Author Topic: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?  (Read 2717 times)

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Offline oldfart

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Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« on: June 30, 2023, 06:39:51 AM »
There are two motorcycles in my shop right now that typify the evils of form over function. One of them my customer purchased as a "restored" motorcycle. It is just one more machine in a countless string that has solidified my decades-long conviction that no one should ever buy a restored vehicle. Every area I look at shows the choice of form over function in the evidence of improper assembly, parts and adjustment. Restorers, virtually none of whom understand mechanics, really do more harm than good. Believe it. Flash deceives. It distracts. It bows to form over function. The other project before me is an equally sad commentary on the cosmetic obsession ethos that has come to prevail in the vintage Honda world. In talking over the work with this second bike's owner I am dispirited at his inability to appreciate the bike's fifty years of mechanical and electrical neglect and abuse and his unreasonable obsession with paint, polish and powdercoat.

When did this happen? How has it happened? Chrome worship was once almost a unique characteristic of the Harley crowd. We never saw this ethos in mainstream motorcycling. Today however, superficiality seems to have taken over. Roadworthiness is no longer a thing. Don't adjust your clutch properly or observe correct electrical repair technique or use the highest quality carburetor parts, control cables, hoses, clamps and fasteners. Don't pursue correct timing or good compression or a clean fuel system. There are parts to shine, powdercoat to apply, chrome to buy. The picture of the machine sporting a brand new loud aftermarket exhaust yet with steering bearings dangerously loose is now almost classic and in some ways universal. One of my customers has a stable of 70s Hondas and none of them get their drive chains regularly lubricated because that might get dirt specks on the wheel (never mind that only incorrect lubing technique does that). Ack! What is wrong with these people?!

A few years ago I did a "super tune" on an iconic Honda, a model that is nearly the posterboy for misguided motorcycle affection. Naturally, predictably and inevitably the work extended beyond making the engine run its best to addressing issues with brakes, steering, electrical and more. But for me the usual emjoyment in doing this work was lost. The whole time I fettled this machine I had to steadily combat the owner's insistence on using the cheapest possible Internet-sourced aftermarket repair parts. In many cases he would without consulting me buy things and send them to me, only to have me throw them in a box or suggest he return them, so utterly unsuitable and grossly inferior were they. And he never caught on. He never figured out that your bike's operational excellence is where motorcycling joy comes from, not how many pennies you save.

I am mystified. I just can't understand what these people are thinking. Maybe the answer is they don't own motorcycles for the joy of riding but rather as angst objects. That is, objects to which they can direct their insecurities, their control anxieties, their life frustrations. I have observed that on some level this is true about possessions in general with most of us. Our emotional needs often get worked out on the things around us, the things (and people) we love. In another lifetime I had a customer who every few months was adding some new "trick" part, some promise of heightened excitement, to his motorcycle. I intuited early on that I was watching some unspoken and indefinable need being exercised, and it was both fascinating and sad at the same time. But never in my more than fifty years in the motorcycle trade has this tableu been more widespread than it is now.
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline jgger

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2023, 07:33:35 AM »
Spot on rant. It isn't just motorcycles, as a carpenter (semI-retired) i have seen this same mentality in play where these people live. My mantra is "when you think you've seen it all, pay attention because something new is going to show up"!

This is what the vacuum of eliminating shop classes in school looks like. T. V. Home improvement shows are a perfect example of this. I even worked on one of the star's of one such shows personal home. All I can say is what a hack!
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2023, 07:53:26 AM »
Yes, you can clean up an old bike and also make it look good but the "prime directive" should be making it solid and run correctly.
Yes, the dearth of apprenticeship programs and school programs aimed at various skills has cost us a lot as a nation. We have millions of kids that think work is limited to keyboards and such and that "someone else" takes care of things that require practical skills.
We also have many employers that cannot find a decent skilled worker because they all retired!
Time for the pendulum to swing back, not every kid can become a dot com bazillionair.
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Offline Gurp

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2023, 08:40:32 AM »
In my early 30s and it's amazing how few people in my age group can actually repair or maintain their own things anymore.

