Topic: 77 CB550K Points Lubrication Areas?

[Maraakate]

I want to finish the tune-up on my CB550K.  All that is left is adjusting the points gap and timing.  The following post by deltarider seems to answer my question on how to actually do that part of it: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,156577.msg1794568.html#msg1794568.  However, I also want to lube/grease the areas that are part of this maintenance.  The points felt is obvious, but I am not sure where the other parts are and the SM does not indicate it.

Attached is a picture, can someone highlight the parts that get grease?

Also, if the plate needs to come off what size wrench do I need for the "special washer"?  I'm guessing somewhere around 22-24mm but I haven't taken the plate off to look yet.  Do i need to use a piston stop to get this off?

[Deltarider]

I want to finish the tune-up on my CB550K.  All that is left is adjusting the points gap and timing.  The following post by deltarider seems to answer my question on how to actually do that part of it: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,156577.msg1794568.html#msg1794568.  However, I also want to lube/grease the areas that are part of this maintenance.  The points felt is obvious, but I am not sure where the other parts are and the SM does not indicate it.

The cam that the fiber 'shoes' of the breakerpoints run on, needs a little bit of grease. Not much.

Also, if the plate needs to come off what size wrench do I need for the "special washer"?  I'm guessing somewhere around 22-24mm but I haven't taken the plate off to look yet.  Do i need to use a piston stop to get this off?

23mm. As long as advancer functions as it should, I wouldn't bother to remove it. If you have to go at the advancer and therefore have to remove the 'special washer', just undo its center bolt (10mm wrench) while you keep that 'special washer' stationary.

[Maraakate]

The fiber "shoes" you mean the "slippers"?  The somewhat spring-like thin plate that rides on that shaft?  There is grease on there, looks kind of dried up.  So I may have to remove this and clean it.  The points also need cleaned when I took a look.  On mopeds, I usually just take a very thin piece of paper like from an envelope or computer paper and carefully run it across the points when closed until it comes up clean.  I know you can sand the points very very lightly. I have never done that, but it appears that 150grit range is appropriate for this, yes?  I may need to very lightly file these points.  And of course, compressed air to make sure they are fully clean.

The book says to remove the blue wire running to the points to do the lightbulb test.  Is this absolutely necessary?  If yes, do I also have to remove the wire on the other set of points or just the blue on the left side?

Thanks for all your help!

[Deltarider]

The fiber "shoes" you mean the "slippers"?

I guess so, I mean the brown ... that follow the cam.

The points also need cleaned when I took a look.  On mopeds, I usually just take a very thin piece of paper like from an envelope or computer paper and carefully run it across the points when closed until it comes up clean.

I can not recommend that. The surface of the points become a bit pitted overtime. When you use paper, it might fill the little 'craters' which will reduce conductivity.

I know you can sand the points very very lightly. I have never done that, but it appears that 150grit range is appropriate for this, yes?

I cannot recommend it, grit may stay on the pitted surfaces reducing conductivity.

I may need to very lightly file these points.

There are special litttle contact files for that. One or two movements is enough.

The book says to remove the blue wire running to the points to do the lightbulb test.  Is this absolutely necessary?

No. Which book? You may consult p.11 of the Shop manual Honda CB500-550. file:///C:/Users/Delta/AppData/Local/Temp/Honda%20CB500%20CB550%20Four%20CB%20500%20550%20Workshop%20Service%20Repair%20Manual%20Part%2001.pdf

[Maraakate]

The book says to remove the blue wire running to the points to do the lightbulb test.  Is this absolutely necessary?

No. Which book? You may consult p.11 Of the Shop manual Honda CB500-550.

Page 11 of the shop manual says:

1. Disconnect the primary cord (blue cord) to the contact breaker at the connector and connect a 12V test lamp at this point.

Also, you are saying I need a special points file?

[Deltarider]

Page 11 of the shop manual says:
1. Disconnect the primary cord (blue cord) to the contact breaker at the connector and connect a 12V test lamp at this point.

Not necessary. Usually such a testlamp is a little screwdriver. Attach one wire of the test lamp with its alligator clamp to the little bolt on the back of the contactbreaker and the screwdriver side to ground (chassis). With IGN on and kill switch in RUN turn the crank clockwise. When the breakerpoints start opening, lamp will come on.

