Author Topic: CB750 Wet Sump Conversion - Sumpthing (Read 73050 times)

bwaller · « **Reply #100 on:** February 23, 2018, 05:55:08 AM »

Quote from: Bert Jan on February 23, 2018, 02:53:57 AM

You guys probably know this, but the CB650z oil pan fits on the 500/550 engines. It's deeper also

Done.

NickO · « **Reply #101 on:** February 23, 2018, 06:53:11 AM »

Oil starvation in racing sidecars is compounded by the small issue of having virtually no sump depth to play-with. The regs. for F2 (600cc) state a minimum of 65mm ground clearance, so you can appreciate the problem. The flat sumps do hold plenty of oil, but getting it to stay around the pick-up are a different matter altogether!

I certainly wouldn't like to hand load all the engines that have thrown a rod because of this problem into the (very) big skip that would be required!

The "factory" explanation is normally "an electrical fault". This is because the rod usually snaps the feed wire to the coils as it makes it way out of the cases on it's way into orbit.

Captain · « **Reply #102 on:** February 25, 2018, 07:42:49 PM »

Let me state some reasons that may not be appreciated as to the reasons that the Honda SOHC oil system is as good as it gets.
The pump is mounted directly and sealed (gasket) to the oil distribution plate.
Pump is very low and able to pick-up oil far more easily than others (later models) with the pump mounted higher.
The OEM pump itself has O-rings fitted to the end plates so guaranteeing seal (unlike the metal to metal of later model oil pumps).
The oil pump drive shaft has a seal to further improve efficiency.
The system has a drain check valve to prevent oil loss into the pan during extended periods of non operation so guaranteeing a full head and volume (cannot be matched by wet sump) at start up.
Faster to achieve pressure and flow than wet sump.
Has the ability to remove air from the oil supply better than any other format.
By nature of the design the oil is piped away from the heat source and stored separately so will always provide greater heat transfer capacity.
The cooler (if used) is on the return line (low pressure) which is always preferred over one that is on the mains pressure circuit.
Oil capacity can be lower than with a wet sump.

The above are some of the very important points that make the SOHC Dry Sump one of the most efficient and effective ever made (by any manufacturer) and it is really the yardstick on just how to engineer a system that has no vices. How often has anyone ever experienced an oil problem with a SOHC engine (Unless someone makes an error during assembly).
Finally, the system is 100% ready to go and is already installed on every SOHC that was ever produced and there is nothing that could be improved (other than a more effective tank) for both street to all out endurance competition use......There just hasn't been a better system produced since.

Captain

voxonda · « **Reply #103 on:** February 26, 2018, 04:27:03 AM »

Any comment is very much appreciated by me, Brent. It just does not stop me from trying out things, even if they seem odd.

Rob

voxonda · « **Reply #104 on:** February 28, 2018, 12:00:07 PM »

Anyone knows how can I put on pic's without using Photobucket?

Cheers, Rob

slikwilli420 · « **Reply #105 on:** February 28, 2018, 12:06:59 PM »

Quote from: voxonda on February 28, 2018, 12:00:07 PM

Anyone knows how can I put on pic's without using Photobucket?

Cheers, Rob

If they are small enough you can just add as attachment using the "plus" sign below the reply window. I like using Google Photos via the little Mona Lisa button above the reply window.

Rocketman · « **Reply #106 on:** February 28, 2018, 12:09:10 PM »

I'm using Blogger with good success.

https://www.blogger.com/about/?r=1-null_user

slikwilli420 · « **Reply #107 on:** February 28, 2018, 12:14:14 PM »

Quote from: Rocketman on February 28, 2018, 12:09:10 PM

I'm using Blogger with good success.

https://www.blogger.com/about/?r=1-null_user

The "earn money" portion seems interesting. If I am doing it anyway, might as well get a little something.

voxonda · « **Reply #108 on:** February 28, 2018, 03:06:56 PM »

Quote from: voxonda on February 28, 2018, 12:00:07 PM

Anyone knows how can I put on pic's without using Photobucket?

Cheers, Rob

Test, and it works! Thanks George and the rest of the bunch.

Cleaning out and sorting out oil pumps.

kmb69 · « **Reply #109 on:** February 28, 2018, 03:13:58 PM »

Maybe a little off subject - maybe not.
~~Does anybody know why Honda slowed the oil pumps down, changed the gear ratio, on their DOHC factory road racers?~~

Nevermind, I found it. A trochoid type pump experiences "cavitation" above a certain RPM depending on the design of the inlet/outlet ports and the rotors.

gschuld · « **Reply #110 on:** February 28, 2018, 03:17:37 PM »

That PM I sent was purely selfish. I’ve REALLY enjoyed the photos you’ve posted in the past and we all benefit from you posting more in the future.