Most of my tinkering buddy's at 10 or 20 years older than me at this point.

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Offline Floshenbarnical

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2023, 10:01:36 AM »
In my early 30s and it's amazing how few people in my age group can actually repair or maintain their own things anymore.

Most of my tinkering buddy's at 10 or 20 years older than me at this point.

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Same. I'm 33 and everyone I know has looked at me like I'm some sort of ancient, inscrutable wizard since they found out I've been tinkering with an old bike. Hopefully they will start to leave offerings of gold, lamb, wine on my doorstep to gain my favor and avoid falling victim to my terrible arcane powers.
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Offline jgger

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2023, 10:58:40 AM »
In my early 30s and it's amazing how few people in my age group can actually repair or maintain their own things anymore.

Most of my tinkering buddy's at 10 or 20 years older than me at this point.

Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk

Same. I'm 33 and everyone I know has looked at me like I'm some sort of ancient, inscrutable wizard since they found out I've been tinkering with an old bike. Hopefully they will start to leave offerings of gold, lamb, wine on my doorstep to gain my favor and avoid falling victim to my terrible arcane powers.

Beware of flaming bags! Bawhahahaha!
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline rocket johnny

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2023, 11:29:19 AM »
my 76 k-6 is a source of joy in my life .  i bought her 11 yrs ago . she had sat for 10 yrs.  i'm lucky i've turned wrenches since i was a kid .  did auto restorations for a profession for 10 yrs.  so when i bought wanda , i started at the front and finished at the tail light .  new tires , wheel bearings , brakes , rebuild caliper , new wiring harness ,, you get the picture .   now she is a ton of fun to ride and i've put over 60k miles on her .  now its just oil changes , valve and cam chain adj , lube the drive chain and ride the snot out of her .  i'm lucky to live in western colo and ride almost year round.

Online Don R

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2023, 12:34:51 PM »
 40 years ago, I was a service plumber and was greatly impressed by the ladies that were left to fend for themselves during WW2. A good number of them could have fixed their own plumbing if they had the tools.
 One in particular, coached me on flaring copper tube when I was distracted talking to her and forgot to put on the flare nut first. L0L!
 These days we just install cheap replacement parts rather than repair older more valuable things.   
  Our choices are about to become limited by availability, I'm noticing more original or quality parts out of stock and unavailable.
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Offline Gurp

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2023, 02:29:17 PM »
In my early 30s and it's amazing how few people in my age group can actually repair or maintain their own things anymore.

Most of my tinkering buddy's at 10 or 20 years older than me at this point.

Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk

Same. I'm 33 and everyone I know has looked at me like I'm some sort of ancient, inscrutable wizard since they found out I've been tinkering with an old bike. Hopefully they will start to leave offerings of gold, lamb, wine on my doorstep to gain my favor and avoid falling victim to my terrible arcane powers.
Yes I'm 33 as well. Always loved old metal.
Currently my lineup is my daily driver a beater 61 GMC truck.
Have a 63 bel air I'm putting together (very slowly) for the ole lady.
Then in stages a 73 500 74 55 and 75 75 and rigid and projects.
A 68 sporty I'm starting on and a 93 Evo sporty bobber that's my daily until I get the 73 done.
A 54 Chevy car project I'm going to offload for the parking space back.

My dad taught me young. Not for hobby but it's how we made it when I was young.  Lots of hustle and lots of side jobs.

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Offline oldfart

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2023, 03:47:51 PM »
Quote
Currently my lineup is my daily driver a beater 61 GMC truck.
Have a 63 bel air I'm putting together (very slowly) for the ole lady.
Then in stages a 73 500 74 55 and 75 75 and rigid and projects.
A 68 sporty I'm starting on and a 93 Evo sporty bobber that's my daily until I get the 73 done.
A 54 Chevy car project I'm going to offload for the parking space back.