Also, you are saying I need a special points file?

No, you may find it on a nail clipper. I never file my points.

[Maraakate]

The book says to remove the blue wire running to the points to do the lightbulb test.  Is this absolutely necessary?

No. Which book? You may consult p.11 Of the Shop manual Honda CB500-550.

Page 11 of the shop manual says:

1. Disconnect the primary cord (blue cord) to the contact breaker at the connector and connect a 12V test lamp at this point.

Not necessary. Usually such a testlamp is a little screwdriver. Attach one wire of the test lamp with its alligator clamp to the little bolt on the back of the contactbreaker and the screwdriver side to ground (chassis). With IGN on and kill switch in RUN turn the crank clockwise. When the breakerpoints start opening, lamp will come on.

Also, you are saying I need a special points file?

No, you may find it on a nail clipper. I never file my points.

OK.  My plan was to bump the kickstarter (I'm wary of wrenching on the crank in case if I do it backwards!) slowly with ignition on and gas off and align to the F mark.

You never file your points?  How do you clean yours?  How often do they need replaced anyways?  The "service interval" in the owner's manually basically says to inspect them at the same time you do the oil change.

I plan to purchase a timing light as well.  Do I need to put white paint on the marks, or will the light be enough to make the marks look stationary?

The nail file is a good, cheap, emergency idea.  I will give that a try!

[Deltarider]

You never file your points?  How do you clean yours?  How often do they need replaced anyways?

 
I had and have the OEM TEC contactbreakers. Even with the conventional ignition set up, I did easily 40.000 kms with them. No maintenance needed. Just have a little bit of grease on the cam and a drip of oil on that little felt. That's it. For the last 60.000 kms I had my homebuilt transistor ignition module which makes point live for ever. I've rode my bike for 100.000kms and I cannot recall I replaced the breakerpoints more than once. 

I plan to purchase a timing light as well.  Do I need to put white paint on the marks...?

Not anymore. Nowadays strobes have xenon tubes, the oldfashioned ones were neon and needed some nail polish or whatever to be able to see the marks.

The nail file is a good, cheap, emergency idea.  I will give that a try!

Maybe your points need not to be filed at all. Usually not before there's a voltage drop of 0,2V over the points.

[Maraakate]

You never file your points?  How do you clean yours?  How often do they need replaced anyways?

 
I had and have the OEM TEC contactbreakers. Even with the conventional ignition set up, I did easily 40.000 kms with them. No maintenance needed. Just have a little bit of grease on the cam and a drip of oil on that little felt. That's it. For the last 60.000 kms I had my homebuilt transistor ignition module which makes point live for ever. I've rode my bike for 100.000kms and I cannot recall I replaced the breakerpoints more than once. 

I plan to purchase a timing light as well.  Do I need to put white paint on the marks...?

Not anymore. Nowadays strobes have xenon tubes, the oldfashioned ones were neon and needed some nail polish or whatever to be able to see the marks.

The nail file is a good, cheap, emergency idea.  I will give that a try!

Maybe your points need not to be filed at all. Usually not before there's a voltage drop of 0,2V over the points.

This bike has about 23,000 miles on it.  I am unsure if they are original, but it appears so.  The gap seems wider 0.4mm.  However, have not checked it yet; will do so probably today if it does not rain (I don't have a garage to work in unfortunately).

If the points last for a long time and you didn't have to readjust the gap then that is good.  I guess neglect and abuse is what makes them wear faster?  It looks like if I need new ones I can still get OEM Hitachi and TOYO ones from Honda for about $60/set.  I'll have to check the marks to see what brand I have.

Good deal on the modern timing lights.

Your bike has lasted to 100,000kms.  Are you still on the original cam chain, piston, and valves?  I would assume you maintain your bike properly so maybe it is possible to go this long.  Curious how long the cam chain can last if you adjust it every so often.  How often do you adjust yours?  I adjusted mine after the first oil change a month or so ago.  I didn't hear any noise or movement in there, so I guess it was pretty close to where it needed to be.  I've heard of stories of some people loosening the adjusters and it makes some scary pop sounds in there until it finds it's place.  My bike sounds like typical 70's Honda sewing machine; so I'm not too worried if I did that or the valves incorrectly.

