Author Topic: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??  (Read 2447 times)

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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2024, 06:05:31 PM »
800 mile unrestored CB350F.

I would call the clutch cover polished

Sorry but that to me has been polished, for instance it no longer matches the dipstick which is the standard colour for Honda cases. If you can see a reflection then it's been polished, generally you can't see a reflection at all.

Sorry but this bike has never been touched , especially taking off the clutch cover off to polish. It is a time capsule to what they looked like new
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2024, 06:08:29 PM »
Be aware that removing the lacquer and paint can expose what Honda was hiding. Sometimes there are holes in the surface where air bubbles rose to the surface as it cooled, sometimes they almost made it but lie just below the surface and as you sand you expose them. Trying to get rid of them can be a nightmare, sometimes you succeed and sometimes you don’t. Be prepared to live with them if they haven’t gone after some work. I’ve actually sanded completely through a sprocket cover off a 500 as the corrosion was so bad and I was determined to get rid of the holes. TBH I strongly suspected it was a lost cause before I started but sometimes I can’t resist the challenge.

Ozzy, have you owned it from new?

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2024, 07:16:26 PM »
+1 on the "things hidden" by Honda!
I've even seen them filled in with [something] after the years removed the paint, making them look pitted. I guess they were just barely-acceptable castings at the time? Mostly I saw this on the late K0 and along the K1 era bikes, which was the peak sales periods.

I'm getting excited to see how your 350F comes out: I have one in less-than-marginal condition in my shed that I dream of doing to like you're doing to yours. The CB350F (and its little brother the 250F) are, IMHO, the most novel bikes Honda ever produced, and their styling is a commentary on the 1970s era of cool cars and bikes.
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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2024, 07:56:02 PM »
Ozzy, have you owned it from new?
[/quote]

I have not owned it since new. My dad bought me a brand new CB360T when I was 14. I traded  it for a 1976 CB750F IN 1978. Our neighbor bought it new and rode it 2x and dropped it both times.it had 45 miles on it. Buggered up the Dymo cover and I replaced it with a new one from Honda. It was polished and perfect.
I have a fascination with unrestored original bikes. If the covers were not painted with cloud silver they were polished not to a mirror finish and clearcoted.

Check out this 2 mile CB750F sold on BAT awhile back
 The Valve cover, wheel hubs fork bottoms, dymo cover chain cover,and clutch cover behind the chrome was polished and clearcoated

No Reserve: 2-Mile 1971 Honda CB750 for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $25,500 on November 5, 2020 (Lot #38,787) | Bring a Trailer
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-honda-cb750k2/

There are plenty more examples out there including some in my collection.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 08:01:34 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2024, 09:26:58 PM »
Ozzybud, I never said the original finish was not shiny.  Just that most of that shine comes from the clearcoat.  And yes, bikes that somehow escaped the ravages of time look great.  But that is not what polishers do.  I am sure that these parts recieved some level of prep between raw casting and final clear coat.  It's easy to see that the manufacturing process was not very thorough on tough to get at spots and spots that are not right out in the open.  Take a look at the side of the fork legs closest to the wheel sometime.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline M 750K6

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2024, 09:45:38 PM »
Oddjob's results are stunning.

My experience with the Honda bright alloys (forks, hubs/drum and engine side covers) is they are not of the same quality as on my Norton. I get mirror shine on the Norton, without tools. The Honda needed tools to get it looking good, but still not as good as the Norton.

'Modern' mass production vs., by then, traditional 'cottage industry'? But the Honda's still good, weathered the last 50 years better than I have! I've done more miles though  :)

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2024, 11:06:08 PM »
Following.
I like the product that polishes and keeps it protected from the elements,as I park my bike outside under a cover. Which one is recommended ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
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Offline M 750K6

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2024, 02:42:47 AM »
Elbow grease.

Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2024, 03:45:50 AM »
Ozzy, have you owned it from new?

I have not owned it since new. My dad bought me a brand new CB360T when I was 14. I traded  it for a 1976 CB750F IN 1978. Our neighbor bought it new and rode it 2x and dropped it both times.it had 45 miles on it. Buggered up the Dymo cover and I replaced it with a new one from Honda. It was polished and perfect.
I have a fascination with unrestored original bikes. If the covers were not painted with cloud silver they were polished not to a mirror finish and clearcoted.