George

Captain · « **Reply #111 on:** February 28, 2018, 11:00:31 PM »

Quote from: kmb69 on February 28, 2018, 03:13:58 PM

Maybe a little off subject - maybe not.
~~Does anybody know why Honda slowed the oil pumps down, changed the gear ratio, on their DOHC factory road racers?~~

Nevermind, I found it. A trochoid type pump experiences "cavitation" above a certain RPM depending on the design of the inlet/outlet ports and the rotors.

Which is why I "ported" the supply line oil fitting into the pump , used the biggest bore Kevlar tube and smooth bend AN fittings............... Made a difference.

Captain

63SSRagtop · « **Reply #112 on:** February 28, 2018, 11:50:48 PM »

Got the sump in today, I like it! Can’t wait to get the motor on a stand and start detailing.. thanks Bert!

voxonda · « **Reply #113 on:** March 01, 2018, 01:12:25 AM »

Quote from: 63SSRagtop on February 28, 2018, 11:50:48 PM

Got the sump in today, I like it! Can’t wait to get the motor on a stand and start detailing.. thanks Bert!

Things look GOOD! Have fun.

voxonda · « **Reply #114 on:** March 01, 2018, 01:15:08 AM »

Selected and thoroughly cleaned parts for the oilpump. Now polishing the rotors, clean again and assemble with new o-rings.

voxonda · « **Reply #115 on:** March 01, 2018, 02:17:24 PM »

Selected a bigger oilcooler to work with the wet sump, and designed a bracket for it.

Tintop · « **Reply #116 on:** March 01, 2018, 03:26:58 PM »

Quote from: voxonda on March 01, 2018, 02:17:24 PM

Selected a bigger oilcooler to work with the wet sump, and designed a bracket for it.

Be interesting to know what temp. differential (if any) between dry & wet with your previous cooler Rob.

simon#42 · « **Reply #117 on:** March 02, 2018, 10:20:08 AM »

Quote from: voxonda on March 01, 2018, 02:17:24 PM

Selected a bigger oilcooler to work with the wet sump, and designed a bracket for it.

as we have already been told the oil temp is up to 20 degrees cooler why the larger cooler ?

voxonda · « **Reply #118 on:** March 02, 2018, 11:14:48 AM »

I did not tell you...........havent tested yet, just made sure to have three different coolersizes to use on track if necessary. As soon as I can test it I know where we stand in this for sure.
And I know, that you surely know, riding around town is different than racing a 3hour race.

simon#42 · « **Reply #119 on:** March 02, 2018, 01:34:11 PM »

no you didnt rob it was the person who designed it, made it and possibly even tested it .
good luck with your tests i will watch with interest

dragracer · « **Reply #120 on:** March 02, 2018, 08:51:41 PM »

If the price was not out of my budget range, I would certainly buy this for my drag bike project. Ditching the weight of the oil tank and freeing up space would be a bonus. Of course ground clearance could be a concern.

kmb69 · « **Reply #121 on:** March 03, 2018, 07:21:28 AM »

They have a "discount coupon" option at checkout. Are SOHC 4 Forum members being offered a discount?
Are these kits now on the shelf, readily available for shipping?
I'm thinking about using one for my engine run-in stand.

gschuld · « **Reply #122 on:** March 03, 2018, 07:30:16 AM »

That would simplify things🧐

Just sent you a PM and email BTW Kieth👍

George

voxonda · « **Reply #123 on:** March 03, 2018, 11:55:10 AM »

Ok, things get serious. Med BJ today, a very nice young Dutch bloke and very serious about his job. We spoke about the project and we split up even more enthousiast than before. Got the sump and need to get me some new springs and valve for the pump, to get things organised to assemble..

Bert Jan · « **Reply #124 on:** March 03, 2018, 01:03:16 PM »

Quote from: kmb69 on March 03, 2018, 07:21:28 AM

They have a "discount coupon" option at checkout. Are SOHC 4 Forum members being offered a discount?
Are these kits now on the shelf, readily available for shipping?
I'm thinking about using one for my engine run-in stand.

Hi, to answer those questions..
Virtually every webshop has a 'discount coupon' option. You can buy a cheque through the webshop in case you need a present for a birthday or sumpthing (see what i did there

)
The code provided to you after purchase can be typed in the 'coupon' area to get the cheque's worth's discount.

We offered a EU 50,- discount until March 1st. The kit is now the regular price of 499,-
We provided that discount to the first fast few, as a "thank you for your trust" thing. Other than that, it seemed logically marketingwise to make an introduction offer.
So in short, sorry, no discounts at this time.

The kits are expensive to produce. We don't have the funds (as stated on BOTH websites..) to put 100 kits on the shelves. Kits a produced in small quantities. Ofcourse, all starts are hard so the initial delivery time was not met on the first batch, for which i'm really sorry. The first kits are landing on doorsteps as we speak so we're getting the hang of it. At this particular time, we're 2 kits short to order in a new batch. That's no marketing blabla, it's just how it is.

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Author Topic: CB750 Wet Sump Conversion - Sumpthing (Read 73050 times)