[Maraakate]

I was able to finish the job today.  Went out and got a xenon timing light and check the points gap.  1.4 was already at ~0.35mm.  2.3 was actually around 0.20mm!  Fixed 2.3 and then went ahead and tried to do the static timing.  Setup the timing light, fired it up and only had to nudge the 2.3 very slightly to get it where it needed to be.  1.4 was already good to go.  I was able to verify that the advancer is working as it should so I will just leave it alone.

The semi-dried grease on the cam was easy to wipe off with my fingers then just used a very small amount on my fingers of red bearing grease.  I put a small drop or two of 3-in-1 oil (the SAE20 stuff, not the penetrating oil) on the felt.  Then put a small towel under it to squeeze out a little excess.  Put a very small dab of the read bearing grease on the felt as well.

Everything seems to be running as it should.  The bike does run better.  I was interested in doing this because I have noticed a slight performance decrease over the past month or so and I know it's been overdue for checking the timing.  Now the power is back to where it should be.

I saw from an older thread that Lubricam SL-2 is recommended for grease.  I ordered a bottle since I was unable to source it locally.  Next time I go to inspect the gap and grease it up I will start using this instead.

While I was in there I made a mental note that it is TEC brand components.  So when the day comes it's good to know I can still get OEM set from Honda.  I probably should order a spare set sometime soon in case it becomes NLA.

Thanks deltarider!

[PeWe]

If taking it apart, advancer out.
Check if the cam surface is free from scratches.  My advancers had scratches i fixed by grinding it with grit 400 paper wrapped around the cam and twisted it for even grinding.

Maybe I started with a used 240 first. Then 400 and finally 800. Looked much better and hopefully less wear on the points bakelite.

CB750 ignition same same as 5x0
Hondachopper site has really good tech guidelines about ignition and how to adjust points to work really fine.
No reason to give up installing electronic that will not cope with a huge gamma flash from outer space or an atomic bomb nearby. Points will!!

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/sohcign.html

More here that can be good to read for widening the technical awareness.
http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/garage.html

[Deltarider]

Your bike has lasted to 100,000kms.  Are you still on the original cam chain, piston, and valves?  I would assume you maintain your bike properly so maybe it is possible to go this long.  Curious how long the cam chain can last if you adjust it every so often.  How often do you adjust yours?  I adjusted mine after the first oil change a month or so ago.  I didn't hear any noise or movement in there, so I guess it was pretty close to where it needed to be.  I've heard of stories of some people loosening the adjusters and it makes some scary pop sounds in there until it finds it's place.  My bike sounds like typical 70's Honda sewing machine; so I'm not too worried if I did that or the valves incorrectly.

Mine has 136.000kms on the odometer (103.000 were by me). Actually the camchain tensioner is the part I dislike most. I don't know about the chain, but the tensioner has been replaced at odo 45.000 and at odo 80.000. My bike has had regular maintenance. Usually I do longer with oil than prescribed. There's no harm in this: I avoid short rides. The OEM airfilter elements practically live forever, as they are not plagued by moisture from a blow-by gassystem like the CB550 models had. Actually I've just replaced the old element, that has been in there for over a decade by a new one achieved from DS for a very reasonable price. I was not surprised I didn't notice any difference between the old and the new one. A lot of nonsense has been posted about paper filter elements. Few people know that paper airfilter elements filter better over time as the trapped particles actually increase the filtering surface and so increase its capacity. I've learned this from a man who's company sells airfilters! The time it took me to replace the element was less than 15 seconds! Your model has that blowby-gassystem, so routinely inspect your airfilter element for soft wet spots, sometimes they're a bit brown. It would indicate wet crankcase fumes were at it. It goes without saying that even partly wet airfilter elements have less filtering capacity.
In my archives I have an article about a CB500 owner that at that time had already done 225.000km with his.
I don't remember about my pistons - they may well be the original - rings were replaced though. Primary drive chain is still the original. Although I myself took the engine apart, I let a pro do the rebuild as I do not have the tools, let alone the experience to see what is worn and what not. This was decades ago. A few tips. Do the tensioner adjustment by the book (but not by the Owner's Manual!!!) or Bryanj's method. The latter method was practicised by many dealers, but you may need a helper.
As far as the ignition, when you have the original breakerpoints, you can keep them. You could consider a transistor ignition like the one I built myself (a copycat) or have Hondaman's. As far as spark performance, you won't need more anywhere in the rpm band. If the breakerpoints are aftermarket however, costwise, you may as well opt for a simple EI like Tytronic. As far as your carbs, ride your bike regularly to avoid slow jets becoming partially blocked. You may want to add just a little bit of an additive. Oh... when you make adjustments @ idle, make sure you have a true 1100 rpm. I once serviced a K3 that showed 1400 on its tacho where my known good digital meter read 1000 rpm. Imagine if I had not noticed this and had tried to find a nice idle at '1000' on the ND tacho. Actually I did try this and got frustrated. Then I connected my digital meter and the mystery was solved quickly.

