Author Topic: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters  (Read 5016 times)

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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2018, 04:49:00 AM »
The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools, and replaced Him with... nothing. There is a hole in each person's heart that can only be filled by One thing. That is God. We are raising up the Last Generation now. Time Is Short... Get your house in order, as The King of Kings is coming soon. Here is George Washington's Inaugural Address... He knew and understood the importance of God in each area of our lives.

WASHINGTON'S INAUGURAL ADDRESS
OF 1789


A Transcription

                     [April 30, 1789]
Fellow Citizens of the Senate and the House of Representatives.
Among the vicissitudes incident to life, no event could have filled me with greater anxieties than that of which the notification was transmitted by your order, and received on the fourteenth day of the present month. On the one hand, I was summoned by my Country, whose voice I can never hear but with veneration and love, from a retreat which I had chosen with the fondest predilection, and, in my flattering hopes, with an immutable decision, as the asylum of my declining years: a retreat which was rendered every day more necessary as well as more dear to me, by the addition of habit to inclination, and of frequent interruptions in my health to the gradual waste committed on it by time. On the other hand, the magnitude and difficulty of the trust to which the voice of my Country called me, being sufficient to awaken in the wisest and most experienced of her citizens, a distrustful scrutiny into his qualifications, could not but overwhelm with dispondence, one, who, inheriting inferior endowments from nature and unpractised in the duties of civil administration, ought to be peculiarly conscious of his own deficiencies. In this conflict of emotions, all I dare aver, is, that it has been my faithful study to collect my duty from a just appreciation of eve ry circumstance, by which it might be affected. All I dare hope, is, that, if in executing this task I have been too much swayed by a grateful remembrance of former instances, or by an affectionate sensibility to this transcendent proof, of the confidence of my fellow-citizens; and have thence too little consulted my incapacity as well as disinclination for the weighty and untried cares before me; my error will be palliated by the motives which misled me, and its consequences be judged by my Country, with some share of the partiality in which they originated.
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.
By the article establishing the Executive Department, it is made the duty of the President "to recommend to your consideration, such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." The circumstances under which I now meet you, will acquit me from entering into that subject, farther than to refer to the Great Constitutional Charter under which you are assembled; and which, in defining your powers, designates the objects to which your attention is to be given. It will be more consistent with those circumstances, and far more congenial with the feelings which actuate me, to substitute, in place of a recommendation of particular measures, the tribute that is due to the talents, the rectitude, and the patriotism which adorn the characters selected to devise and adopt them. In these honorable qualifications, I behold the surest pledges, that as on one side, no local prejudices, or attachments; no seperate views, nor party animosities, will misdirect the comprehensive and equal eye which ought to watch over this great assemblage of communities and interests: so, on another, that the foundations of our National policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; and the pre-eminence of a free Government, be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its Citizens, and command the respect of the world.
I dwell on this prospect with every satisfaction which an ardent love for my Country can inspire: since there is no truth more thoroughly established, than that there exists in the economy and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness, between duty and advantage, between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnanimous policy, and the solid rewards of public prosperity and felicity: Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven, can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained: And since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of Government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people.
Besides the ordinary objects submitted to your care, it will remain with your judgment to decide, how far an exercise of the occasional power delegated by the Fifth article of the Constitution is rendered expedient at the present juncture by the nature of objections which have been urged against the System, or by the degree of inquietude which has given birth to them. Instead of undertaking particular recommendations on this subject, in which I could be guided by no lights derived from official opportunities, I shall again give way to my entire confidence in your discernment and pursuit of the public good: For I assure myself that whilst you carefully avoid every alteration which might endanger the benefits of an United and effective Government, or which ought to await the future lessons of experience; a reverence for the characteristic rights of freemen, and a regard for the public harmony, will sufficiently influence your deliberations on the question how far the former can be more impregnably fortified, or the latter be safely and advantageously promoted.
To the preceeding observations I have one to add, which will be most properly addressed to the House of Representatives. It concerns myself, and will therefore be as brief as possible. When I was first honoured with a call into the Service of my Country, then on the eve of an arduous struggle for its liberties, the light in which I contemplated my duty required that I should renounce every pecuniary compensation. From this resolution I have in no instance departed. And being still under the impressions which produced it, I must decline as inapplicable to myself, any share in the personal emoluments, which may be indispensably included in a permanent provision for the Executive Department; and must accordingly pray that the pecuniary estimates for the Station in which I am placed, may, during my continuance in it, be limited to such actual expenditures as the public good may be thought to require.
Having thus imported to you my sentiments, as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign parent of the human race, in humble supplication that since he has been pleased to favour the American people, with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparellelled unanimity on a form of Government, for the security of their Union, and the advancement of their happiness; so his divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures on which the success of this Government must depend.
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2018, 05:16:56 AM »
The freedom of the press situation is one I’ve been seeing as I read more about this. But there wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have to be a law for the journalists to not name the shooters. They already abide by these rules for children and sexual assault victims. Just another set of people for them to decide not to name.