Respect to you sir.
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2023, 04:17:26 PM »
built my own battery electric motor from a science kit when i was around 8.....counted every armature winding,
scrounged trashed mowers starting at the age of 12...circa 1965.....fixed 'em...at one point had 13 of 'em, sounded cool running them at the same time....Actually haven't purchased a mower in some 40 years..still getting trashed ones....
built our own go carts outa wood and trashed horizontal briggs&strattons.....we all should've died.....

do all my own repairs..( no rebuilding) but not just cars, bikes, boats.....also household appliances, repairs, maintenance, electrical (basic), etc....
....saving money...a little proud......my electric water heater was built in 1991......

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2023, 05:19:17 PM »
Did y'all see where Raytheon had to re-hire the retired to come and help them make more Stinger missiles for the military?

https://www.defenseone.com/business/2023/06/raytheon-calls-retirees-help-restart-stinger-missile-production/388067/

LONG LIVE THE WRENCHERS! :D
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2023, 05:32:22 PM »
Oldfart:  well written, sir!

Reminds me of the story of my 70CB750. She was neglected when i got and I put the effort in to make her reliable - but she never had the looks.  Got some good ribbing here for the seat and such  ;D
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Offline MauiK3

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2023, 07:19:25 PM »
By the time the Cold War was winding down we decided we didn’t need many machinists, pipefitters, welders, etc. Now, companies can’t find welders that can weld pipe that will stand up to X-ray inspection.
I’ll never be wealthy (meaning $) but I can keep my stuff going.
There are some great folks here keeping some of these skills alive.
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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2023, 08:06:28 PM »
Friend in Sierra Vista, home of Fort Huachuca US Army post, has been taking welding classes at the local community college. His instructor is a female with arm long list of welding certifications and she can weld pretty much anything and is certified for atomic pipes and the like. Her husband is current Army and is similarly skilled. He recently finished up his last class with her as instructor. Hubby is getting out of Army and they are moving somewhere that needs high end welders and they are going to make out like bandits for the next several years putting those skills to use.

If we had a big war requiring a lot of tooling and machines for rapid response to cranking up production we will be hard pressed to respond as the skilled trade labor pool of machinists and guys who know how to do those kinds of jobs has gotten too thin. The SideWinders Raytheon is restarting has a 20 month window on deliveries for the orders as the old guys, 70s, who used to build them are having to teach current production people how to build them and they are having to redesign some of the circuits to build the missiles as they can no longer source original parts for that circuitry. They cannot rebuild and replace the designs because that would require a long tail of test programs and certification of the new electronics suites and designs…just having to build the circuits with replacement components to achieve the same results. So, between the long tail of redesigns and retraining with lots of stuff being hand built and fitted the production turnaround is pretty long. All the test equipment for the stingers is having to be pulled out of storage as they haven’t built any for nearly 10 years I think the article said.

The response to orders for 105mm howitzer shells is pretty long too as they don’t have the production capacity available and it takes a long time to expand a production line for more capacity. The war in Ukraine has shown a bright light on that issue and others.
Same kind of thing would apply for hard goods that requires machine tools to create…
Modern CNC equipment production wouldn’t be able to fill the gaps and you cannot build the CNC machines fast enough to ramp up a production rapidly.

We really need to required our trade school and engineering hands on capabilities, software cannot solve everything…not even close…
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline Gurp

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2023, 08:10:35 PM »
Friend in Sierra Vista, home of Fort Huachuca US Army post, has been taking welding classes at the local community college. His instructor is a female with arm long list of welding certifications and she can weld pretty much anything and is certified for atomic pipes and the like. Her husband is current Army and is similarly skilled. He recently finished up his last class with her as instructor. Hubby is getting out of Army and they are moving somewhere that needs high end welders and they are going to make out like bandits for the next several years putting those skills to use.

If we had a big war requiring a lot of tooling and machines for rapid response to cranking up production we will be hard pressed to respond as the skilled trade labor pool of machinists and guys who know how to do those kinds of jobs has gotten too thin. The SideWinders Raytheon is restarting has a 20 month window on deliveries for the orders as the old guys, 70s, who used to build them are having to teach current production people how to build them and they are having to redesign some of the circuits to build the missiles as they can no longer source original parts for that circuitry. They cannot rebuild and replace the designs because that would require a long tail of test programs and certification of the new electronics suites and designs…just having to build the circuits with replacement components to achieve the same results. So, between the long tail of redesigns and retraining with lots of stuff being hand built and fitted the production turnaround is pretty long. All the test equipment for the stingers is having to be pulled out of storage as they haven’t built any for nearly 10 years I think the article said.

