Topic: 1965 Honda CB77 305 Super Hawk

[britman]

Starting a new thread on this jewel.  I traded my last CB750K project for this bike to complete my Honda 305 trio since I have the CL77 Scrambler and CA77 Dream already in hand in my small herd. I am hitting the point where I am slowing down due to age and a few contributing health issues.  I want to get my own bikes in order and have spent some time recently on my personal  750K and others with oil changes, tire updates, and just general maintenance which I truly enjoyed.

This bike looks much nicer in the initial shots than it really is.  It does run decent but the compression numbers on both jugs show it has a lot of miles.   The wiring is the biggest hodge-podge of connections and colors I have ever seen.  The original harness has more slices than a loaf of cheap bread. I figured out why the neutral light was not working, they tend not to light up when the switch is completely missing. The kick side engine cover was bugger welded to fix a giant crack and a replacement was quite expensive due to the rarity, (this is the only Honda I have ever seen that kick starts forward.)  Every cable on the bike will need replacing.  I found some extra parts from a another former Hawk owner fairly close and brought home everything he had, fenders, extra speedometers, front forks, all at a get it out of the garage price.

There are some good points to this ugly duckling, it has a clear title, it is numbers matching, the chrome on the wheels is almost perfect, and it is fairly complete to include the mufflers which have a few dents but are solid. I have decided the aftermarket chrome fenders will be gone and I am going to take it back to stock form with either a Honda Planet Blue or red lay out with the Cloud Silver trim paint scheme.  I have contacted a good friend who is a 305 guru and even though he has closed his business, has consented to do one more motor rebuild for me for old time sake and a good healthy check.  He has done three prior motors and his work is impeccable, since this one is a keeper for me I am biting the bullet and going for it.  I can't explain this obsession with the 305 series, but the Super Hawk is the rarest of all, Elvis rode one in the movie "Roust About", and they were the machines to have back in 1967 when I graduated from High School.  I have started the tear down. purchased  the plastic bins for parts, baggies and markers for labeling, so let the fun begin.  This one is going to take quite awhile with a lot of patience, and hefty draw on the check book, but it is my quest, or senility, or a combination of the two.....

[RAFster122s]

Congrats on the find... 305 engine parts readily available or hard to find? Are there work around for parts that are NLA?

Looks like a solid project. Are you going to hand build a new harness or find a replacement or buy a new replacement? Planet Blue would look good on this bike and not the usual color seen giving everyone's prevalent red bike to try to get more $.
What are the difficult areas of this project?


Best of luck with the project and rebuild!

[denward17]

Good Luck Britman, will be following along.

Are these bikes more expensive to rebuild than a 750?

[HondaMan]

Wow, does that picture bring back memories of my SuperHawk! Mine was the rare 1968 version, Honda didn't make many before converting that line to the new CB350 Twin in 1968. It was about 3 months late in coming out, so they kept making the SuperHawk, but with bigger intake valves during the last 14 months of builds. Side-by-side, mine could outrun a 1966 version. I ended up going 337cc with it, made a fine touring bike then!

The engine was SO easy to pull on those...and the rear brake with cable-to-footpeg really sucked...

[carnivorous chicken]

Great score, and I'm jealous. I had a CB77 project in the queue but had to sell it and a couple others when I moved to Mexico. Didn't do much but rebuild the carbs on it.

Admitting my ignorance here, but the CA77 is a 305 and was essentially the same engine, wasn't it? Although it had one carb as opposed to the two, right? Did it have a forward kick too? I rode a CA a few times but it was years ago and I can't remember...

[RAFster122s]

The CA95 and CA160 both had single carb lower compression motors. The CA77 was a single carb built don't know if they dropped compression on it, I would imagine they did with the single carb.

Did some digging on interwebs and found that cb77 has 10:1 compression ratio according to one source and 9.5:1 by another while CA77 has 8.2:1 compression ratio with its single carb... totally different motor design.

Cb92 was tubular chassis racer of 250cc capacity while CB95 was even rarer and a twin carb 154cc motor design modifying head design of CA95 motor. Likely heavily borrowing from CB92.

[britman]

Questions and answers to best of my limited ability.....

RATster122- I have already picked up a used primary and secondary harness from a 66 Hawk. Of course the outside sheath is hard and cracked, but it is complete and not cut up.  I have tried a couple of the Taiwan sets in the past and was not all that pleased.  Difficult areas-brakes are not all that great on a good day, parts can be an issue, "ie" the kicker side motor cover was $250 bucks with a discount.....

dnward17-Yes I believe the CB77 will be more expensive than doing a CB750k.  750 parts are still pretty much out there, used and new from numerous vendors.  The CB77 is the oddball in the 305 series but parts for the CA 77 Dream I restored was a royal pain also.  No one makes brake shoes for the Dream anymore as well as sprockets or the odd size primary chain.  I actually had to send the rear brake shoes to a small company in Fla. to have them relined.....

Hondaman-I agree on the rear brake/foot peg attachment, bad design, but the brakes on the whole 305 series make you a true believer in defensive driving.  The CB motor is truly a piece of cake to drop and the CL77 Scrambler is a true PITA.  I have marred every freshly painted frame on CL motor installs I have ever done. 

c. chicken-Nope the CA Dream is a rear kicker, the CB is only front kicker in the Honda line I know of, or correct me if am wrong in any brand other than some scooters......

Thanks for the interest guys, I will throw up some shots as I move along at my old man pace....