One interesting thing I was reading about in a research article linking to various studies, was that the more an event is covered the more likely a copycat will commit a similar act soon. It seems obvious, but it’s interesting to read about. Most shootings have a contagion period of about 13.5 days and school shootings are a little more, like 22 days. It’s actually weirdly similar in pattern to contagion in infectious disease. Police and FBI know this and plan accordingly.

Also, quite a few of the recent shooters have mentioned inspiration from the Columbine event. Some even have little ‘shrines’ to the killers and have even made pilgrimages to the Columbine site.

To arming the teachers, I think that’s the stupidest thing ever to be proposed. First, a recent poll says about 70% of teachers wouldn’t carry even if there was a law saying they had to. And those in the military who run/ran CQB simulations know how difficult and how much training you need to shoot in tight spaces with friendlies running around when no one is wearing “good guy and bad guy shirts”. You want the teachers to do this? Will there be weekly mandatory training? If a student is of legal age should they also be armed? How about the kid who’s mentally unstable that has a legal gun in the school just to shoot people? More guns in the school is NOT the answer, is so obvious.

Also, the more prevalent gun ownership is in a particular area, the significantly more likely a child/young adult will be involved in a suicide or homicide.

Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 05:22:03 AM »
Quote
Also, quite a few of the recent shooters have mentioned inspiration from the Columbine event. Some even have little ‘shrines’ to the killers and have even made pilgrimages to the Columbine site.

That is just sick!

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2018, 05:28:27 AM »
The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more, :)

Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2018, 05:37:58 AM »
Quote
The freedom of the press situation is one I’ve been seeing as I read more about this. But there wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have to be a law for the journalists to not name the shooters. They already abide by these rules for children and sexual assault victims. Just another set of people for them to decide not to name.

That's reasonable if they could get it done.

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2018, 07:33:14 AM »
Well there’s heaps of ideas and plenty of distortions around these events, as always. An AR is easily chosen because it’s a long fun, and persons under 21 can buy them lawfully. It’s a small caliber weapon, not a large bore rifle. It shoots at the same rate of fire as a pistol or shotgun, and is more cumbersome to handle than a pistol.

The single deadliest school shooting was VA Tech, perpetrated by a lone gunman with pistols. Which by the way, was yet another incident where our laws failed to prevent someone from buying a firearm. This incident too, is a shining example where if you expect the State to protect you with laws, you are kidding yourself.

I have not heard anyone advocate to require teachers or faculty to carry, only to permit it where it is currently prohibited. Allowing a competent person who is eligible and willing to be armed, provided the potential for deterring or stopping earlier these incidents.

The most compelling article I have read about these events is that over the past 50 years in the US, more than 98% have occurred in Gun Free Zones. That to me is the simple logical explanation for hardening these sites. You only need to remove that restriction o cause a deterrent. It’s not “that faculty are armed”, but that “they might be”.

As for the likelihood of “mass shooters wanting to suicide” this is not frequently the case. Many teens don’t commit suicide during the shooting. Lanza did not, this hump tried to escape with fleeing students, and so on. More are shot dead than self-inflicted wounds (school shootings).

There is not an iota of guilt on the hands of the NRA so spare me that rhetoric. “Assault Weapon Bmas” have never made a measurable effect on reducing violence or gun deaths. I’m all for making productive changes to address the problem, but most of the prooosed changes in terms of bans and limits won’t accomplish crap (even by those advocates’ own admission).

If you raise the age to 21, how then do you reconcile that an 18yo can serve in the military and defend and protect you, but not be deemed mature enough to own a firearm? If he can’t, then why let him vote at that age? Logic must be consistent in order for it to be legitimate.

We need better enforcement and action on the part of Law Enforcement, and we need to remove the restrictions of Adults carrying in these sites until such time as we can reduce, treat, and eliminate our Mental health crisis and ferret out these evil doers. And stop plastering the media with their escapades. The FL Sheriffs Dept and the FBI need to be held accountable for their lack of action before this occurred. 39 visits to the kids home, numerous warning calls and no action?!?!?! What the Ef?

