Topic: Slowly modifying my '82 CB650Z

[Jimcg]

Hi Jim,I am enjoying the work you have accomplished this far along the journey of your custom changes made to your CB650:I like your design of the seat and taillight,and I also like that you could choose to turn the progress back to stock if you change your mind at a later date.This is a 1982' CB650Z ? I like this model.Can you tell me how many years they made this model Honda and what changes they made to it from when it first started production until the last model was produced ? thank you,Bill

Thanks, Bill!

I knew from the beginning that I wanted to make everything reversible. I have no plans of selling it but who knows - I might change my mind in the future. 

I don't have much knowledge about these bikes, but this is referred to as the Standard CB650 (or Z), where as I Believe in the US the Custom version was more common. As far as I know it was made 1979-1982. On the main page for this forum there is more information: http://www.sohc4.com/cb550/cb650/

I sat with my computer last night to try and visualize what my plans would look like, paint wise (unless I change my mind and leave it stock red). I didn't put much time in it so the quality of the pictures isn't very good but just to get a feeling if it would work at all or not. The color is much more bright yellow than I plan to go for - I want a mix of yellow and light brown, as were common on european cars in late 70's and early 80's. The lower forks would be black and as for the wheels my intention was to paint them black but leave the rim egde unpainted. But last night I also saved one version with the entire wheels unpainted and I'm not sure (surprise) which one I like the most. The only thing I'm sure of is that I won't start painting anything before I think it over for a while.







New tires are waiting to be mounted - went for Avon Roadriders (3,25x19 and 4,00x18) after reading and changing my mind until my eyes were bleeding and brain felt boiled. I had planned for Dunlop K81 or other tires with a little more agressive pattern style but without knowing much about tires myself and after reading a lot here I felt I should let safety come first. The dual sport tires from Shinko och Kenda are almost impossible to find in Sweden in the right dimensons. Feel a little sorry about that, since it has such big impact on the look of the bike.

/Jim

[grcamna2]

I like the lower view with the silver wheels.

[Jimcg]

I removed the wheels today. My current plan is to paint the rims all black and put the new tires on after paint has settled after a few weeks or so. Lower fork legs will be painted black as well. I made new aluminium side covers that can be seen if you look closely. 






The lower forks came apart very easily and for a moment I was very happy, thinking the fork seal replacement could be done without even removing the uppper legs. But the happiness flew away almost right away - I hadn't enjoyed it for more than a few minutes when I happened to turn the handlebars from side to side and noticed a quite remarkable bind at the center and I assume that can only mean I have to replace the bearings as well (wires and the temprarily hung brake calipers could make some sort of resistance but I can't see any of them binding in a way that it matches the feeling of sharp resistance in the straight ahead position... I am a bit (VERY!!!) disappointed, bike has only been run 22.000 km or 13.600 miles and I really didn't think this should be needed now. But it has been standing unused for many years, can that cause those bearings to give up?

So now I guess I will have to start searching for a kit with everything I need for that too. I any of you guys already know what I need, please give me a hint! I don't want cheapest possible, because I don't want to have to do to again in years. I remember having read about tapered roller bearings being better. Is that so and are there such kits with everything included for a '82 CB650Z (RC03)? And also, are there many special tools needed for such a job? I feel a bit scared about doing this after seeing others having diffculties with bearing races and gaps and such...

/Jim

[Jimcg]

Okay, I think I've felt sorry for myself enough now. Went out and looked at the bike again and started planning how I should continue. I have also read some and watched a few very useful youtube clips.

One thing that bothers me is that it seems difficult making sure that the bearing kit will fit with the right washer thickness and that it includes necessary seals. All bearing kits don't seem to include seals.

Edit: I found an All balls kit with seals and washers included in UK and ordered them.
 
/Jim

[Jimcg]

I removed upper forks and took the those apart today. Everything looks okay as far as I can see but the old oil sure smelled really bad! All the parts will be cleaned and prepared for reassembly once new seals and dust covers arrive.




Continued to take things apart and prepare for replacing steering bearings once they arrive. Handlebars has also been removed and my home made work out "security cage" (or power rack) sure was useful for this task. Everything is still attached cable wise, just hanging by straps and rubber bands but somewhat in place. But when I finished today I realized I had forgotten to write in what order I loosened and removed everything and also forgot to take pictures. It sure would have been helpful to know where wires, brake hoses and cables are routed through all the small spaces and openings.