 
 

[jgger]

I believe the  biggest difference in the CB, CL, and CA engines was the crankshaft. The CB & CL had a 180° crank and two sets of points, while the CA had a 360 ° crank and one set of points. I think the Super Hawk had the highest compression of all 3 bikes.

[Stev-o]

Elvis rode one in the movie "Roust About"...

And Ann is a legend!

[HondaMan]

I believe the  biggest difference in the CB, CL, and CA engines was the crankshaft. The CB & CL had a 180° crank and two sets of points, while the CA had a 360 ° crank and one set of points. I think the Super Hawk had the highest compression of all 3 bikes.

Spot on!

[bert96]

I'm the owner of a cb77 too and hardest part to find was the turn signals switch !

I bought a lot bolts,nuts and other things from Phil Denton engineering. All in stainless steel. Great Guy!

Bert

[britman]

On the floor in about 45 minutes.  I knew I was 76 years of age when I picked it up off the lift. Now I know why I have never attempted to pull a 750K motor.  As Mr. Clint Eastwood so eloquently stated in the the Dirty Harry movie, "A man has to know his limitations"................

[willbird]

On the floor in about 45 minutes.  I knew I was 76 years of age when I picked it up off the lift. Now I know why I have never attempted to pull a 750K motor.  As Mr. Clint Eastwood so eloquently stated in the the Dirty Harry movie, "A man has to know his limitations"................

As a 19 year old young man I loaded a bare small block chevy block into the passenger side of my car which had no front passenger seat, drove to the car wash, got it out, power washed, and put it back in the car and took it home. Google says 150lbs. Not going to try that at 60 even though I get around great and can do anything that really makes sense still :-).

[newday777]

On the floor in about 45 minutes.  I knew I was 76 years of age when I picked it up off the lift. Now I know why I have never attempted to pull a 750K motor.  As Mr. Clint Eastwood so eloquently stated in the the Dirty Harry movie, "A man has to know his limitations"................

I bought a Hoya patient lift last year for $50 for pulling and moving around engines.  With 2 ruptured discs I know my limitations....

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

It has to be one of the more awkward 150 lb things to lift, too.

[Kevin D]

The kick side engine cover was bugger welded to fix a giant crack and a replacement was quite expensive due to the rarity, (this is the only Honda I have ever seen that kick starts forward.)

The best protection for your welded cover is a good working electric starter.

Way back, I could never keep those covers in stock, whatever covers showed up in the Honda parts shipment disappeared in a hurry.

[britman]

Only issue so far, one broken tab where the chain guard mounts.  Rear brake drum looks great, no grooves and even some shoe life left.  Of course every other bolt is a different size, thread, or pitch.  Front comes off tomorrow then the cleaning starts in prep for primer and paint.......

[denward17]

Good start.

BTW, What's the total weight of that bike?

[HondaMan]

Only issue so far, one broken tab where the chain guard mounts.  Rear brake drum looks great, no grooves and even some shoe life left.  Of course every other bolt is a different size, thread, or pitch.  Front comes off tomorrow then the cleaning starts in prep for primer and paint.......

Is the broken chain guard support the one at the rear wheel? That was almost 100% of the pre-1967 SuperHawks. Then it got thicker, and a stamped-ridge groove was applied to make it last longer.

Mine ended up removed altogether because of the number of times the gearing would get changed for riding to get to the track(s), then pulling the rear wheel to change up some teeth for the race, then back again for the trip home...ah, the 'run-whatcha-brung' circuits!

[britman]

[/quote]

Is the broken chain guard support the one at the rear wheel? That was almost 100% of the pre-1967 SuperHawks. Then it got thicker, and a stamped-ridge groove was applied to make it last longer.

Mine ended up removed altogether because of the number of times the gearing would get changed for riding to get to the track(s), then pulling the rear wheel to change up some teeth for the race, then back again for the trip home...ah, the 'run-whatcha-brung' circuits!
[/quote]


Mine is the mount on the outside front of the swing arm.  I think I can fab a tab to replace it.  I should be able to drill and tap a hole for small bracket.  I am looking forward to pulling the front end.  Never had a lot of experience with external springs and upon checking fork seal prices, a little more expensive for the Hawk, like every thing appears to be......

[HondaMan]

They are a little mysterious, but not complex.

[britman]

They are a little mysterious, but not complex.

Well put Mark.  I have decided to go with the VIN matching early Type I forks.  Seal located in the screw on chrome cup, internal springs, enough snap rings and brass fittings to to really make you appreciate your cell phone and You Tube videos.  I think I have finished tear down.......

[HondaMan]

Ah, the memories!
There was one rider who cut that curved 'backbone' section out and rewelded it in backwards to make a mount for a Rootes supercharger that he installed. I think he used an old Harley Linkert carb and fabbed up a 'wye' to feed supercharged input to the 2 carbs. That crazy 'Hawk would fly past 100 MPH, but sounded like a semi truck coming at you from the supercharger's intake roar. I thought it was reminiscent of the sound of the 1957 T-Birds that had the superchargers on them, too. When I was a kid in California they were in my neighborhood, 2 of them. It's a sound you won't soon forget!

He did say something like, "The chassis could use some work to ride it that fast", though... 

[britman]

Long drive yesterday, but the motor was dropped to be completely rebuilt.  The builder dapples in vintage racing and has a nice collection of 305's and 160 Honda's for the street and track days.  He closed his business last year because of increasing paperwork, state regulations, and taxes, but I was able to talk him into one more for old time sake. Now it is my turn, get off my arse and start making the rest of the bike clean and shinny.......

[BenelliSEI]

Sounds like this one is a “keeper”!