Topic: Battery, Regulator, and other questions

[TheHulk]

My Cb550 seems to go through a battery every year. I've swapped all my lights to LED, and I keep the bike on a trickle charger anytime I know I won't be riding for several days in a row. I'll admit I'm not buying the fanciest batteries, but they certainly aren't bottom of the barrel. I did install a new Regulator Rectifier several years ago from 4 into 1. Presumably Chinese made.

I've read that one of the reasons the Reg/Recs fail is because they overheat, which is ironically just a symptom of their design. A "MOSFET" Reg/Rec apparently increases the shelf life of the unit because it switches more frequently and won't get as hot.

My batteries have all been Factory Charged AGM's of various brands. I'm considering shelling out some extra dough for a Yuasa GYZ series battery for some increased CCA's for a bulletproof start, something which I don't always have.


Here's a few general questions I have for the guru's:

1. Is it unhealthy for the battery to be kept on the trickle charger often?
2. Does anyone have experience with a Mosfet Regulator?
3. Are there really any quality differences in Regulators on the market? What do you use?
4. Is there a maximum of CCA's that the CB550's starter can handle? Or can I max it out? I'm a fan of overbuilt and overkill.

Thanks all!

[scottly]

1. Some types of "trickle chargers" can do more damage than good.
2. Where did you read that? Decent reg/rects like our bike use rarely fail.
3. Yes! 4 into 1 has a bad rep for some parts. You should test the charging system voltage at various revs to make sure the reg is doing it's job.
4.No, the battery can only supply what the starter draws.

[willbird]

My Cb550 seems to go through a battery every year. I've swapped all my lights to LED, and I keep the bike on a trickle charger anytime I know I won't be riding for several days in a row. I'll admit I'm not buying the fanciest batteries, but they certainly aren't bottom of the barrel. I did install a new Regulator Rectifier several years ago from 4 into 1. Presumably Chinese made.

I've read that one of the reasons the Reg/Recs fail is because they overheat, which is ironically just a symptom of their design. A "MOSFET" Reg/Rec apparently increases the shelf life of the unit because it switches more frequently and won't get as hot.

My batteries have all been Factory Charged AGM's of various brands. I'm considering shelling out some extra dough for a Yuasa GYZ series battery for some increased CCA's for a bulletproof start, something which I don't always have.


Here's a few general questions I have for the guru's:

1. Is it unhealthy for the battery to be kept on the trickle charger often?
2. Does anyone have experience with a Mosfet Regulator?
3. Are there really any quality differences in Regulators on the market? What do you use?
4. Is there a maximum of CCA's that the CB550's starter can handle? Or can I max it out? I'm a fan of overbuilt and overkill.

Thanks all!

IMHO a NOCO is a step up.

[TheHulk]

1. Some types of "trickle chargers" can do more damage than good.

I have a Battery Tender brand charger. What would you consider good vs bad? Is it just bad for the battery overall?

[TheHulk]

Thanks all!
[/quote]

IMHO a NOCO is a step up.
[/quote]

What's a NOCO?

[willbird]

Thanks all!

IMHO a NOCO is a step up.
[/quote]

What's a NOCO?
[/quote]

Sorry, was hurried :-).NOCO is a brand name of battery tender, avail at Walmart as well as other places. They come in a variety of sizes, the ones I have you can change the type of battery, different models have different options there maybe.

Bill

[TheHulk]

Sorry, was hurried :-).NOCO is a brand name of battery tender, avail at Walmart as well as other places. They come in a variety of sizes, the ones I have you can change the type of battery, different models have different options there maybe.

Ah thanks!

[willbird]

Sorry, was hurried :-).NOCO is a brand name of battery tender, avail at Walmart as well as other places. They come in a variety of sizes, the ones I have you can change the type of battery, different models have different options there maybe.

Ah thanks!

I'm sure "good, better, and best" brands will vary with geography :-).

[Don R]

 1 I maintain my batteries two or three times during winter, for a week or so at a time.
 2 I've used a mosfet R/R on my GS1100, it is made for a permanent magnet type alternator
 3 I'm sure the cheapest aren't as good as more expensive ones but I always wonder too.
 4 Too small a battery or weak cables can be hard on a starter, with a big battery, it will only use what it needs.

[M 750K6]

Do you mean a 'trickle charger', or a battery tender. Some trickle chargers will continue to supply a current when the battery does require it, damaging the battery.

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting. By drawing less with LEDs, your rectifier has to drop more of the charging output, to avoid frying your battery. This creates more heat in a standard regulator.

[scottly]

Battery tenders hold the battery voltage to a "float" level, where the battery is neither charging or discharging, around 13.2-13.6 V. Occasionally, lead acid batteries need to have an "equalizing" charge of 14.4-14.6 V, but the battery tender thinks the battery is charged so won't switch to the full charge voltage. One way to trick the charger is to put a load on the battery like the headlight and run the battery down a bit.
Batteries seem to last longer when cycled, rather than sitting idle, with or without a float charger. Even a cheap lead acid battery lasted for over 3 years, and may have gone longer if I had used it more often?

[scottly]

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting.

This is not true of the excited field alternators on our bikes.

[Stev-o]

Do you mean a 'trickle charger', or a battery tender. Some trickle chargers will continue to supply a current when the battery does require it, damaging the battery.

"Trickle charger" seems to be an old school term for a battery charger that supplies a low amperage charge to the battery.

Most are now known as "maintainers", will charge battery only as needed.