/Jim

[Kelly E]

There is a cable routing section in the factory repair manual.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

40 year old fork oil has a special smell.

[Jimcg]

There is a cable routing section in the factory repair manual.

Thanks, I'll look into that!

40 year old fork oil has a special smell.

Yes, I've never experienced that before.😁

/Jim

[rb550four]

  I've run into crusty grease and a sticking spot in bearings before, a good cleaning and fresh grease usually solves the issue unless your bearings are damaged. I'm not familiar with your European model 650z but doesn't it come stock with roller bearings  instead of ball bearings? Seems new enough.
   There are ball bearing listed in DSS UK  for $72.60 US
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB650Z/part_6432/
  or tapered bearings
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB650Z/part_29130/

[Jimcg]

  I've run into crusty grease and a sticking spot in bearings before, a good cleaning and fresh grease usually solves the issue unless your bearings are damaged. I'm not familiar with your European model 650z but doesn't it come stock with roller bearings  instead of ball bearings? Seems new enough.
   There are ball bearing listed in DSS UK  for $72.60 US
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB650Z/part_6432/
  or tapered bearings
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB650Z/part_29130/

Thanks for your input and links! The cost for new bearings seemed so reasonable so I wanted to replace them now when things are apart anyway.

I ordered an All Balls kit a few days ago with seals and a couple of washers of different thickness. I've got the impression that it's a good/acceptable brand being mentioned quite often on this forum. I saw the roller bearing kit from DSS before I made up my mind but didn't feel sure about everything being included there.

The seller I bought from is also located in UK wich means no custom fees for us in Sweden.

/Jim

[Jimcg]

Here's a picture from this mornings painting session. Drove early to work to spend a couple of hours in the basement before work started. It turned out okay, not entirely pleased with the side covers but those are easily redone, since they are just a flat pice of aluminium and can be removed from the bike at anytime.




Lower fork legs turned out really nice, in relation to my expectations.
 



I'll wait and do the comstars in a few days, when I know I have enough time. Not looking forward to painting them, although the etch primer I was worried about seemed rather okay when I looked at them today with Terrys words and encouraging comments in my head.

My aluminium rear cowl or taillight cover (don't know what to call it) got etched last paint session but final paint on that one comes when I paint the tank as they will have matching colors (it won't be yellow as I planned earlier).

Since last post I have also replaced the steering bearings. Had some difficulties with them and got very confused reading through the massive tapered bearings thread here. Where to put the lower washer/spacer was my concern: 1) On top of the lower bearing race or 2) At the bottom of the lower stem, under lower seal and bearing. Both ways gives same amount of thread left at the top, but the two alternatives affects where the lower seal gets seated. With the washer above bearing race the seal sits lower, more towards the opening of the steering head and causes less friction. With the washer at them bottom of the stem the seal sits a clearly up inside the steering head and seems to create noticable friction. When I realized that I already had the bearing races in place and the lower one didn't have an egde like the old one, sooo I let it sit there, put the washer at the bottom (as the All Balls instruction said) and "adjusted" the outer diameter a tiny bit. Time will tell if I will regtret that and have to redo the job in a few years. But I won't be driving the bike in rain anyway, unless I can avoid it. 

The CB650 didn't come with fork boots but I bought a set that I hope and think will fit, just for looks. New dust seals will of course be installed as well to do the proper job, but won't be seen with the boots in place.
 
/Jim

[grcamna2]

Jim,What type is that VHT paint ?

[Jimcg]

Jim,What type is that VHT paint ?

I used the following three VHT. Links are to the swedish place where I bought them but I guess you can tell some details about the paint anyway.

Self etching primer:
https://bjprace.se/farg-och-olja/vht-farg/vht-universal/vht-sjalv-etsande-primer/

Regular primer:
https://bjprace.se/farg-och-olja/vht-farg/vht-universal/vht-prime-coat-mork-gra/


Gloss black wheel paint:
https://bjprace.se/farg-och-olja/vht-farg/vht-falgfarg/vht-falgfarg-blank-svart/

They have a clear coat as well but it's only 1K so I didn't use it. I'll have to be careful and not spill brake fluid or gasoline on them. We will see how durable it is.