[Maraakate]

Interesting.  How did you know the tensioner needed replaced?  I also did notice the service manual tells you to adjust the chain at 15 BTDC (iirc) but the book just says to line it up with the T mark and be on your merry way.  Why is this, what's the difference?

[Deltarider]

Don't know. I have wondered myself. I'd stick to the 15^o or Bryanj's method. Don't expect to see anything moving (it moves a fraction if at all) and do not expect too much of it: some bikes will always have a somewhat noisy camchain. If yours is a sewing machine now, congrats and don't mess with it.

[Maraakate]

It's sewing machine.  I know what a loose chain sounds like because the CM400 I have you do the adjustment while the bike is idling and you get to hear how loud it is when loose for a brief moment.

Yeah, when I did it (unfortunately I did it the way the owner's manual stated, but I can redo it to be 15deg some time this week not that hard to do...) I didn't even notice it move or hear a noise or even a performance difference so it was probably about where it needed to be anyways.

How often do you set the cam chain tension on yours?  I usually would do it on the CM400 at the beginning and at the end of the riding season, same time I would do the valves when the engine has been dead cold for 24 hours.  If I did oil changes during the season I would also do the cam chain tension then.

[Erny]

Don't know. I have wondered myself. I'd stick to the 15^o or Bryanj's method. Don't expect to see anything moving (it moves a fraction if at all) and do not expect too much of it: some bikes will always have a somewhat noisy camchain. If yours is a sewing machine now, congrats and don't mess with it.

Delta, can you navigate me to find Bryanj's method?

[Deltarider]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,11818.msg112760.html#msg112760
Bryanj's method I learned from my Honda dealer who in his turn had been instructed by Honda The Netherlands. It's simple, but a helper makes it easier.

[Erny]

Thanks!
I'll try it next time I do maintenance

[Maraakate]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,11818.msg112760.html#msg112760
Bryanj's method I learned from my Honda dealer who in his turn had been instructed by Honda The Netherlands. It's simple, but a helper makes it easier.

Interesting, but it would take me a few tries until I got comfortable with doing that.  I assume you need to get a good feel for that.

Also, just so we're clear, from what I understand for the CB550, you are just loosening the locknut and NOT touching the flat-head bolt on the tensioner.  If yes, then that is what I've been doing.  Seems to be right.

[Maraakate]

Your bike has lasted to 100,000kms.  Are you still on the original cam chain, piston, and valves?  I would assume you maintain your bike properly so maybe it is possible to go this long.  Curious how long the cam chain can last if you adjust it every so often.  How often do you adjust yours?  I adjusted mine after the first oil change a month or so ago.  I didn't hear any noise or movement in there, so I guess it was pretty close to where it needed to be.  I've heard of stories of some people loosening the adjusters and it makes some scary pop sounds in there until it finds it's place.  My bike sounds like typical 70's Honda sewing machine; so I'm not too worried if I did that or the valves incorrectly.