I have a Battery Tender Jr brand, I think it is a very good quality device, I dont buy cheap battery chargers at Harbor freight, I've heard a few nightmare stories about them.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0123-Junior-Charger/dp/B000CITK8S

[dave500]

Do you mean a 'trickle charger', or a battery tender. Some trickle chargers will continue to supply a current when the battery does require it, damaging the battery.

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting. By drawing less with LEDs, your rectifier has to drop more of the charging output, to avoid frying your battery. This creates more heat in a standard regulator.

these regs aint like those used on permanant magnet field alternators,they dont shed excess to ground,the electromagnetic field is regulated not the voltage output per say,and the rectifier alters ac to dc.

[TheHulk]

Do you mean a 'trickle charger', or a battery tender. Some trickle chargers will continue to supply a current when the battery does require it, damaging the battery.

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting. By drawing less with LEDs, your rectifier has to drop more of the charging output, to avoid frying your battery. This creates more heat in a standard regulator.

This makes sense! Certainly never considered this.

I believe I am using a "Battery Tender". But, maybe I should do more research.

[TheHulk]

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting.

This is not true of the excited field alternators on our bikes.

Ah!

[HondaMan]

The big "secret" of the battery used on the CB500/550 [moderately weak] system is: an AGM type, today, works best with the existing electrical system, as they will hold charge well in the range of 12.2-15.0 volts. The 500/550 tends to charge on the low end of the spectrum as lead-acid batteries go, which is when things like LED headlights will help by reducing the bike's demands, letting the battery have a larger share while riding in slow traffic (i.e. less than 45 MPH, typically).

The "bigger" secret of batteries for these bikes: find the ones with virgin lead inside. This includes 0% of the ones made in China and most of Malaysia. The ones from Japan are currently on the top of my list, with YUASA being the top of that hill in quality. The YUASA battery in the bike shown on Page One of my new book has a (now extinct since Covid) DieHard AGM, made with virgin lead, now going into its 4th year and working fine.

I use YUASA AGM batteries in my own machines.

[dave500]

battery thread,motobatt last years and years,so long as the bike has an up to scratch charging system.

[M 750K6]

Running LED lights reduces your draw, making the regulator work harder. The bike's alternator produces the same output regardless of your lighting.

This is not true of the excited field alternators on our bikes.

Learnt something new. 👍

Is the regulator redundant?

[bryanj]

No the regulator is needed or the battery overcharges, the original mecanical one have only 3 settings
1 full charge---full battery voltage to field coil

2 restricted charge, about half--- voltage to field via resistor

3 no charge --- zero volts to field.

Years ago a uk member designed a self build elactronic unit that gave a variable field voltage, i used to have the diagram but lost it on a computer crash

[dave500]

I use a bosch automotive type electronic regulator,so easy and stable.

[bryanj]

I have heard of that Dave, what part number is it or what is it off?

[MauiK3]

I have used Battery Tender for years, always top notch. They can be put on a timer to run several hours a day for a long storage term, keeps the battery on top.

[dave500]

I have heard of that Dave, what part number is it or what is it off?

Gday Brian,you can use RE57 or RE55,were on older euro cars etc and were also used here swapping out old mechanial regs on early Holden bosch alternators,Ive just taken and posted better photos of these units,Ive used those old ones for too long they wernt real clear,that exposed resistor you can snip that wire and increases output slightly if required,easy to solder back if you want,Ive never tried it,they polish up neat aswell!

[Deltarider]

Every beginning of the season I 'test' the battery to see if is still good enough. I therefore connect an analogue voltmeter and watch its dial swing under the load of starting. Although the test result was satisfactorily - the dial did not drop lower than 10V - I decided to take no chances, so I filled the new Yuasa YB12A-A that had already been waiting on the shelf for two years. After all, one cannot complain when your battery has totalled 8 years of reliable service, BTW the same lifetime its predecesor had back then, which was a Yuasa 12N-12A-4A. With the latter I had - for the sake of research - gone to its very, very end, which adventure I have described in: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164389.msg1914136.html#msg1914136
I have always done at least 7 years with these conventional Yuasa's and I can say, it's a good brand. I have considered maintenance free batteries (AGM not Gel), but I have not seen any to my liking yet. The advantage of the conventional Yuasa is that it is a direct fit and it is impossible to make an error in connecting. I've seen aftermarket maintenance free batteries, but they were generic and some needed even an adaptor with the risk of shorting to the frame. Others were not as fool proof as the conventional, meaning: risk of reversed polarity destructing your rectifier. Also... I like control: a conventional battery does not start its lifetime, unless you have filled it. A maintenance free and prefilled(!) battery can have been on the shelf for... how long?
Maintenance of the oldstyle Yuasa is little: yes, later on in its life a few times to top up and in winter I take care not to let the voltage drop towards 12,4V. That's all. The YB12A-A offers some more CCA than the old 12N-12A-4A. Not that you need that. If any SOHC Four does not start within 7 seconds, there's something wrong that needs to be adressed. I suspected the YB12A-A would have thinner plates, possibly reducing its lifespan. The YB12A-A proved as good as its predecessor if not better.
I've had several multistage chargers. The one supermarket Lidl sells, I didn't like: with 14,5V it charged a fraction to high to the battery's liking. The best charger by far is the Optimate I have now. It offers a brilliant test program.
Rectifier and regulator are still the same bike got at the assembly line in 1976. Never needed to adjust the regulator. I see no need to change these parts for any aftermarket products. Usually these OEM parts outlive your bike. The 'problem' of any deficiency in the CB500/550 charging is not known in Europe. I run the 60/55 Watts H4 my bike came with, 3 Ohm coils in combination with a homebuilt transistor ignition and every ride I return in my garage with a better charged battery than I departed with.