Topic: How original is this K1

[samfig]

I can across this bike in Bring a Trailer but I don't know much about how the K1 and how it differs to my K3.  It seems like there are parts that are too polished to be made to look original, the engine.  So, what are your thoughts on how this bike looks to the original?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-honda-cb750-6/][url]https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-honda-cb750-6/[/url]

[samfig]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-honda-cb750-6/

[Nurse Julie]

It's restored, it does say it in the listing.

[ekpent]

 Yes its a nice looking resto and bringing good money. Not really a rider per say. Two things that I see that are wrong from being totally stock are the rear shocks which should have a black inner body and the spark plug caps are for a 550 and not a 750.

[754]

What it's too shiny ? I am sure somone  here would trade a nice original set of crabs for the polished ones.
 They may not have cleared the engine covers which may affect the look.
 Top fin appears polished.. not sure if they came bare or painted..
Sounds like it has locking gas cap.. can be changed..
 It's a very nice bike, priced accordingly.

[Rookster]

Another small thing is the master cylinder would have been anodized black.  The master cylinder cap should be dished on top and also black.  There aren't any clear pictures of it so it could be the correct cap just polished.  For some reason the petcock and the carbs are polished.  Otherwise than what was already mentioned it looks really correct.I

Scott

[ekpent]

 Now if it was a perfect resto it would have some yellow blobs of paint in all the correct places !  I had a friend come down to my place once when he was restoring a bike and took pictures and notes of all the places he could find that inspection paint and gauge its true color of some of my un-molested stuff. He had to search hard to find the proper length of rubber thingie coming out of the rear fender under the license plate. He was very thorough.

[Dunk]

It's obviously been restored, so not particularly "original". I'd say we're discussion more of what is correct or not. Incorrect for K1 things that I noticed...

Master cylinder cap
Spark plug caps
Throttle linkage rubber boots
Shocks
Air box
Many bolts
Some polished bits
Speedometer cable guide
Electronic ignition/incorrect ignition wire insulation/sheathing
Brake stay

That being said, it's a very nice restoration. I don't think the incorrect for K1 detract from value significantly to anyone but the person who must have a 100% factory correct restoration. I'd ride the heck out of this one, from the listing description and pictures I get the impression the poor thing has sat unused most of the time since being restored.

[Prospect]

One thing that I have seen incorrect on almost all restorations including this one is the pain to the side covers.  The bottom of the side cover where it attaches to the grommet should not be painted the same colour as the rest of the side cover.  The little triangle part is actually painted black to make the side cover look more rectangular in shape.  Otherwise it's a fantastic restoration.
 
Not like this


Should be like this

[ekpent]

 Good one Prospect,I always forget about that. They painted that black on all the years 71-76.

[Prospect]

$13,250 That's a lot higher than I thought it would sell for.  I was beginning to suspect that the market is soft but apparently wealthy people are stuck at home and eager to spend a bit of cash on something.

[Nurse Julie]

Wow, I was watching that auction. At $13,250 ( approx £10.250 GBP here in UK) that is seriously high money for a bike that when you look closely, really is a poor restoration attempt . In the UK that bike would have made about £8500 on a very good day. A fully restored top class UK model K1 will sell for about £14-15000 GBP as they are so rare here due to very limited numbers of original UK K0/K1/K2's.

[Dunk]

Wow, I expected closer to $10k. I thought $12k-$15k  was top of the market for only the most correct restorations. What also concerns me is there was no mention of what was done (or not) with the engine during the restoration. Could be entirely original, and apparently sat unused in some guys living room for over two years. Probably needs a freshening up and some new odds and ends as preventative if it has never been apart and mostly sat unused.

That and some things jump out at me as just cutting corners or cheaping out... Like who restores a bike to that level and puts cheap knockoff Taiwan tires on it rather than spending under $100 more for quality reputable tires? I could be mistaken but those look like the cheap under $100 aftermarket shocks, why not Hagon or Ikon if restoring to not quite 100% correct? Why the more expensive but correct side cover jewels rather than cheaper repops, given the other things? Unless the whole point was to have a conversation piece sitting in the living room... But then why the incorrect airbox, a correct airbox is pretty easy to find and cheap. Same for master cylinder cap, various finishes, correct repops of levers or restoring originals, etc. If it was destined to be a conversation piece and never ridden then why cut corners on the things that make the appearance correct? And why bother with electronic ignition or the other things that would make it nicer to ride? I suppose each of us go through our of journey with every restoration, and our reasons for doing things a certain way may not be clear to others at a glance.

Still, $13,250 makes me wonder for just a moment about my weekly peg scraping rides on my restored K1 which I (biased perhaps) consider done to a similar or better level, minus the original pipes.

[Artie]

Im not sure what’s wrong with air box?
Please enlighten me

[PeWe]

Restore a bike is not cheap either.
If starting with a CB750 without 4-4, tank and side covers are not good. Order all that from Yamiya. Rims and spokes are rusty, new from DSS.
Fork pipes rusty, new, headlight ears are rusty. Maybe new fenders

Fixing engine, guides and valves need most likely be fixed and seats cut.
Overbore pistons, all gaskets and seals. Most of all bearings everywhere. New clutch plates, all internal chains and tensioners, primary hub cush rubbers as well as rear wheel cush rubbers, new carb boots, new cables. New mirrors, stock still not that costly. Alternator cover night be deeply scratched as well as ignition cover. New ignition completely with coils. New electrical stuff and harnesses.
Fix the speedo and tacho, if bad happy to find both NOS for over $1000US.