Mine has 136.000kms on the odometer (103.000 were by me). Actually the camchain tensioner is the part I dislike most. I don't know about the chain, but the tensioner has been replaced at odo 45.000 and at odo 80.000. My bike has had regular maintenance. Usually I do longer with oil than prescribed. There's no harm in this: I avoid short rides. The OEM airfilter elements practically live forever, as they are not plagued by moisture from a blow-by gassystem like the CB550 models had. Actually I've just replaced the old element, that has been in there for over a decade by a new one achieved from DS for a very reasonable price. I was not surprised I didn't notice any difference between the old and the new one. A lot of nonsense has been posted about paper filter elements. Few people know that paper airfilter elements filter better over time as the trapped particles actually increase the filtering surface and so increase its capacity. I've learned this from a man who's company sells airfilters! The time it took me to replace the element was less than 15 seconds! Your model has that blowby-gassystem, so routinely inspect your airfilter element for soft wet spots, sometimes they're a bit brown. It would indicate wet crankcase fumes were at it. It goes without saying that even partly wet airfilter elements have less filtering capacity.
In my archives I have an article about a CB500 owner that at that time had already done 225.000km with his.
I don't remember about my pistons - they may well be the original - rings were replaced though. Primary drive chain is still the original. Although I myself took the engine apart, I let a pro do the rebuild as I do not have the tools, let alone the experience to see what is worn and what not. This was decades ago. A few tips. Do the tensioner adjustment by the book (but not by the Owner's Manual!!!) or Bryanj's method. The latter method was practicised by many dealers, but you may need a helper.
As far as the ignition, when you have the original breakerpoints, you can keep them. You could consider a transistor ignition like the one I built myself (a copycat) or have Hondaman's. As far as spark performance, you won't need more anywhere in the rpm band. If the breakerpoints are aftermarket however, costwise, you may as well opt for a simple EI like Tytronic. As far as your carbs, ride your bike regularly to avoid slow jets becoming partially blocked. You may want to add just a little bit of an additive. Oh... when you make adjustments @ idle, make sure you have a true 1100 rpm. I once serviced a K3 that showed 1400 on its tacho where my known good digital meter read 1000 rpm. Imagine if I had not noticed this and had tried to find a nice idle at '1000' on the ND tacho. Actually I did try this and got frustrated. Then I connected my digital meter and the mystery was solved quickly.

In response to other things you mentioned:

* Points are original, and I see that you can still get TEC ones direct from Honda.
* I am interested in the transistor ignition.  I can build things from schematics quite easily, is there a forum post somewhere with the actual schematics?  Looks like something that can be fabbed up fairly easily in a metal project box for the heatsink.
* I know what you mean on the idle being near 1100rpm.  I noticed on my CB550K it has to be close to this otherwise it does not idle as well it should.  But yes, I have some proper calibrated RPM/Dwell meters and was able to dial it in.  Bike idles great now.  The tach on mine seems to be off about ~800rpm (it reads about 800rpm too high).  Something I can live with.  I already took the tach apart once to clean the hardened grease in there as the tach wasn't responding very well when I first got it running.  There is a place locally that specializes in repairing speedometers and tachs and can probably calibrate it to be a little tighter.  Not sure how expensive this is, but something I may look into in the future.  My speedometer is off by about 5MPH (it reads 5MPH too high).

Curious how you knew the cam chain tensioner needed replaced.  This is something I want to be able to look out for.  How did you know it was time for new rings?

It sounds like if you are serious about keeping up with the maintenance and do regular oil changes then things tend to last for a very long time on these bikes.

[PeWe]

If you have own an old Honda CB for decades, its a family member that need care time to time.  I have restored mine many times since 1979. Like a wife but precious 1, wife came later into my life

I passed 5000km for this season today so an oil change is near.

[Erny]

5000km this season in Sweden? Wau.. Congrats!

[PeWe]

5000km this season in Sweden? Wau.. Congrats!

I was convinced to sort out the carbs. It's easier when remember how it acted last time and if last change helped.

Longer tours needed to get the feeling for it. I started to like the low speed trips too.

Best season of the year is now when all growing stuff has just became green, flowers and crazy singing birds....

[Deltarider]

* Points are original, and I see that you can still get TEC ones direct from Honda.
* I am interested in the transistor ignition.  I can build things from schematics quite easily, is there a forum post somewhere with the actual schematics?  Looks like something that can be fabbed up fairly easily in a metal project box for the heatsink.

I've copied the Velleman K2543 kit that is very popular among owners of vintage bikes and cars. You need two ofcourse for our type of distributorless ignitions. If you do an advanced search here with 'Velleman K2543' and 'Deltarider', I'm sure you'll find all you need. There were/are only a few of those power transistors around, the heart of the system. IIRC Texas Instruments was the first to develop this type of transistor especially for the auto industry, the TIP162. The other type I know is the BU931P. Both were specifically designed for first generation automotive electronic ignitions. Don't worry about that silly heat sink. The diecast box and lid can serve as heat sink. Mine has proved very reliable indeed. After some 10-15 years some wires outside the unit had hardened and I had to replace them by new supple wire. 

