Topic: STARTER CLUTCH SLIPPAGE

[mark ward]

Now with 550 miles on my 836 rebuild, I installed a CYCLE X Rapid Fire exhaust, and a remote oil filter kit. During which, I then did my 3rd oil + filter change, by using AMSOIL Dominator 15-50 oil.  Not sure if it's that oil; but the intermittent starter clutch slippage has now become almost continuous.
     Perhaps one of 10 attempts to electric-start will successfully engage, and start motor.
While I was installing my CYCLE X crankshaft during rebuild; I did not notice any obvious wear indicators; but probably should have installed new starter-clutch springs etc.
    Does anyone have a fix for this; since the large gear is no longer produced?

[bryanj]

I have a nos gear, clutch housing, 3 rollers and 3 spring caps sorry lost the springs.
I am in UK if you want to discuss price please pm me

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Hey Mark, get in touch with Scottly. He has turned down the "mating" surface on the big gear. You didn't mention yours but I found considerable uneven wear on the surface. MIGHT be a contributing factor for you.

[scottly]

Hey Jerry, I sent the gear I machined to CBJoe, and he reported it started slipping, so he replaced it with a good gear from Bill, and it started slipping, too. He is also running synthetic oil, and someone else also reported starter clutch problems with synthetic. Maybe it's too slippery?  Mark, you might want to switch to conventional oil?

[mark ward]

Thanks Jerry + Scottly.      Bryanj is shipping me a NOS gear, and clutch parts, minus the springs. Man, you guys respond quickly!
    Scottly, in the end, you may be correct. I'll need to switch from the synthetics; if the new gear slips.
 It's too bad that our old-engineered motors, cannot benefit from the modern lubricants; which can do so much for longevity; as well as offer better protection for those of us running hi- performance parts.

[bryanj]

They dont do well as gearbox oil though

[DaveBarbier]

There are quite a few members that run synthetic and I haven’t heard anyone warning against it. Not saying it’s not the problem but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions saying you can’t run synthetic in these bikes.

[PeWe]

New rebuild as new bores and pistons need an oil change rather soon anyway.
Try Spectro HD  20W-50 mineral oil.
There is a semi version of it too.

New rings often recommended to run mineral as break- in. Heavy decelerations the first 100 miles  on warm engine very important to seal the rings.

[bryanj]

Sorry just dont see the point its not worth the extra cost when it still needs changing due to being gearbox oil as well

[mark ward]

Good info. I have seen other guys using SPECTRO. That may be the way to go.....   The 1st 67 miles I ran Amsoil 30w break-in oil. I then used 10-40 Amsoil. The slippage began at third oil change, at approximately 500 miles, using Amsoil Dominator 15-50.

[scottly]

This is what the one guy said:
"I have run Amsoil in my 750 but it makes my starter clutch slip.  Switch back to mineral based and the clutch works normal.  But I run amsoil in everything else and I love it."

[PeWe]

Is that Amsoil really a motorcycle oil?
Car oils have antifriction stuff.

[dusterdude]

Amsoil does make motorcycle specific oil

Sent from my LM-X420 using Tapatalk

[PeWe]

As I thought, not synth related, probably friction modifiers....

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3039662

Amsoil:
Dominator Racing Oil is the ideal recommendation for street rods, muscle cars and other high-performance vehicles driven on the street.


I'm sure Amsoil make superior oils. Why not use a motorcycle oil in a motorcycle?
I should buy it if available close to me for OK price

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/2-and-4-stroke-oils/articles/protection-and-performance-for-equipment/

https://www.thebestoil.com/applications/amsoil-synthetic-oils-and-filters-for-motorcycles/

Edit:
I'm sure clutch will slip at WOT  when gearing to 5th at full speed on 4th. Around 180-190 kmh.
Probably lower speed today when I'm much bigger, +40%

My 836 did, I reduced throttle a little so clutch gripped then twist again. It sounded as finding the 6:th gear.
I also used a really good oil back then, Mobile 1, NOT for motorcycles and wet clutch.

[mark ward]

I'm convinced you guys are correct. ........Especially now, with new 836 rebuild, since I replaced my old Barnett discs + springs with OEM; I'm better off with the mineral oil.

[PeWe]

Regardless of oil, Motorcycle oil for wet clutch 20W-50.

Then you'll know when used it for a while if that is enough. Hopefully it is.

[mark ward]

Well, I am also thankful for Bryanj for sending out that nos starter-clutch gear. ......I hate too rip open my recently sealed-up engine case covers; especially since there are no gasket leaks; but all the other gears and shafts have been replaced; so I'll add one more to the 50 year old motor.

[Bodi]

I've used full synthetic oil for years with no issues, but always use motorcycle specific oil. AMSOIL bike oil is great in my opinion. And it's not crazy expensive like some imported brands from motorcycle shops...
Using modern car oils with their "friction modifiers" and such crap is not a good idea with a wet clutch.
And you want enough ZDDP for the rocker cam, use an additive if your oil is deficient. You should be able to find the amount in an oil by searching for the info. ZDDP is often called "zinc" although there's more to it than just zinc. Generally diesel motor oil has enough ZDDP and many of use use it in our bikes. I run Shell Rotella T5 or T6.

[mark ward]

Good info Bodi. I have used AMSOIL 'Metric' oil, which would likely be a safe consideration; but was talked into the AMSOIL 'Dominator', by a friend who claims his 2300cc Triumph Rocket, with high perfomance mods, like 13:1 compression, had an engine inspection after 40,000 miles, and found '0' wear on internal components.
      But that bike is not constructed like our old dinosaurs.
 I do see quite a few guys using Rotella.

[PeWe]

Carefully read ZZDP additive on the label.
I mixed it in oil before reading the label.
 It had anti friction stuff in it. So I drained oil direct, replaced oil again after a very short ride.

It was most likely really good for old US V8, not for a CB.

[Trevor from Warragul]

I recently used Penrite fully synthetic motorcycle oil (no friction modifiers & full zinc) in my CBX 1000.  The starter clutch started slipping in cold weather on first start up.  It's a known issue with some high mileage CBX motors.  Refilled it with Penrite mineral motorcycle oil (no friction modifiers & full zinc).  The slippage on first start up has reduced considerably.

[PeWe]

My K6 had some slippage too.
Probably after more use of Red Line 20W-60 ester synth, hot weather.
Now no slippage at all, semi synth. Mixed my oils I have.

Stronger starter motor might help the slipping too

[mark ward]

Just more confirmation to be more alert to what I use.

[scottly]

Good info. I have seen other guys using SPECTRO. That may be the way to go.

Yes. There is a member with over 160,000 miles on a 750 without any major engine work, running the Spectro HD.

[PeWe]

This reminds us about not only clutch that can slip,  starter can too.
I did not have any clutch slip during the period of starter gear slip despite plenty of torque 1000cc provides.

Spectro has also a semi loaded with zinc as their mineral.

My K2 got a dragging clutch with Spectro HD mineral. Fibers stucked together. Did not help much to rock them free. Bike rolled forward despite using  clutch until engine was really warm.
I drained a liter and filled with a lower priced  motorcycle synth oil, Q8 SBK racing 10W-50. This fixed it.

Gearbox feels fantastic with Spectro, really smooth when shifting.