Topic: Question for Deltarider

[scottly]

You recently posted an off-topic statement on a technical thread:

"Asked for a reason why European cars that were so successful here and had such a good reputation that the manufacturer could maintain the same model for years and years, didn't sell in the States, an importer once responded sighing:
"We always hear this in our showrooms: "Where is the chrome?!" or "What?! Four cylinders only, do you hold me for poor?!"

Which of these European cars did we Americans not buy, because they didn't have enough chrome or only four cylinders??

[calj737]

Probably those made in Serbia 

[carnivorous chicken]

Some 150,000 people bought Yugos...

[calj737]

Some 150,000 people bought Yugos...

And they had partial chrome bumpers here in the States.

[Kelly E]

He must be talking about Peugeot's and Renault's. They tried to sell those POS cars here in the 80's.

[Don R]

 When I was a kid, my brother and I frequented a local junkyard looking for 50 ford stuff. It was full of Renaults, I think our local dealer dropped them and there weren't any easily available parts or techs to work on them. I always imagined making one with twin engines, then I got a 56 chevy with a Power Pack 265 woo hoo!
 Back then folks would drive a running car to the junkyard because dealers weren't giving much if anything for a trade-in. 

[70CB750]

Probably those made in Serbia 

Good old Zastavas  - they were sold as Yugos in the States. 

As far as I know Škoda exported to Canada back in the day. 

But you never had the pleasure to experience Trabants and Wartburgs - two stroke wonders from the Gross Deutch Reich - aka East Germany.   

[Remcod]

Must be the vw golf or rabbit I believe you call it? I had a peugeot 405 in the past, great car.

My first time in the us made me think why you guys need such big gaz guzzling beasts while you sit in there alone?



Luckily we like the same gaz guzzling bike.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A536B met Tapatalk

[Stev-o]

In the movie "Rainman", the character had trouble importing Lambo's!!

V12 motor, no chrome bumpers but a badass Italian car rarely seen these days.

[calj737]

I had a peugeot 405 in the past, great car.

Yeah they were!

[scottly]

I'm still waiting for Delta's answer to my question. Perhaps he missed this thread? I'll send him a PM...

[Deltarider]

Thanks for the PM, Scottly. I had missed it. Two cars came into my mind instantly and - to be honest - the first example is not a very good one. Have a look at the Citroën in the pic. Believe it or not, that flying saucer was launched in 19.....55! I remember having read somewhere in the 60-70s that Citroën complained about low sales figures in the US and they used to say they should have put more chrome on them to arrive at better results.
The car was not as durable as we are used to nowadays, but in spite of its reputation of window mechanisms failures and those kind of minor annoying breakdowns, everyone in Europe wanted to have one. It was the non plus ultra in handling. You could corner at any speed and after loosing a wheel, a complete wheel!, you could continue your trip on three, which made it a much wanted car by criminals btw. Also the police had a hard time aiming at a rear wheel. It was unmatched in comfort and packed with innovations which in those years was Citroëns trademark. In quite some industrial design musea the world over you'll find a DS (in French pronounced it means: goddess). Because of De Gaulle's policy however, French car manufacturers had to use French steel. All French cars of that era had to use that steel which was not exactly the equivalent of Swedish steel and that's an understatement. Realise Europe was still recovering from WW2.
In Europe we used to say: let the French and Italians design cars and then let the Germans build them.
A second car that comes to mind, is the Peugeot 504GL. I have had two of them and I have also driven a few (the Familia version) across the Sahara desert. The car was so good, it has been in production for over 30 years. In France maybe not even a decade, but in Nigeria and Argentina for years and years and the last ones - the pick-up version - were assembled in China. You still find these workhorses all over the world.
In spite of its great reputation - the 504 had won several East African Safari rallyes, in those years the hardest rallye - the Americans would not touch it and when they did, they managed to replace those wonderful Cibié headlights by inferior sealed beams (see pic).
"Yeah, we know they suck, but you now have four  and four is more than two. right? Isn't that great?!"
Another car I have good memories of was its predecessor, the 404. My father has owned two of them. Like the 504, also the 404 was a good car for travelling with a caravan. Up to this day, I never sat more comfortable in a car than in the 404s seats. The chaps in this video are not so comfortable however, but they do not complain about the overall robustness of their vehicle. Enjoy! 