Curious how you knew the cam chain tensioner needed replaced.  This is something I want to be able to look out for.  How did you know it was time for new rings?

Well, I didn't. The mec thought that now the engine was 'open', it was a common thing to do. I didn't know much at the time.

[PeWe]

Your ignition free from Made in China components that might be out of spec or reused scrapped batch.

[Maraakate]

* Points are original, and I see that you can still get TEC ones direct from Honda.
* I am interested in the transistor ignition.  I can build things from schematics quite easily, is there a forum post somewhere with the actual schematics?  Looks like something that can be fabbed up fairly easily in a metal project box for the heatsink.

I've copied the Velleman K2543 kit that is very popular among owners of vintage bikes and cars. You need two ofcourse for our type of distributorless ignitions. If you do an advanced search here with 'Velleman K2543' and 'Deltarider', I'm sure you'll find all you need. There were/are only a few of those power transistors around, the heart of the system. IIRC Texas Instruments was the first to develop this type of transistor especially for the auto industry, the TIP162. The other type I know is the BU931P. Both were specifically designed for first generation automotive electronic ignitions. Don't worry about that silly heat sink. The diecast box and lid can serve as heat sink. Mine has proved very reliable indeed. After some 10-15 years some wires outside the unit had hardened and I had to replace them by new supple wire. 

Curious how you knew the cam chain tensioner needed replaced.  This is something I want to be able to look out for.  How did you know it was time for new rings?

Well, I didn't. The mec thought that now the engine was 'open', it was a common thing to do. I didn't know much at the time.

Thanks for the tips.  I will do some searching on the forums for the kit and schematics.

[bryanj]

OK, having read all this i will chime in.
Camchain tensioner mechanisms last forever UNLESS the small bolt is forced, tensioner blades i would change when cam chain is changed, usually on a full strip for some other reason. Primary chain on 500 needs changing when it has worn into crank case oilway, 550 is cast slightly different so chain only touches if very worn, change dampers in primary at same time.
If it says anything i am fitting one of Marks(hondamans) sets to my rebuild and i used to do a lot of Vellman kits for my old cars.
I have never seen a 500 or 550 bore worn enough to need rebore but a lot of rebores due to owner abuse and siezing, likewise cranks, i have only ever seen one worn and that again was owner abuse, lack of oil and changes..

Hope that essay helps

[Deltarider]

Thanks Bryanj for regularly informing us from practice. As an amateur I can only pass on what collegues of you has learned me back then. When I had opened my CB500 at 80.000 km (I foolishly thought it was necessary) and brought it to a pro for inspection and measuring, the first thing the mec said, was: why did you take it apart? From what I later have learned from others: the bottom end is practically indestructible. Camchain tensioner in itself is maybe not a bad design. It's a bit flimsy IMO and insensitive to work. An amateur does not feel whether he has done it right or not. There's no feedback so to say and that's why many cannot resist to go at the tensioner bolt, the more when such is described in the Clymer manual. There are more errors in that manual. Having said that, I wonder if there's anything against the method described on p 3-7 of a CB650 maintenance manual. To me it looks the tensioner system is identical. Have a look below if you like. Haven't tried this yet myself, but if there's nothing against it, it could well be the optimal method.
Anyway, what ever you do, do not follow what is described in the CB500K3/550K3 Owner's Manual and do it with an idling engine. You will never get it right! Maybe it was a copy and paste by mistake from some manual that covers another bike.

[bryanj]

650 method is basically same as mine, i just dont bother to have the crank rotating. If you actually rotate it is is possible to lock up the tensioner on a part of revolution where the cam has "sprung" over a lobe and the front run has slack, which is not what you want.
The only problems with 500 bottom ends is primary chain wearing oil gallery and centre gear selector. I dont count loose chain breaking pushrod as that doesnt need cases split

[Deltarider]

650 method is basically same as mine, i just dont bother to have the crank rotating. If you actually rotate it is is possible to lock up the tensioner on a part of revolution where the cam has "sprung" over a lobe and the front run has slack, which is not what you want.