/Jim

[grcamna2]

Ah,ok. Poly coating wheel paint,the gloss looks good and the clear coat is also wheel paint.
I have just ordered VHT gloss black caliper paint which doesn't require a primer,according to the instructions.
The VHT caliper paint does recommend to properly cure the paint by letting it sit in an oven for 20 minutes at 200 degrees Fahrenheit,or allow it to be cured by the heat of the brakes:I will prefer to use the 'oven-cure' method to keep the paint safe from spilling brake fluid when that happens.

[Jimcg]

Label on the wheel paint can said it could be sprayed on suitable primer, but I can imagine that their heat resistant paints have other properties and instructions since they also have to be heated up to cure.

Hope your calipers likes their new paint and that you ordered enough paint. It sucks to run out of paint and you are not be able to continue within the recoat window. I had to put on four coats even though I thought I sprayed plenty the third time.

/Jim

[Jimcg]

I finished painting the comstars today. The etching primer had cured for nine days. I didn't find information about how long I had to wait before moving on with the paint process after I screwed up and missed the recoat window of the etch primer. But the label on the actual wheel paint said to wait for seven days if recoat window was exceed so I took that as a guideline.

I had loaded myself with a good night's sleep, what I thought was enough paint (and some extra for inner peace this time), double breakfasts and lots of coffee. I think they turned out okay, for me being a beginner with paint can in my hand.  But I am mentally prepared for sore surprises once they come out in the sunshine. I bet there will be bright spots inside the "spokes" of the comstars where I missed. My plan now is to let them hang and cure for a least a month before putting the tires on.     




I am also very pleased with the actual surface and finish of the VHT wheel paint, which I could inspect closer now on the fork legs and the other small parts I painted last session. I wanted an enamel type of look and that's how it turned out.

/Jim

[Jimcg]

Went to my local paint shop today with lots of questions about painting the tank. The poor guy behind the counter impressed me with his patience. Ordered the two dark ocean blue colors along with white and black and gold stripes. I have a plan not really suitable for a beginner but I'll give it a try.

Haven't decided about gloss or matt clear coat yet but since I will have to wait a couple of weeks before I put decals on I will have time to look at it in a shiny condition and figure that will help me make up my mind.

/Jim

[grcamna2]

Went to my local paint shop today with lots of questions about painting the tank. The poor guy behind the counter impressed me with his patience. Ordered the two dark ocean blue colors along with white and black and gold stripes. I have a plan not really suitable for a beginner but I'll give it a try.

Haven't decided about gloss or matt clear coat yet but since I will have to wait a couple of weeks before I put decals on I will have time to look at it in a shiny condition and figure that will help me make up my mind.

/Jim

Planning 'the finishing touch' 

[Jimcg]

So I've finished painting base color on the tank and tail cover. I "was inspired by" (can't say stole because mine won't be as good looking as theirs) the paint scheme from a bike built in Switzerland I saw online somewhere when I googled for inspiration, but they used two green colors and I went for two blue colors instead. Two green colors actually look better on a bike in my opinion but I didn't want to copy to much. I'm very excited to see how it will turn out along with decals and gold stripes but I have to deal with a couple of mistakes first.




I failed to notice an area not fully smooth sanded before I applied the darker blue on the top of the tank, in the dark blue field. Looks like tiny debris was stuck in the primer or spit spots from the primer spray can or something else. Can't believe I missed that after all the sanding and feeling with my hand... I also failed with the masking before the final blue color so at both sides at the front of the white fields some blue has leaked through, like a blue blurry line on each side. My stupid mistakes both of them!  I'll wait and see if it can be sanded away or if I will have to repaint those entire three areas. It sucks but then again this was my first attempt painting a tank. Only thing I ever spray painted before are the wheels and fork legs some weeks ago.

My next decision is if I should use gloss or matte clear on the tank and tail cover. That one is really difficult to visualize in my head how either option would look like. Nothing on this bike looks perfect and never will. Perfect is not my style, ambition nor do I have the skills and money. So I'm leaning towards matte for a rougher look but at the same time don't know if there are negative sides using matte finish (is it harder to wipe off and keep clean?). The base color I've used is 2k gloss.

While waiting for tank paint to fully cure (and possibly longer if I'll have to repaint my mistakes) before decals, stripes and then clear goes on I will assemble the forks, tires and mount the wheels.

