it,  there's always tiny bits of metal, very little amount in oil changes. one of the gears on the mainshaft is notorious for pitting. and these motors are high reving masterpieces,  the screens and filters work. i don't see how new owners with no huge experience in riding and working on these bikes can manage, they're very temperamental, be careful but don't baby it, give it room to run, and get a spare bike for parts.

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 09:39:13 AM »
With a 550 it could be rockershaft wear in the head giving aluminum in the oil.  Too bad it is not getting strained out by the filter media.

That would depend on the amount of shiny.  Rocker wear is very small in comparison.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Pearl Shimmer in My Oil and Internal Deep Clean?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 12:34:11 PM »
You stated you have been using an additive...might it be that dilluted is giving you this sheen?
David- back in the desert SW!