Author Topic: Ignition coil failure?  (Read 969 times)

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Offline Tim2005

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Ignition coil failure?
« on: April 13, 2025, 03:36:33 PM »
Out for a 150 mile run on my 750 today to see some racing and the last 20 miles home it was running very rough suddenly and limping on a couple of cylinders, with the others trying to come in at times. Exhausts for 1 and 4 were definitely much cooler than 2 & 3s but not cold. A quick look at home and I could see no spark on 1 & 4 plugs, no sparking at the points (I checked that as I suspected a condensor had failed), points opening/gapped/clean nice, a good 12v at the points, and 12v at the coil.  I then had to rush out to a family do.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to look into it tomorrow after work. Can it be anything other than a coil has failed? I've never had that happen before. The coils are actually CB900F ones & have been on there 20 years or maybe even 30. 

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2025, 05:26:50 PM »
Sounds like a condensor to me.  I had the exact thing happen on a long trip around lake Michigan.  Cleaning/re-setting the points milked another couple hundred miles, then it did it again and the second time the points would only stay working for shorter and shorter amounts of time.  Soon as I got a new condensor it was fine...probably gonna need new points too.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2025, 05:48:20 PM »
If you need condensers and points its cheaper to buy the complete plate from South Sound Honda
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline newday777

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2025, 05:59:33 PM »
Hopefully you still have an old points plate assembly with a good TEC condenser to swap out.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline scottly

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2025, 07:20:40 PM »
points opening/gapped/clean nice, a good 12v at the points, and 12v at the coil.
If you have 12V at the points, then the primary side of the coil should be good. Does the voltage at the points go to zero when the points are closed?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2025, 07:51:23 PM »
Your symptoms describe exactly what my last 2 pair of Daiichi-branded condensors did. I could only ride 5 miles at the end before they acted up again.
Then I just disconnected them (because the Transistor Ignition doesn't require them be connected). MUCH better. ;)
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline M 750K6

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2025, 12:56:07 AM »
I just had the same, but on 2/3. Starting for a ride after washing the bike the day before, it was firing only on 1 and 4. I put my timing bulb on points 2/3 and no light when the points separated. Coil power feed wires and connectors looked fine. Then the following day the coil checked out OK, the points were still nice and clean.

I had washed the bike using a garden hose, but no power washer. There were rubber sleeves / boots where the HT leads exit the coil. They had perished and split. I suspect water had got into the coil. A new coil has worked fine for the last 150 miles.

My replacement coil was a pattern part from David Silver. It didn't fit the frame bracket and had two male bullets on the 12V feed. So, the job took longer than it should have.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2025, 07:46:14 AM »
+1...condenser starting to fail. I've never had a Honda coil fail
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2025, 03:27:01 PM »
Well, it's odd, but it's fixed (I think). I swapped the condensor out first as it is easiest to do. No different. Swapped the coil next. Still no different. Scratched head a lot. There was 12v at the points and coil, but opening the points made no difference to the coil voltage reading (whereas on cylinder 2&3 coil it did). I disconnected the wire from the points and tried quickly grounding it, got sparks at that wire but there was no spark at the plugs. I traced down to where there's a bullet connector between coil & points, cleaned that up and after quite a few attempts at grounding the points wire then I started getting a spark, put everything back together and it runs aok.  Presumably there was enough resistance in that connection to let 12v through but not enough getting through current to trigger the coil. It seems a bit weird though as the points wire seemed to spark decently when grounded, and before it finally did wake up it took a lot of attempts at grounding it.

There is one other connection in that wiring but it is right behind the swingarm pivot. I'd like to have a look it though. I may well just make up a fresh set of wiring and pull it through instead, as I'm not very confident it is fixed properly now.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2025, 07:07:16 PM »
Check the female bullet connectors for [tiny] cracks along the length of them, inside their jacket.
There was also, for a brief time, some points plates sold with 3.0mm male plugs on them instead of the correct 3.5mm diameter plugs. Every now and then I see one of these, making loose connection(s) between points and coils.

(Note: corrected the "/" to "." today. I hate this keyboard, it's so weird...)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2025, 06:49:36 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2025, 12:36:05 PM »
Yes I thin I've had one of those with the undersize connectors, definitely one to watch out for. I'm going to put fresh wiring in from points to coils. For the lower wiring part with the cotton braid, in my stuff I have found a decent but probably rather old Honda part or a brand new Daichi part. Considering reputations for quality, I think I'll fit the 20-30-40 year old Honda wires

Offline bryanj

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2025, 01:01:02 PM »
Wires are fine, points are usable with effort, condensers seem to fail.
Having said that the only condensers i have had fail were replacement aftermarket ones
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline leovich

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2025, 01:25:40 PM »
If you need condensers and points its cheaper to buy the complete plate from South Sound Honda
They don’t have complete plate sash anymore, just tried to bought one last week and had a refund

Offline newday777

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2025, 03:32:46 PM »
If you need condensers and points its cheaper to buy the complete plate from South Sound Honda
They don’t have complete plate sash anymore, just tried to bought one last week and had a refund
That is a bummer to hear
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline PeWe

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Re: Ignition coil failure?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2025, 10:57:49 PM »
Sure that the fork connectors for condenser and/or blue, yellow to coils are not in contact with ground?
Very easy to happen when tighten.

There are also isolating fiber washers to be placed correctly.
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