[newday777]

I have a friend that still owns and drives his Citroën occasionally. And yes he speaks highly of it and it's suspension and the handling around corners. In the 60s and 70s there were some sold here in New England but the cost was high to buy and get serviced.
The 504 was a very common car here until the 70s when they couldn't meet the emissions criteria and poof the dealers dropped the franchise.

[70CB750]

I have a friend that still owns and drives his Citroën occasionally. And yes he speaks highly of it and it's suspension and the handling around corners. In the 60s and 70s there were some sold here in New England but the cost was high to buy and get serviced.

Of course!  Fantomas would not drive or fly a bad car 

[Deltarider]

Actually there are quite some garage workshops here that are specialized in these cars. In Amsterdam alone there are two or three of them. Because they're so dearly loved, there are still more riding around here than Benzes which were sold in larger quantities. The car is a legend. Yet my all time favourite is the Citroën HY van. It's so ultimately form follows function, so basic, so austere that it becomes beautiful in its uglyness. It was the best designed van of that era. Also in this Citroën you could continue your trip on three wheels btw. It has been manufactured over 30 years with only minor modifications like going from 6 V to 12 V.
The worst van designed ever imo, was the VW van. From a designer's point of view, everything was wrong with it. Not many know this, but the VW van was designed by a Dutchman. Mr. Pon's initial sketch on a piece of paper is treasured in the collection of our Rijksmuseum. Exactly that museum is seen in the background of the photos which depict the Citroën HY van. The irony.

[calj737]

Two cars came into my mind instantly and - to be honest - the first example is not a very good one. Have a look at the Citroën in the pic. I remember having read somewhere in the 60-70s that Citroën complained about low sales figures in the US and they used to say they should have put more chrome on them to arrive at better results.

You seem to believe anything and everything that you “read” when it comes to besmirching the US, perhaps you should actually read factual reports about why Citroen failed selling cars here. It was due to their own financial struggles and inability to meet regulatory requirements for passenger vehicles in the States. It had nothing whatsoever to do with a lack of chrome as you suggest.

A second car that comes to mind, is the Peugeot 504GL.
In spite of its great reputation - the 504 had won several East African Safari rallyes, in those years the hardest rallye - the Americans would not touch it and when they did, they managed to replace those wonderful Cibié headlights by inferior sealed beams (see pic).
"Yeah, we know they suck, but you now have four  and four is more than two. right? Isn't that great?!"

And again, a model that did sell here but the manufacturer withdrew from the market for financial and regulatory reasons. Once again, it never had a thing to do with a lack of “shiny bits” as you allege. Whether you agree with our regulatory requirements or not, it matters not as you don’t live here, drive here, vote here, or run the country (we already have another potato brain doing that currently).

You pick two of the most obscure cars that together sold less units globally than a single Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Toyota, Honda model did and cite that as example of how chrome was their market downfall? What an absolute moronic ideal… 

[Deltarider]

 Calj, to appease your rage a bit. Practcally all Americans we met on our travels in the US concluded: "you have seen more of our country than we have". That's one. I correspond with countrymen of you on a daily basis. That's two. But ask yourself why my contribution angers you so much? We Dutch don't mind to be ridiculed. We can take it. We do it ourselves. An American historian once asked me, why he had seen so few flags in the Netherlands? Except for a few days, we don't hang them out and even these three or four days, only a minority does it. A couple of years ago, some rightwing politician remarked we did not have a national flag in our House of Parliament and - in spite of we never had one there - stubbornly insisted we should have one. He was laughed at, but to end his rage, congress admitted and put one, just one flag there in the modest size they could find. That's humor. Why should one be proud of his country, his nationality? What has been your merit in being born, where you were born? What nonsense is that? Think about it!