Check out this 2 mile CB750F sold on BAT awhile back
 The Valve cover, wheel hubs fork bottoms, dymo cover chain cover,and clutch cover behind the chrome was polished and clearcoated

No Reserve: 2-Mile 1971 Honda CB750 for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $25,500 on November 5, 2020 (Lot #38,787) | Bring a Trailer
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-honda-cb750k2/

There are plenty more examples out there including some in my collection.
[/quote]

pics...original, unrestored....no sanding, refinishing, re-coating.....10,800 miles.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 03:47:45 AM by jlh3rd »

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2024, 07:07:55 AM »
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the subject. That to me just looks like a good spray job, it's too consistent, it's the same look in places you'd really struggle to get any polishing equipment in (my stuff is a good example, it's not as bright in the hard to reach areas) it's also too consistent across the range, buy a new cover, looks exactly the same as the old cover, you don't get that with polishing. Maybe the casting was in better condition than other castings and that's why it looks better than others? We'll never know unless Honda tells us how they were done and I doubt they'll do that. Plus as Mark says, it allowed them to use less than perfect covers as the paint hid all the imperfections, like bog on a tank. I've seen bikes come out of crate with sand under the paint, it's amazing how much gets past QC.

Not sure if the 350F comment was directed at me or not Mark but mines a 500 not a 350 with quite a few 550F2 parts on it, I picked the best of both models.

M750K6, you are correct. Honda used poor quality alloy, I joke it's most likely got some Toyko express paper in there, good quality alloy can be harder to shine up BUT it keeps it shine far far longer than Japanese alloy does. Harley alloy for instance is incredibly hard and takes some smoothing but it shines like hell when you get it right. I did some pieces for a mate and they came out great even though the condition wasn't great to start with.

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2024, 08:17:04 AM »
It's all good Oddjob.  I just know my urestored original bikes have aluminum parts that are still stunning after 50+ years and look consistent with bikes sold with low miles on BAT and other sites.

Maybe you got all the seconds on your side. Of the pond!
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Online Don R

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2024, 09:55:11 AM »
  The more you polish it, the more dirt comes out. In the end, you re-finish it until you are either satisfied or give up.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2025, 11:11:52 AM by Don R »
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2024, 10:08:16 AM »
Here's a comment that bound to provoke some reaction.

I've done a LOT of fork sliders in recent years. When you're looking at something for hours on end you start to spot stuff that you probably wouldn't otherwise.

I'm convinced the sliders were not cast complete. Stuff like the mudguard mounts were welded on afterwards, the bottom of the slider itself looks to have been welded into place as well, the caliper adjuster mount (500/550) certainly looks like another weld job. I can actually see the difference in the colour of the alloy where the welds are, the mudguard mounts appear to have been tubes just welded on and then the end has been filled with alloy weld, it's why IMO that area differs on almost every slider, you never get 2 identical and if it was cast you would, I think. The welding itself (if it is indeed welding) is superb, and clearly extremely strong. One day when I get a ruined slider I'm going to cut it open on the joints and see if I can spot anything.

Anyone also spotted this odd thing? or am I barking up the wrong tree.

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2024, 10:43:04 AM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 10:46:18 AM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2024, 12:32:12 PM »
Would love to see an unrestored picture of what you're describing. Polishing would make identification pretty difficult.

Look at the pictures of  the 2 mile CB750 I posted above. Or the pic of the CB550F that is posted above by @Jlh3rd
Insufficient detail to substantitate your claim. I did however look at Fezzler's 550 forks, and they aboslutely are a single casting, sans welds.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186399.msg2221229.html#msg2221229
Please see what you think.

My mistake,  I thought we were talking about side covers
Not  the welding  question.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2024, 12:58:43 PM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2024, 01:19:11 PM »
I’ve got some sliders prepped ready for polishing, so I’ll see if the seams stand out on those, sometimes though it’s not easy to see the different colours of the alloy with a camera whereas it’s easy with the human eye. Take a really close look at where these parts are coming off the main tube, sometimes you can seem to see the pattern of a weld in there.

It’s the part where they fill in the end of the mudguard tubes that really stand out, they look slightly different on each one and you’d expect some consistency if it was moulded.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2024, 07:51:33 PM »
That’s a good point. I don’t know enough about alloy welding to say otherwise. Could the welds be dressed down?