And let’s keep religion out of the argument. To each their own and there’s heaps of agnostics who are wonderful people that don’t perpetrate evil.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2018, 07:43:30 AM »
Quote
The most compelling article I have read about these events is that over the past 50 years in the US, more than 98% have occurred in Gun Free Zones. That to me is the simple logical explanation for hardening these sites. You only need to remove that restriction o cause a deterrent. It’s not “that faculty are armed”, but that “they might be”.

Was that available online anywhere I could read that article?

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2018, 08:00:42 AM »
Fuzzle,
  Here's a nice editorial about Gun Control and how well it works, say.. in Chicago.

Good piece….
 
Commentary (Wayne Allen Root)

There is only one issue in America this week: the mass murder at the Florida high school carried out by Nikolas Cruz. It was shocking. It was tragic. Unfortunately you’re also only hearing one side of the argument. This tragic mass murder is all liberals can think about because a gun was used to commit such a heinous act.
We’ve heard all week how guns kill, and we need more gun control, and we must ban the specific kind of rifle used in this terrible slaughter. But no one has mentioned that as terrible as it is to see 17 young lives snuffed out on one day, in one place…this same death toll and carnage happens EVERY WEEKEND in Chicago.
The typical Chicago weekend shooting toll is 15 to 20 dead, plus 30 to 50 wounded. I repeat- this happens every weekend. Almost every victim is young- just like those poor high school kids. Almost every victim is black. The city is run 100% by Democrats. It has the strictest gun control laws in the country.
Why aren’t 17 deaths a weekend more important than 17 deaths in one incident? Why doesn’t gun control work in Chicago (or anywhere else)? Why is black genocide happening in a city controlled 100% by Democrats? Doesn’t that concern black Democrats? These are questions rarely asked by the liberal mainstream media after a mass shooting.
Have you heard about the massive violent crime wave in the UK? I’m betting you haven’t. It doesn’t support the liberal narrative. Keep in mind in the UK guns are banned. Yet UK violent crime is exploding and far surpasses violent crime in America. Knife attacks are up by 40%. Should we ban knives? Should we institute immediate “knife control”?
In Mayor Sadiq Khan’s London, robbery was up by 29%, sex crimes up 23%, violent crime up 20%. But worst of all, acid attacks are skyrocketing. The number of victims being sprayed in the face with acid is so prevalent, London police now carry special devices designed for treating acid victims in Middle East war zones. Police admit London is now the GLOBAL CAPITAL for acid attacks. A former Labor Minister admits that there are “no go zones” all over London and the UK where deliverymen will not enter.
There were 5.3 million violent crimes in the UK and Wales last year. Very few of them needed a gun to destroy lives.
Then there’s the issue of FBI incompetence. It turns out Nikolas Cruz was reported to the FBI by a Mississippi bail bondsman last September after Cruz left a comment on YouTube that he was going to be “a professional school shooter.” It wasn’t an anonymous comment. The screen name was Nikolas Cruz. The FBI did nothing. They did manage to follow-up quickly with the bail bondsman after the shooting. Just as in repeated terrorism cases, another major fail for the FBI.
Coincidence? Maybe instead of faking evidence to FISA courts, illegally wiretapping a President, and wasting manpower on a “Russian collusion” wild goose chase, the FBI should be investigating real threats to our citizens.
Two more themes no one in the liberal mainstream media will say out loud.
Isn’t it time to discuss the role of Big Pharma and their mood-altering drugs in these mass murders? It seems like almost every mass murderer has prescription drugs in their system. Are we over-medicating an entire generation of young men with autism and ADD drugs, without acknowledging the changes in brain chemistry? Sure enough, it now appears Nikolas Cruz had autism and may have been taking prescription drugs. Guns don’t kill, but it appears people with mood-altering drugs do. Why won’t the mainstream media allow this debate? Could it be because Big Pharma pays for half the advertisements in the media?
Lastly, isn’t it time to discuss arming and training teachers and administrators for self-defense, so our children aren’t sitting ducks waiting to die in a classroom? Guns in the hands of good people save lives every day. Disarming schools hasn’t worked. As a matter of fact, virtually every mass shooting happens in a “Gun Free Zone.”
“The Great Gun Control Debate” rages. But these are the common sense stories and arguments you’re not hearing in the liberal-biased mainstream media.