/Jim

PS: It took me forever to do the masking for the different colors and I almost tore my hair off in frustration. I had bought thin masking tape thinking o needed that to form the slight curves. What I didn't understand beforehand was that such a thin tape is super hard to do straight lines with! Can't remember how many times I tore the tape off and had to start over. I nearly gave up several times! It looks so easy when skilled people on YouTube shows how to but what a struggle it was...

[rb550four]

  Will you be able to wet sand those issues out of the paint without getting back down to the metal, that would save you a bunch of time and material cost without starting from bare metal again.
   1/8 inch tape is allot easier to roll around curves than wider tape because it wont bunch up or leave air gaps that wet paint can sneak under. I've found that if you are right handed, start from the left and work to the right works best. I leave 6 inches between my left hand thumb that I lightly set the tape down with while the roll  is kept taunt, but not tight so you don't stretch the tape in the the right hand.  Set the tape lightly but equally with the thumb, lift and reset as you go if you need to get the tape to curve tighter, don't go forward until you are satisfied with the curve then run your thumb over that area a bit harder smoothly with equal pressure ,repeat and then go on to the straight lines. Straight lines I use 12 inch slack between hands ,go from point A to point B pressing lightly to set in a forward motion with left hand towards the roll of tape picking up the slack with the roll of tape hand so the tape will be set lightly in the line that you desire. Even if it isn't a straight line , like say you want to follow the contour of the tank the same method is used and as long as it is set lightly on initial set with the thumb, if you need to adjust the line ,lift the tape by the roll and reset it as you see fit .
   Once your tape has been set and rubbed so it is completely adhering to the tank you may cover that tape with wider tape and paper , leaving the new tape line just shy of your 1st tape line  finish edge and cover the area you wish not to paint with attached paper . Again hold the tape and paper the same way , press lightly to set initially then rub the thumb over the new tape until it is uniformly pressed onto the 1/8 inch first tape. Sometimes the line you want to cover is too thin to mess around with paper so you can use the  wide tape over that instead of paper but the initial paint has to be totally dry and cured , and you'll want to remove that tape soon, I leave tape tabs in the tape so I can grab an edge ( like leaving the 1/8  inch tape long around the back of the tank at the start and long on the end so I can grab it and pull it straight up( not sideways ) when the paint is complete but still tacky to get a decent line ...dried paint doesn't always break away nicely from the tape when it is sealed to the tank . Try to get all the tape off without getting your fingers in the paint and then on the tank , and keep pressure on your tape and paper while removing it so it doesn't swipe the tank  and leave paint or disturb the new paint. You can do it , don't be scared, just be careful. Your project is coming along nicely.

[Jimcg]

  Will you be able to wet sand those issues out of the paint without getting back down to the metal, that would save you a bunch of time and material cost without starting from bare metal again.

I hope so. I didn't start from bare, I just sanded the old clear off before I primed, after recommendations from staff at my local color shop. They sell and mix paint for cars so I trusted their advice to be ok.

Next weekend I will try to carefully sand and see what happens. I was going to sand the entire tank again later on, before attaching decals and stripes, but perhaps that counts more like "unglossing" so the decals and clear has a surface to stick to. But I'm waiting with sanding the entire tank a few weeks. If I got it right the gases have to come out of the 2K paint to avoid trouble with decals.   

   1/8 inch tape is allot easier to roll around curves than wider tape because it wont bunch up or leave air gaps that wet paint can sneak under. I've found that if you are right handed, start from...

Many thanks, rb550four, for your thorough and useful advice! I really appreciate it and wish I had asked here before I started. Spent lots of time reading and watching about painting and masking and thought I knew what I had to know but once I started new questions popped up. The thing with the thin tape was one of them. I laughed when I read your advice about being right handed and the best way to lay the tape. I can see myself like a cartoon caracter with question marks streaming out of both ears over just that, when I sat with the roll of thin tape and couldn't figure out in which direction I should start - all the ways I tried felt wrong and after more than an hour all I had accomplished was a pile of torn off tape. 

You can do it , don't be scared, just be careful. Your project is coming along nicely.

Thanks for encouraging words. This is what learning is about and it's the only way forward since I'm on a limited budget. Expentations and time frame has to be adjusted to that.

/Jim

[Jimcg]

So I've moved on with the paint on my tank, trying to fix the two problems I had caused first time. My ambition was to do as rb550four said, "just be careful", but since last post I've only managed to make it worse...

At first paint repair session the tank fell off the turning stool down on the working table when I was done masking before respraying one of my previous mistakes, the pitted dark blue area along the top (which was easy to sand down and make smooth).