I’m curious as to why there is an inconsistency in the way the ends of these tubes appear, and also the end of the 8mm calliper mount bolt hole appear to be blobs of weld, they should be quite rounded in appearance but when you start to sand these they show lots of recesses and holes that aren’t consistent with moulding. That’s what made me look closer at them, maybe they were the actual injection moulding points and were dressed up after being cut out of the mould there. You see lots of those just left rough on a Honda, you can still see the saw blade marks on some.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2024, 06:16:20 AM »
You must dress down some alloy welds though?

I had a broken fin repaired recently and he made it out of weld and then shaped it to match the rest of the fins. It was extremely well done and after coating I struggle to spot which one was done.

Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2024, 08:00:43 AM »
What's terribly funny is the lack of appreciation for what "casting alloys" constituted 40+ years ago. You will never know with any degree of certainty about the metalurgical composition of these parts. Heck, it could easily have wandered slightly from batch-to-batch, model-to-model, year-to-year.

Obviously every manufacturer changes their processes and materials as time and volumes change. If the early 750K bikes were low production, then more hand time could have been spent and lesser quality alloy used. As demand increased and production numbers flourished, more stable choices for alloys would have been chosen to limit bad production runs and to reduce "handwork" for cosmetic repairs prior to shipping. Nature of manufacturing.

I personally have never seen a vintage alloy engine part (car, truck, plane motor, or motorcycle engine) that was "polished". Never. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have eyeballed Pebble Beach restores of some 8 figure resotration of European top flight doozies during their restoration and post. I've had extensive exposure to DuPont's restoration and collection and there has never been a polished part resembling the work reflected here. Sure, they have been blasted, vapor honed, tumbled, etc to get a decent luster, but never a high polish.

And to my recollection, Vic has never produced a polished restoration either?

Having said all that, I prefer the high polished result. But I am not interested in a Concours restoration. I prefer "better than" original because time and experience provide wisdom and choices for improvement. To each their own. Love them, pamper them, flog them, whatever. But for God's sake, ride the dogs!t out of them and enjoy them!

This and a couple of other comments kinda sums it up for me.  A local friend has a CB350F he's owned since nearly new.  It now has 9000 kms. on it, always stored inside and he restores vintage Hondas.  His Rickman is perfect.  However, I inspected his bike to determine what the original looked like.  I would say the engine covers are not polished, and were likely tumbled or somewhat polished to some level, then clearcoated.  Over time his clearcoat has "patina", and certainly does not look polished.  My direction though is to polish to high shine level.  I think it just sets the bike apart and folks will appreciate what it took to get there.

From my 30 years of automotive experience, all castings have porosity and they do take measures to minimize it.  In high pressure situations, they actually inject a resin into the casting to fill the porosity... well, these don't need that, but the beadblasting has revealed a few pock marks... I would only lightly sand so far.... pock marks can be polished, and stand back 3 feet and you'll barely notice them.  And if you do, you'll think that's OK.  And I'm a bit OCD but accept that absolute perfection is not possible given what we're working with.

I have looked at 550's and 750's of different years.... the processes evolved, they are not necessarily the same as the CB350F.... all good.  Yes, do what lets you sleep at night and it'll  look great regardless.

If you look at a Yamaha FJR rear differential, you will see lines on the surface that appear to be cracks.. several have asked what to do about them.  What they are is shrinkage lines as the casting cools... I can only imagine vintage Honda castings may have looked that way and needed a quick cleanup to get rid of the lines... They are actually above the surface, not below it, so if one was sanding it wouldn't take much at all to make them disappear...... Yamaha chose not to, and it's just a "normal" appearance, they are not rough and I'm guessing powdercoated.  Looks OK to me.....  just a thought.....

Online willbird

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2024, 03:23:13 PM »


I personally have never seen a vintage alloy engine part (car, truck, plane motor, or motorcycle engine) that was "polished". Never. I'm not saying they didn't exist, but I've never seen one. And I have eyeballed Pebble Beach restores of some 8 figure resotration of European top flight doozies during their restoration and post. I've had extensive exposure to DuPont's restoration and collection and there has never been a polished part resembling the work reflected here. Sure, they have been blasted, vapor honed, tumbled, etc to get a decent luster, but never a high polish.

And to my recollection, Vic has never produced a polished restoration either?