The response to orders for 105mm howitzer shells is pretty long too as they don’t have the production capacity available and it takes a long time to expand a production line for more capacity. The war in Ukraine has shown a bright light on that issue and others.
Same kind of thing would apply for hard goods that requires machine tools to create…
Modern CNC equipment production wouldn’t be able to fill the gaps and you cannot build the CNC machines fast enough to ramp up a production rapidly.

We really need to required our trade school and engineering hands on capabilities, software cannot solve everything…not even close…
Trades are quickly dying. I live in a very blue collar/rural area and even we are lacking skilled tradesmen in our area other than welders. Welders are dime a dozen around here.

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Offline Trevor from Warragul

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2023, 02:37:37 AM »
There are some of us who equally value a sparkling and fully sorted motorcycle! During a recent trip to the Post Office I parked my CB350 Four, and when I came back, there was a fellow admiring it who was very keen to talk about his CB550 Four. Apparently he was having the engine rebuilt by someone who specializes in old Hondas. When the conversation had run its course, I fired up my bike, and it purred and tapped like a mid-1980's electric typewriter.  No knocks, no rattles, no clattering. He stared at the bike in disbelief, looked at me, and said "That's a helluva lot quieter than my bike!".

So, on the flip side, there are mechanically capable owners out there who won't trust their pride-and-joy with cowboy mechanics (no offence intended towards the author).

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Offline MauiK3

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2023, 08:01:23 AM »
When I worked at Mare Island Naval Shipyard before it was closed, the welding shop building had a large mural inside featuring an image of the back end of a donkey or mule, not sure which. At US Naval Shipyards the welders are all in Shop 26. Each trade and department gets a number.
The sign had a big SHOP 26 above the image and below it was

WE CAN WELD ANYTHING

EXCEPT THE CRACK OF DAWN

AND THE CRACK IN YOUR ASS
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Offline craz1

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2023, 08:59:27 AM »
All of you guys are spot on with the comments. Very few of the younger crowd likes to work on anything that does not have a keyboard. There are a few. But it takes years of tinkering. I started to work on bikes when I was 16 (1971) thinking I was going to build myself a Honda 750 chopper. Well I did but it took me a few years. My old man was an appliance repair man (remember those). He was able to raise 5 kids doing that. I was around 6-7 years old when he sat me down in the garage with a washing machine and some wrenches and told me to take it apart. I think I got most of it apart. So from the age of 16 I kept on learning, joined the Navy and learned electronics, got out and went to school for hydraulics, at 47 went back to school and learned HVAC which by the way gave me a great pension at 62. So everything was around mechanical devices. The majority of kids I have meet have no desire to even pick up a wrench. They are starting to implement trade schools again but may be a little late.
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Offline Keith

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2023, 09:35:19 AM »
Perfect timing for a thought I was having: I see “restored” cb750s going for huge sums. My questions are WHO restored the bike? Do you have “before” pics? Did you use OE parts? What were the engine measurements before the engine was rebuilt? Are there remnants of abrasive blasting in the engine? I could go on and on.  Seems to me a well sorted, unrestored bike is a far better option.

Offline oldfart

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2023, 02:28:46 PM »
Friend in Sierra Vista, home of Fort Huachuca US Army post, has been taking welding classes at the local community college. His instructor is a female with arm long list of welding certifications and she can weld pretty much anything and is certified for atomic pipes and the like. Her husband is current Army and is similarly skilled. He recently finished up his last class with her as instructor. Hubby is getting out of Army and they are moving somewhere that needs high end welders and they are going to make out like bandits for the next several years putting those skills to use.