The day after, just when I had layed first light coat of dark blue the tank fell all the way down onto the concrete floor! There are no words to describe how clumsy and stupid a person can be to let that happen - two times in a row too!!! Fortunately it landed in upright position and only seemed to be a little damaged at the black bottom paint. But some dust particles got into that first layer I had just put on when it landed but there was nothing I could do about that at the time. I think I can live with that.

A couple of days later when I removed masking after sanding and repainting lower black part that got damaged when hitting the floor, I found that I once again had failed to mask properly, so a small dust of light primer has found its way into the newly repainted dark blue area, just where it meets the seat... If I'm lucky it will be covered by the seat or a tank pad. I also inspected the sides closer and found a few marks from when it fell onto the table. Both sides also seem to be less smooth overall and I'm not surprised after those falls. Time will tell if the filler I applied after I removed the Honda emblems will start to crack under the paint and make the paint crack too. I sunk heavily to the floor for a while but decided to accept my mistakes and just let it be for now and continue putting the bike together. I will either accept it once it's on the bike (the rest of the bike is after all 39 years old and in used condition) or fix it later on. Otherwise I probably wouldn't manage to get it drivable until summer is over. Who knows how many new mistakes I would make if I would start over?! 

I can always say I bought a used tank some loser tried to paint and that I'm planning to repaint it. It annoys me A LOT that if I had only been more careful the first time I painted all colors, I would have gotten a really good result for a beginner. It really sucks to be clumsy! 

Anyway, a few more days have passed and today I got the tail cover and seat in place:




Forks and fender have also found their way back. I'll wait and see how much forks will compress when it's back on the ground before I secure lower ends of the fork boots, but there is a risk the ones I bought are to short. But I like the looks:




Oh, I almost forgot to mention that respaying the white stripes went okay, strangely enough.

/Jim

[Jimcg]

I'm almost done now with the changes I had in mind from the beginning, as well as the ideas that came up or had to come up during the process. There are things left to do before I can take it for a ride but at least now it looks like a bike again and it shows what I have been aiming for, style wise.





With the wheels in place and the bike back on the ground again meant I could remove the straps it's been hanging from and finally reinstall the tank and see how everything looked together. The tank turned out the same way as my home made seat, which means I'm very pleased with the design but unfortunately it was me doing the work so the amateur level is very obvious. But I think it looks nice from a distance with the double taillight arrengement I made and the tail cover. I wanted the bike to look less bulky and heavy, most importantly look shorter at the rear and overall more alert, like a softer version of aggressive.

Some of the black paint on the front rim got damaged when I mounted the tires but I expected that for two reasons: I had done the painting myself and also had never mounted motorcycle tires before. Tried the zip tie method with the front tire and it sucked. Took me more than an hour and I was frustrated, angry and exhausted at the end and slipped several times with the irons doing the last and hardest part. With the rear I just used tire irons and pieces of plastic cut from a plastic container for washer fluid (thin but very durable) and was being careful and was done in 10 minutes with no damaged paint at all... I really like the look of the Avon tires and look forward to getting to know them on the road.

My plan was to paint some of the letters on the tires in white, but after having to repaint the front rim and after all the trouble I had with the tank I deciced not to do anything more paint wise for a while. I know white letters are impractical but it's such an important style attribute in my memory from cool vehicles I admired when I grew up so I think I want to have it. Might change my mind though and keep them all black.

A new handlebar is mounted (LSL Super Bike) and small mirrors are coming on soon along with new grips. Gauges and front light are lowered some but not much - only what stock cables would allow.

What's left on this year's to do list is put the brake calipers back on with new pads, finish up the wiring to tail lights, mount the license plate and do the procedure to align the forks and then double check all the bolts and nuts I have worked on. After that I can fill up the tank take it for a test ride and see if the level of fork oil seems right and/or if I should add some preload spacers in the forks. If, I mean when, things work I will have to take it to one last mandatory inspection before I can hopefully have fun with it during this summer.

I have learned a lot just since last summer and am very grateful for all you knowledgeable guys sharing lots of useful information for beginners like me. Most of all I've learned a lot about things to avoid when painting! 😄

/Jim

[grcamna2]

Very nice work Jim.

[scunny]

Turning out very nice. I liked the original colour combo you posted, but the blue and white will do in the mean time.