I also did notice the service manual tells you to adjust the chain at 15 BTDC (iirc) but the book just says to line it up with the T mark and be on your merry way.  Why is this, what's the difference?

The second quote is a question by Maraakate. BTW, where he says 15 BTDC, I assume he means 15^o ATDC. Also I have wondered why there is this fifteen degrees difference between the Owner's Manual CB500K1 (p.48)* and the Shop Manual CB500-550 (p.13).
Doing your method (also practised by Honda mecs I knew), it may be difficult for an amateur to determine whether he exercises enough force or not. So, after reading  the CB650 manual, I got the idea of combining the three methods.
1. Set the crankshaft to T.D.C of the compression stroke with the kick pedal according to p.48 in the Owner's Manual CB500K1*
2. Loosen he lock nut and apply some force on the crank clockwise (your method) allowing it very, very slowly to move (method CB650) but not further than 15 ATDC (method Shop Manual CB500-550).
3. In this traject from T.D.C to 15 ATDC tighten the lock nut.

The only problems with 500 bottom ends is primary chain wearing oil gallery...

As you know I have volunteered to see how far it will go. My primary drive chain has done 136.000kms (85.000 miles) and I have no illusions that the chain will have chafed a bit of the crankcase. Am I worried? Mwah... wouldn't disaster have struck long time ago already? We'll see.
Now the chain that I am worried about is the @%$&!! camchain. The actual one has done 56.000kms (35.000 miles) and because it was already the 3rd it has always received the prescribed care. But... if I'm not mistaken, it has reached the end of its lifetime. Again! That's why I hate that chain and its tensioner. I wonder what experience others have. What is a realistic lifespan for such a camchain?
*http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_k1/CB500_K1_3.pdf

[grcamna2]

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[Maraakate]

Yes, I meant to say 15deg ATDC.  Didn't have the manual in front of me.

I found an older post where you posted the schematic to the Velleman K2543 box.  I've attached it in case the link disappears some day.  The only thing I do not know is where the "1, 2, 3, 4" points go to in regards to the schematic.  Otherwise, looks very easy to build.

[jlh3rd]

I've read all four methods, manual, clymer, bryanj, delta. I don't see where any of them are wrong. Clymer is the more complicated but accomplishes the same thing.
     In a nutshell, tension is needed on the front side of the cam chain between the cam and crankshaft, right? This leaves slack at the back side of the cam chain. Now loosen the locknut, the slotted screw moves clockwise ( tightens) on its own.....in a perfect world......if the screw is not frozen. Clymer says to back the screw out (counterclockwise) if it is frozen, and then let it self adjust inwards.
     Where people screw up is turning the slotted screw inwards(clockwise) manually. But that locknut needs to move freely on its own threads or it will turn that screw........so...
      What would be wrong with loosening that locknut and making sure it turns freely on the screw threads. Then backing the screw adjuster out ( counterclockwise) only to make sure it moves freely. Then clockwise pressure on the crankshaft with your right hand and a socket on the points crank nut, let the adjuster do its thing, and snug the locknut with your left hand.....Do you even need to be at TDC or 15 degrees ATDC?.......plugs out might make it easier.....
     Just throwing it out there.....because I want to know....

[Maraakate]

I've read all four methods, manual, clymer, bryanj, delta. I don't see where any of them are wrong. Clymer is the more complicated but accomplishes the same thing.
     In a nutshell, tension is needed on the front side of the cam chain between the cam and crankshaft, right? This leaves slack at the back side of the cam chain. Now loosen the locknut, the slotted screw moves clockwise ( tightens) on its own.....in a perfect world......if the screw is not frozen. Clymer says to back the screw out (counterclockwise) if it is frozen, and then let it self adjust inwards.
     Where people screw up is turning the slotted screw inwards(clockwise) manually. But that locknut needs to move freely on its own threads or it will turn that screw........so...
      What would be wrong with loosening that locknut and making sure it turns freely on the screw threads. Then backing the screw adjuster out ( counterclockwise) only to make sure it moves freely. Then clockwise pressure on the crankshaft with your right hand and a socket on the points crank nut, let the adjuster do its thing, and snug the locknut with your left hand.....Do you even need to be at TDC or 15 degrees ATDC?.......plugs out might make it easier.....
     Just throwing it out there.....because I want to know....