Having said all that, I prefer the high polished result. But I am not interested in a Concours restoration. I prefer "better than" original because time and experience provide wisdom and choices for improvement. To each their own. Love them, pamper them, flog them, whatever. But for God's sake, ride the dogs!t out of them and enjoy them!



From my 30 years of automotive experience, all castings have porosity and they do take measures to minimize it.  In high pressure situations, they actually inject a resin into the casting to fill the porosity... well, these don't need that, but the beadblasting has revealed a few pock marks... I would only lightly sand so far.... pock marks can be polished, and stand back 3 feet and you'll barely notice them.  And if you do, you'll think that's OK.  And I'm a bit OCD but accept that absolute perfection is not possible given what we're working with.




For about 5 years I worked for a company that did pre machining on GM I4 and I5 heads and blocks. The pre machining was what they called "hyper cubing" and the intent was to allow a full leak test of high and low pressure oil and other areas right adjacent to the foundry location where the lost foam casting process parts were made.

Gross leakers were sorted out and GM inspected those pretty quick, some degree of leak went through the wall to be "impreg" with resin, then re tested, if they again leaked they got a second impreg, the goal was to eliminate that eventually and just do one impreg and retest, scrap if they failed.From time to time they would have some machining feature that exposed a leak on final machining so they would have us do something like add that one M6x1.0 drilled and tapped hope for a time to expose that leak and find a foundry fix to cure the issue.

The tech side of that stuff was all pretty interesting :-).

Bill

Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2024, 09:01:06 AM »
I might have been misunderstood when talking  about these pieces being Polished from the factory.

To me the word polish is not just to a mirror finish level.there are different levels of polishing. A mirror finish being an RA00 is like a mirror.

I worked at the Boeing company and we would "poliish" stainless a d aluminium. To different levels and compare them to a standard color chip. I tried to find a picture of the different color chips to no avail. We never polished to a RA 00 as it is to hard to take care of and touch up when in service.

So when I see that 2 mile 750 I posted pics of above and my unrestored bikes.  This is what they looked like when new.

So we can call the less than mirror finish "brushed" with a very fine grit but still bright and shiny and has a degree of reflection.

In my restorations I try to mimic the original look by polishing with a compound with grit in it.

Another Pic below of the 2 mile 750
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 09:06:10 AM by Ozzybud »
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Offline Floshenbarnical

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2024, 11:09:49 AM »
I stripped all my covers and polished them with the 3-stage kit from Caswell with their buffing wheels on a corded high-speed drill. They looked like mirrors. Then they sat for 6 months and got a little cloudy so I brightened them up with a rag and Autosol and then rebuffed with a rag and the cream polish from the 3-stage kit. I didn’t know waxing them to protect them afterward was an option. I feel like the heat from the engine would make the wax all drop off? I guess idk how it works
"All things change in a dynamic environment. Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."

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Offline Ozzybud

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2024, 11:21:08 AM »
I never owned a “from new 1970” Honda in the early ‘70s so I can’t attest or reject what they looked like new. What I will say is, regardless of what a claim is (restored, unrestored, etc) and regardless of actual mileage, you have no evidence of what has actually occurred in the life of a vehicle not in your own care from “new”.

And the definition of “restored, original, and unrestored” are very subjective to 95%+ of folks. So take any and every claim with a massive grain of salt.

Whatever that bike’s history (pictured) it’s very lovely.

Here Is a dealer brochure from 1976.

This is what they looked like new.

Look at the fork tubes,valve cover and Dymo cover. Beautiful!
1976 Z50A YELLOW
1970 CT70 BLUE
1971 CT70H ORANGE
1972 CT70H GREEN
1973 CL200 BLUE
1973 CB350F RED
1975 CB360T RED
1975 CB400F BLUE
1975 CB550 ORANGE
1976 CB750F RED

Online Don R

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2024, 11:28:22 AM »
 One thing is for sure, if you make them too shiny to suit your delicate sensitivities, it's extremely easy to dull them up a little! 
No matter how many times you paint over a shadow, it's still there.
 CEO at the no kill motorcycle shop.
 You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Offline Rayzerman

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Re: Polished Aluminum - what to use for care and feeding??
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2024, 01:36:02 PM »
Since I have options, I could use toothpaste as it has a grit in it... at least to see what it would look like, and it would give a texture for clearcoat to stick to (provided I rinsed well first).