If we had a big war requiring a lot of tooling and machines for rapid response to cranking up production we will be hard pressed to respond as the skilled trade labor pool of machinists and guys who know how to do those kinds of jobs has gotten too thin. The SideWinders Raytheon is restarting has a 20 month window on deliveries for the orders as the old guys, 70s, who used to build them are having to teach current production people how to build them and they are having to redesign some of the circuits to build the missiles as they can no longer source original parts for that circuitry. They cannot rebuild and replace the designs because that would require a long tail of test programs and certification of the new electronics suites and designs…just having to build the circuits with replacement components to achieve the same results. So, between the long tail of redesigns and retraining with lots of stuff being hand built and fitted the production turnaround is pretty long. All the test equipment for the stingers is having to be pulled out of storage as they haven’t built any for nearly 10 years I think the article said.

The response to orders for 105mm howitzer shells is pretty long too as they don’t have the production capacity available and it takes a long time to expand a production line for more capacity. The war in Ukraine has shown a bright light on that issue and others.
Same kind of thing would apply for hard goods that requires machine tools to create…
Modern CNC equipment production wouldn’t be able to fill the gaps and you cannot build the CNC machines fast enough to ramp up a production rapidly.

We really need to required our trade school and engineering hands on capabilities, software cannot solve everything…not even close…

I am simpatico with these musings, and could not have articulated them better.  On a positive note, I recall reading somewhere that those who advocated during the past couple decades doing away with the trades are giving way to a resurgence in interest in those trades among authorities (trying hard to stay apolitical) who can make a difference.  I hope so. 
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline oldfart

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2023, 02:33:56 PM »
A followup.  Last week I completed a gentle little massaging of a 71 (first year) CB500 four.  The owner bought it from a "restorer" and it turned out to be a disappointingly typical dress it up, paint it up product of a mechanically challenged and certainly largely Honda-ignorant individual.  It largely precipitated my post.

Even so, over a few days time I made dear love to that old Honda, and every time I glance at it sitting completed on my lift I caress it with my eyes.  Poor tuning technique, munged up (and badly set up--one float was so far off it sooted one of the spark plugs) carbs, flaky aftermarket ignition, Chinese ignition coils, bad plug caps, a battery whose cells were fractured, and most egregious of all, some unfortunate sloppy maintenance that inspired serious electrical connector damage, and these connectors are one year only/one model only and thus required buying and canabalizing a used (and rare) whole bike harness as well as an also hard to find left side electrical panel. 

But I am saddened to be done with the bike.  I must be firmly in the grip of a significant bout of nostalgia.   :P
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

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Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2023, 05:14:13 PM »
As a sophomore in high school....I'd get bored in math class....not because I was a master at it, Id just get bored....
So I decided to try and build a "flying platform " from stuff in our backyard....Id sit in class and draw it up.
I took the four elongated, metal tri angular legs from our old 4 seat push/pull merry-go-round, some thick plywood, and  a vertical shaft 3.5 briggs/stratton, and a 2x4.
The thick plywood served as the upper motor mount and leg attach points, and lower leg attach points.
I understood basic propeller design so I traced out my prop design on the 2x4, carved and shaped the pitch and relative twist needed.....made it fit a blade mount and bolted it on...
On test day, i tethered all 4 legs tips just in case...started it up...It did make lots of wind, but way too much pitch so the motor never reached optimum rpm.........no lift off.....
But the fun I had "designing " and building it I never forgot..........more fun than math anyway....

Offline MauiK3

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2023, 06:27:40 PM »
MANY years ago, I think I may have been 8? I took my lamp apart and noticed the various connections. I thought, well, that could be simpler so I joined them all together and plugged it in.
Smoke and spark test ensues.
That might have got me started on figuring out why stuff was put together the way it was!!
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10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Motorcycling: Joy or angst outlet?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2023, 03:53:30 AM »
curiosity, young age, electricity ,.....and smoke go together.....

every briggs/stratton engine I tore down in my youth had the normal, typical Rt hand threaded crankshaft flywheel nut. Some were difficult, but I always got 'em off.....
......'cept one....
I finally had had enough of this one, as all of my usual methods didn't work.....
so I used every thing I could think of to hold the flywheel, propane torched the hell out of the nut, and got a breaker bar.......I snapped that threaded crank part right off....wtf!.......and that's when I learned about left hand threaded parts......
...that lesson has served me well....
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 03:55:55 AM by jlh3rd »