Now, I haven't checked the accuracy of this article about the UK, but it can easily be done by those who live there. Let me know! I DO know the facts are in Chicago its open warfare on the streets every weekend... especially the 4th of July, where gunfire can blend in with the fireworks.
Charlie
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 01:31:09 PM by Yamahawk »
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2018, 08:03:05 AM »
The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more, :)

You have the ability to disagree.. now, what are your facts that support what you are disagreeing with? If it is a disbelief that there is an Almighty God, well, thats just not convincing. I Know there Is.
Charlie
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 08:09:33 AM »
Quote
The most compelling article I have read about these events is that over the past 50 years in the US, more than 98% have occurred in Gun Free Zones. That to me is the simple logical explanation for hardening these sites. You only need to remove that restriction o cause a deterrent. It’s not “that faculty are armed”, but that “they might be”.

Was that available online anywhere I could read that article?
the article:
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/2017/02/09/john-lott-gun-free-zones-easy-targets-would--killers/97645622/

The raw data used to support his claims:
https://crimeresearch.org/2014/09/more-misleading-information-from-bloombergs-everytown-for-gun-safety-on-guns-analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings/

Disclaimer: Many find John Lott to be on the side of "guns and Right Wing", yet, in every research article I've seen from him (all based upon crime statistics) his results appear to me to be very accurate based upon the data. He recently also performed an analysis about crime and Illegal Immigrants using data collected for 30 years in AZ (a state which had very good data). Interesting to read his research sometimes, because he is fairly unemotional and data-driven.

You are free to decide for yourself.  :)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2018, 08:12:18 AM »
Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2018, 08:21:31 AM »
Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie
Well "news" is too often skewed in both directions. Sadly, it is now too frequently not "news" but "biased opinions". Fortunately, its presence creates more free time in the garage that was otherwise spent becoming "informed" in years past. (Silver lining)  ;)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2018, 08:31:01 AM »
So....the breaking news yesterday was that there was an armed Deputy at the Parkland school and hid did nothing for 4 min while the shooting was going on.  Coward! He has since resigned.

Would an "armed guard" be a first logical step to do something to stop the madness?

I honestly do not see an end to the horrific tragedies that have been taking place in this country the last few years.

The wife and I are seriously considering selling out and moving way south to live carefree on a beach in Mexico! 
[I'd have to keep at least a couple bikes, but which ones?!]
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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2018, 08:33:57 AM »
So....the breaking news yesterday was that there was an armed Deputy at the Parkland school and hid did nothing for 4 min while the shooting was going on.  Coward! He has since resigned.

Would an "armed guard" be a first logical step to do something to stop the madness?

I honestly do not see an end to the horrific tragedies that have been taking place in this country the last few years.

The wife and I are seriously considering selling out and moving way south to live carefree on a beach in Mexico! 
[I'd have to keep at least a couple bikes, but which ones?!]

Hehe... not a bad idea Steve, but better get a saddle scabbard on the bike, for the AK47 or AR-15 as violent crime is rampant in Mexico... Drug Cartels and the such... Costa Rica might be another alternative.
Charlie
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2018, 08:35:46 AM »
So....the breaking news yesterday was that there was an armed Deputy at the Parkland school and hid did nothing for 4 min while the shooting was going on.  Coward! He has since resigned. Exactly, even when Law Enforcement is available, we can't always be assured they'll perform as needed. They are humans after all, and dashing into a school shooting environment would be "challenging" to say the least.

Would an "armed guard" be a first logical step to do something to stop the madness? Seems logical doesn't it? We protect celebrities, politicians, jewelry stores, banks and stadiums with armed guards, but not our children? Israel undertook this same program decades ago. No issues since.

I honestly do not see an end to the horrific tragedies that have been taking place in this country the last few years. Nothing will change, unless effective changes are made.

The wife and I are seriously considering selling out and moving way south to live carefree on a beach in Mexico! Might want to check their Crime Stats Stev-O. They have a much worse problem than we do currently.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2018, 09:08:14 AM »
Thanks cal good link, I did like the way he was on the facts too!

@ stevo it's not just in your county it's happened here too.

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2018, 09:30:58 AM »
Thanks cal good link, I did like the way he was on the facts too!
He is an interesting guy because while he does offer “opinion columns” they are substantiated by his research. He did a very in depth analysis about crime/gun ownership/restrictions that yielded interesting data.

He was very quick to point out, you can not definitely say that fewer guns causes more crime, and you can not say more guns decrease crime. Despite the fact that the analysis showed this trend and indicator, it was only research, and not evidentiary proof. Much like his assertion about Gun Free Zones. You can only draw the conclusion that anecdotally 98% of shootings have happended there. Is it causal, or coincidental? Too often the laws proposed don’t address the actual problem occurring, and many have been shown to not be relevant to the issue at hand. So both sides dig in their heels, and nothing changes.