Not sure why everyone says to take the plugs out.  It's really not that hard to bump the kickstarter lever or am I missing something on the 750s compared to the 550s?

[jlh3rd]

i'm guessing that unless someone understands engines and what we're trying to do here, plugs out enables the newbie to " feel" when the cam chain tightens as opposed to confusing that with a piston in the act of compressing. And makes it easier to get to TDC or the 15 degrees ATDC........( is that even needed?)
   

[Maraakate]

Not sure why this is so hard.  I just did the cam chain adjustment when I did the valves.  From what I understand you just loosen the nut when the marks align in regards to Cylinder 1 and then retighten.  Don't touch the flathead screwdriver bolt.  You reach the T mark by bumping the kickstarter.  You get a feel for it once you've done the valves.  Leave the valve inspection covers off and when you reach the T mark where the valves for Cylinder 1 are adjustable then loosen the adjuster.  However, if you want to do the 15deg ATDC then once you reach that point where Cylinder 1 is adjustable at TDC just bump the kick starter very slowly until you reach the 15deg ATDC.  You should be able to do this without any special tools or having to remove spark plugs.

[Maraakate]

Also, there was a post in here about some other ways to adjust that cam chain; and you can do them and they probably work fine.  But for me personally, just doing the way the book says in regards with my instructions I just posted is probably enough for most people.  But the flat rate shop way of doing it is interesting and probably worth knowing if you have to do a lot of bikes.

[Deltarider]

Let me confess that I am still in the process of trying to understand why Honda confused us with several methods for adjustment, but never sought to modify the tensioner.
Let's start with the Owner's Manuals. At the time when you bought a new CB500 or CB550, there was such a manual under the seat. It had a maintenance scheme and also explained what you could do yourself.
In the first Owner's Manual that I had (p.48), the procedure was:
   a. Set the crankshaft to T.D.C of the compression stroke with the kick pedal
   b. Adjustment is made by loosening the tensioner lock nut. This will automatically release the tensioner bolt, applying the proper tension to         the cam chain.
   c. After completing the adjustment, tighten the lock nut.
      Source: http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_k1/CB500_K1_3.pdf
Simple? Well, no... a. it doesn't specify what T.D.C is ment and c. leaves us wondering what there is to 'complete', if the process is supposed to be 'automatical'. Furthermore the method is not consistent with the procedure in the Shop Manual CB500-550 (p.13) where the crankshaft is in the position 15^o ATDC.
In the next Owner's Manual in time, that happens to cover my model, the CB500K2-ED (marketed in 1976), there's NO information on adjusting the camchain. Why is that? All the other maintenance info like ignition timing and adjusting the valve tappet clearance is still present. Strange.
Source: http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_75/libretto500_1.pdf
Finally the Owner's Manual that deals with the K3, both the CB500 as well as the 550.
On p.68 we read:
   1. Start the engine and maintain it at idle speed (1,050 rpm).
   2. Loosen the tensioner lock nut and tensioner bolt. When they are loosened, the cam chain tensioner will automatically position itself to             provide the correct cam chain tension.
   3. Retighten the tensioner bolt and lock nut.
      Source: http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_libretti/500/CB500_550/CB500_550_06.pdf
Confusion again. Under 2. one could conclude that the bolt also needs loosening, the more when we read under 3. Retighten the tensioner bolt and lock nut. We know this is not right. We are not supposed to touch that bolt. Why did Honda decide to go dynamically, remains a mystery.
So, overseeing the differences on the matter in three consecutive owner manuals, we wonder:
What made Honda decide to omit the instructions in manual #2?
Why did Honda inform us owners again and advised to do it with a running engine in manual #3?
This against the background that Honda mechanics in The Netherlands and the UK had learned a different approach that we here now know as 'Bryanj's method'.
Please realise that the camchain and its tensioner system is a hundred % identical for all CB500/550 models: from the very first CB500 up to the last model CB550K4. I realise that this post has not much to do with the original subject anymore, so I've decided to copy this post to a new thread: Confusion about the CB500/550 camchain tensioning.

 

[Maraakate]

OK, please link to the new thread as I do not see it.