[calj737]

Calj, to appease your rage a bit. Practcally all Americans we met on our travels in the US concluded: "you have seen more of our country than we have". That's one. I correspond with countrymen of you on a daily basis. That's two. But ask yourself why my contribution angers you so much? We Dutch don't mind to be ridiculed. We can take it. We do it ourselves. An American historian once asked me, why he had seen so few flags in the Netherlands? Except for a few days, we don't hang them out and even these three or four days, only a minority does it. A couple of years ago, some rightwing politician remarked we did not have a national flag in our House of Parliament and - in spite of we never had one there - stubbornly insisted we should have one. He was laughed at, but to end his rage, congress admitted and put one, just one flag there in the modest size they could find. That's humor. Why should one be proud of his country, his nationality? What has been your merit in being born, where you were born? What nonsense is that? Think about it!

Nothing but more blather… because you weren’t born here is why you don’t understand the motivation to be proud of it. Despite all our faults, we remain the most free country in the world drawing the largest immigration numbers. Why, if it weren’t because of what is on offer here versus elsewhere, would so many seek to live here? I don’t need to think about it, I know it. You do not.

It’s true, many Americans don’t travel our country. It’s vast and each portion of our country has their own, unique cultural differences. These differences don’t attract everyone to them. Some, like you, draw inaccurate conclusions about what other areas are like, how people behave there, etc. I have traveled this entire country as well as much of our globe. I’ve visited well over 80 countries and every state here. I can speak with firsthand knowledge about how things are because I know it. It’s not to say my experience is all-encompassing of each country, but I have little criticism of any place on earth as I’ve always found wonderful people, wonderful places, and little cause to feel entitled to criticize my “neighbor”. You might pull your head out and consider upgrading your own bias and narcissus to do less of it.

It’s not rage, it’s contempt for the contemptuous.

[carnivorous chicken]

The US is actually ranked 50th in terms of freedom, the Netherlands at #9. But do carry on.

[Kaze]

Americans always ramble on about freedom but constantly fight to take it away from each other.

[jgger]

The US is actually ranked 50th in terms of freedom, the Netherlands at #9. But do carry on.

Interesting statement, not that it has anything to do with unsellable automobiles,  and this thread is probably headed to "thread jail". But who did the ranking and what were the metrics of this study?

[carnivorous chicken]

The US is actually ranked 50th in terms of freedom, the Netherlands at #9. But do carry on.

Interesting statement, not that it has anything to do with unsellable automobiles,  and this thread is probably headed to "thread jail". But who did the ranking and what were the metrics of this study?

Freedom House, although there are several others that do the same kind of aggregating, such as the Economist's Democracy Report (freedom and level of democracy are often intertwined).

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=asc&order=Total%20Score%20and%20Status

The site has notes about methods and sources. The US has been declining for the past decade or so, and it's hard not to acknowledge some of the changes that have resulted in lower rankings.

[calj737]

CalJ, you're very proud of yourself. You may be intelligent, perhaps well read, and well traveled but you're still a smug prick who can't get along with others. You appear believe that you're better than others, but the fact that you stoop to calling others names like "dolt" and "asshat", coupled with your bragging, points to the fact that you are a very average keyboard warrior, with very little to share other than contempt.

Seeing you join in on the gang-bang on Deltarider is absolutely expected. Nobody cares how special you are but you. So you have a bit of knowledge in certain areas, but are you really that great? I think you're just another self-proud jerkoff who doesn't make contributions without just a little spite in your tone. You should go look at yourself in the mirror and masterbate instead of prattling on here. That guy is who you should deal with.

Make no mistake, Cal, you're a wimp who deals with people online. Period.

Deltarider is a quirky fellow. So am I. So are a lot of you. But the gang-bang is pussy-style.

Interesting summation. Quite wrong, but you’re entitled to your uninformed opinion.

[simon#42]

bloody hell this thread went down hill fast , i was just going to add how much i loved my 504 pickup .

[calj737]

bloody hell this thread went down hill fast , i was just going to add how much i loved my 504 pickup .

Shame that more of them didn't come to the US. Reputation is they were great little cars. Had a 405 that was an absolute dream. Saddened me when it came to move on from it.