Upon this small missing or crappy parts.

Cheaper to find a good very low mile original, parked on a dry and warm place

[Dunk]

Im not sure what’s wrong with air box?
Please enlighten me

The lettering on the side. It's from a newer bike, maybe an F model. Not familiar with specifics on the the late SOHC4's but the early bikes had no markings on the side of the air boxes.

[Dunk]

PeWe, indeed a restoration is not cheap. I restored my K1, not 100% concours but what I'd consider a nice rider. Better than this one in my biased opinion both from a more correct perspective as well as to ride from a functional and performance perspective. Down to frame, cosmetics, upgraded suspension and electronic, top end rebuild on engine with head porting, etc. Everything except HM300 pipes which would have added about $2k for repops. I commute on mine a couple times a week when it's dry, through the winter when it's around freezing temp in the morning, weekly spirited vintage group rides, and generally use it as it was meant to be used though to be fair when it may rain I'll ride one of my other bikes.

I'm fairly rigorous about tracking every penny I spend so I know what mine cost both when I restored it in 2013-2014 and everything since then. The costs since restoration are high as I was hit by a car when commuting. An interesting detail about that is the insurance company paid me the agreed value for total loss and deduct salvage value. I suspect they were throwing me a bone since the person who hit me was also insured with them with a minimum coverage policy and I couldn't get blood from a stone. Permanent back injuries, I wouldn't recommend it. Either way, after payout for total loss my TCO on this restored K1 is $1,308.60. No idea how many hours I spent on it or how that might be valued, but it was a lot.

Bike	$1,200.00
Parts	$8,063.51
Total Restoration	$9,264.00
Since Restoration	$2,745.09
Total Spent	$12,009.00

My K1 started (for me) as a nice rider condition bike and mostly original. I don't know that a more original lower mile bike that had mostly sat in a garage would have been any cheaper or less work for that matter. It would still need complete disassembly, cleaning, countless parts, and everything gone through. Not necessarily faster or cheaper for the end result but you might spend more up front.

Getting back to the bike that sold on BAT, I can't imagine the guy that restored it had more than half the sale price into it, granted it was the next guy that sold it on BAT so who knows what he paid 2-3 years ago. Values of these bikes are going up, more so for the early bikes. The more correct or original they are the more they will be worth to a buyer. $13,250 for an older restore to rider condition non-runner that at least needs the usual carb rebuild and tune up stuff. I just find this sale listing and thread particularly interesting since I have a restored K1. Even though I never intend to sell my K1 or any of my bikes I try to keep up on market values if only for insurance purposes given my experience illustrating how important agreed value insurance is.

[PeWe]

$10.000US  disappear quickly on a restore/modification. But it is fun and fantastic that so many parts can be found new today.
A good hobby.

Who needs to ride faster than 200 kmh on normal roads?
A stocker has no problem to cruise in 160kmh (100mph), handling can handle it too.

[Kevin D]

Dunk, I’m reading your comments carefully and although mine isn’t in the same pristine condition as the BaT bike, it’s decent, presentable, and hasn’t been a money pit. I have been riding the wheels off of it and it’s covered with bugs, chain lube, small leaks, bad chrome, etc., and it is more original. But I wonder about it’s value, for insurance purposes. I hope I never have to spring for new pipes, gas tank, seat, etc.

A couple more non-original items, one small, one bigger:
- brake stay bar painted, not plated
- engine number 650 less than frame number.
I’m not saying the BaT bike is wrong, just not original. Anybody around here got A 7/70 K1? My 11/70 build is far from that kind of s/n e/n combination.

[Dunk]

My 3/71 K1 engine number is 309 higher than the frame.
My 8/71 K1 engine number is 1020 lower than the frame number.

I don't recall what is the correct ballpark for an original engine. The 3/71 bike had a real screamer of an engine. The 8/71 has two pistons in backwards. Both had obviously been out so no idea on originality. I don't recall what the correct or expected range or difference is for a given frame number.

[Artie]

Im not sure what’s wrong with air box?
Please enlighten me

My error I see that the air box is for a CB750 F but rear shocks look correct 
black body? Thought 70-76 shocks all the same all chrome bodies and springs

[Artie]

Also in further review there are no fuel lines installed to carbs
and to further nitpick as to originality ....isn’t the adjusting nut on rear brake light switch square?

[ekpent]

Im not sure what’s wrong with air box?
Please enlighten me

My error I see that the air box is for a CB750 F but rear shocks look correct 
black body? Thought 70-76 shocks all the same all chrome bodies and springs

70 and 71 had a black inner body and the round aluminum top attachment to the frame was black also. You can kind of see it in this bone stock unmolested K1 of mine but a close-up pic would show it better. This other brown one still has the 'black' shocks also.

[PeWe]

Good information about details here.

[754]

I think most of the late airboxes  are marked with the F , on all models. ..see that all the time.
 Yes black top shocks on early bikes.