Hopefully, now, there are at least some better ideas floating up with some decent consensus on both sides where meaningful change might occur. Allowing adults to carry if they choose to, and receive proper, advanced training seems a simple and great option. Forcing Federal Agencies to share data across a National Database, excellent idea. Perhaps a change to Medical Rights forcing patient data of Mental Health diagnoses being added during treatment (excluded from firearm ownership). These and are all reasonable changes every gun owner I have encountered supports, and the NRA too.

I really like the media blackout on these offenders too. Screw ‘me, don’t give them an iota of publicity. Call them by their name, “cowardly, deranged sacks of sh!t” and put 2 in their arse and let them bleed out.

What should outrage every American is that “most” every culprit in the past 10 years has been “known to” our Law Enforcement agencies and they did nothing preemptively. They’ve been on Watchlists, been visited, been reported, and still no action taken. What then will new laws accomplish? Hold these agencies criminally responsible where they have failed, and let’s see the change then. Further, gun crime violations (possessing illegally, filing applications when not eligible) are not prosecuted. They are fined, but not jailed. It’s not a sexy prosecution, but it should become another level of deterrent and remove these offenders from our streets.

Criminals in possession of firearms, should be prosecuted to the full extent of mandatory laws. Period. And crimes perpetrated with a firearm should carry much harsher, mandatory sentences if you want to see any drop in gun crime. And lastly, if you really want to see a major reduction in gun deaths in America, then clean up our drug gang violence and inner city gun problems. It is the source of too many innocents being caught in cross fires, and too many young men’s deaths due to the scourge of drugs and gangs being the carrot in their lives.

I yield the pulpit-  ;)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline jakec

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2018, 12:49:50 PM »
There was a very interesting interview released today by NY Times, they interview a psychologist who sort of debunks the idea that school shooters are all mentally ill. Not that is specifically what is being discussed here, but it's usually the primary argument used in defense of guns in these situations.

You can listen to it if you want :https://www.nytimes.com/podcasts/the-daily
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Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2018, 01:25:24 PM »
She makes valid points jake. Smart lady and her last words are kind of chilling.

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2018, 01:36:48 PM »
In the last days.. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...
 2 Timothy 3:2-4
Charlie
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2018, 01:43:20 PM »
In the last days.. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...
 2 Timothy 3:2-4
Charlie

Unfortunately that doesn't help much.

People need to just accept the fact that guns have nothing to do with this, and Americans are so exceptional that they are just going to have to live with the occasional, I mean frequent, massacre of children. I mean, it's not guns. It can't be, right? Everybody knows that as soon as you want to take away AR-15s the next logical step is mind control and taking away every other right anyone can think of. Plus, what about the other ways children die? And what about those inner city folks in Chicago? Let's just all slap each other on the back for the serious handwringing that gets done for a day or two after each episode. All that handwringing is enough to work up a sweat! Plus -- those kids were actors!

Offline calj737

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2018, 02:06:59 PM »
Unfortunately that doesn't help much.
You said it first.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2018, 02:13:39 PM »
Unfortunately that doesn't help much.

People need to just accept the fact that guns have nothing to do with this, and Americans are so exceptional that they are just going to have to live with the occasional, I mean frequent, massacre of children. I mean, it's not guns. It can't be, right? Everybody knows that as soon as you want to take away AR-15s the next logical step is mind control and taking away every other right anyone can think of. Plus, what about the other ways children die? And what about those inner city folks in Chicago? Let's just all slap each other on the back for the serious handwringing that gets done for a day or two after each episode. All that handwringing is enough to work up a sweat! Plus -- those kids were actors!



Yes, unfortunately That doesn't help much either...
Being smug and sarcastic helps nobody.
Charlie
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 02:15:37 PM by Yamahawk »
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?

Offline jakec

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2018, 02:18:57 PM »
When you have a problem with your bike, do you pray and consult scripture, or do you grab a wrench?

We're willing to do anything for these bikes but when it comes to violence the best we can do is shrug and say "it'll all be over soon, with any luck"
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Offline Gene

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2018, 02:23:28 PM »
Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie
Well "news" is too often skewed in both directions. Sadly, it is now too frequently not "news" but "biased opinions". Fortunately, its presence creates more free time in the garage that was otherwise spent becoming "informed" in years past. (Silver lining)  ;)

All news has always been skewed to fit the publishers/airers world view. This is not a new thing.
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