Topic: battery refuses to die

[Deltarider]

Recently I bought a new Yuasa batterie. Haven't had to fill it yet because the old battery is still functional.
That old one was the cheapest possible, a Saito 12N-12A-4A-1 that I ordered at Louis. I choose that one because it had a good test in a German motormagazine. I bought and installed it in september 2008. Now it's nearing it's end. That's 8¹/₂ year! Not bad for a cheapy, in fact it beat a Yuasa.
This is how I treat my batteries: after filling them with acid, I give them a nights rest. Then I connect an intelligent 1A charger till the diode lights tell me, it's fully charged. Then it goes in the bike. Under no circumstance do I have a trickle charger connected; I don't trust them. In winter I monitor say every month - 6 weeks and when voltage is down to 12,4 V, I connect the intelligent charger for a refresh charge. Usually it takes less than 24 hours for the complete charging cycle including desulfatisation.

[drumstyx]

Is it an AGM? I had an AGM in a Vulcan 900 that, while I could tell it wasn't a new battery, it wouldn't die. IIRC it was OEM (or near OEM) on an '06, and I sold the bike, still kicking, with a spare battery just last year. I've only had conventional batteries actually crap out on me in my ~5 years of riding.

[grcamna2]

I just purchased a tiny little 'cheap china' AGM Adventure Power brand battery equivalent to a YB3L-B,a real small one for a dual sport 12vt. motorcycle i have.I only paid $25 shipped to me and it will lose .4 volt of charge after sitting 4 months.I plan on installing it in a week for the beginning of Riding season.I don't want to try to make it die  but was thinking if I can keep it running for as long as possible as long as it's 'resting voltage' doesn't go below 12.6vts. after sitting 4) months.

[Deltarider]

Is it an AGM?

No, it's a conventional lead acid battery that back then costed me € 29,95. I decided to do a test with what I consider the best treatment for a battery. Actually I was surprised it lives this long. But I must admit that last year already I had to ad destilled water a couple of times and at electric starts voltage would drop to near 9V which means it's practically finished. I was just curious how far it would go, so yesterday I did my first 'spring' ride and now, 24 hours later, voltage reads 12,6 V. This week I will replace it however. My test has completed. The lesson is: if you treat them nice, they go a looong way.

[drumstyx]

Holy cow where do you get these cheap batteries? The cheapest I've ever bought a battery was the spare AGM I bought for that Vulcan and it was $50 or $60 CAD when the dollar was at par. Even conventional batteries cost a fortune these days. I expect ~$80-110 these days for anything, and AGMs end up being nearly the same price.

[MikeSimon]

Canada may be more expensive, but here in the U.S. - (Ohio) battery prices are decent. Wet lead-acid can be had for $35.-, and AGMs, depending on the size go for around $50-$75.
I buy wet batteries at my local battery dealer and AGMs on-line. Battery Mart has sales deals going on all the time

[drumstyx]

Canada may be more expensive, but here in the U.S. - (Ohio) battery prices are decent. Wet lead-acid can be had for $35.-, and AGMs, depending on the size go for around $50-$75.
I buy wet batteries at my local battery dealer and AGMs on-line. Battery Mart has sales deals going on all the time

So AGM I guess is around even after the exchange, but conventional batteries are all but gone these days. At most you'd save 10 or 20 dollars. At least where I look. I don't mind spending the $100 on an AGM. I take care of them and they last a *long* time.

[Deltarider]

I must say this cheap one lasted exceptionable long. After reading that battery test in that German motorcycle magazine I thought: well, it's been tested, let's give it a try. Before that I usually had Yuasa's that lasted 6-7 years (which means last year kick only). I think the charger (multiphase) played a role as it runs a desulfatisation cycle in its program. Basically I think the secret is not to let your battery rest at a voltage below 12,4 V for too long. But I just don't like the idea of having the battery connected constantly.

[PeWe]

You need one more bike for the extra battery!

[MikeSimon]

Conventional batteries are not gone. They are still available plenty. For some applications (I have one of those bikes) they are the only choice. Unfortunately.

[drumstyx]

"3 x CBX"

Good god man, hell of a collection!

[Don R]

 I think it was Hondaman that said the old batteries had more pure lead while the newer ones and Chinese ones have recycled lead which of course, has tin, antimony and other alloys and doesn't last as long.

[przjohn]

I must say this cheap one lasted exceptionable long. After reading that battery test in that German motorcycle magazine I thought: well, it's been tested, let's give it a try. Before that I usually had Yuasa's that lasted 6-7 years (which means last year kick only). I think the charger (multiphase) played a role as it runs a desulfatisation cycle in its program. Basically I think the secret is not to let your battery rest at a voltage below 12,4 V for too long. But I just don't like the idea of having the battery connected constantly.

You realize you have just jinxed all your future batteries, 

But seriously, I think your thorough maintenance program is the trick. I've had more batteries than I can count ruined by Battery Tenders because I keep them on too long and ignore them. I've been using Lithiums now and have so far had good luck as they are basically maintenance free and can sit all Winter without a worry, they are alot more pricey though.

[Old Moe Toe]

Bought my Harley new in Feb 08. Still has the original battery. Bought a 1 amp tender about a year later and swap the tender between 5-6 bikes every few days.
Tender just died after being continuously on for 7 years. Well worth the 60 odd bucks it cost. Just bought another tender of 1.1 amp, it has a 5 year warranty.

[strynboen]

i use to get 4-5 years of my china batteries. have then in doors vhole winter....just give then a few auers load,, evry spring..before mounting them back on my bikes
my teori is tender loading veares the batteries up..they better get one load up..and stay the Winter and rest..and give them a load up, auer or 2 before use..

is thange to Sealed types..but still acid pb batteries..biltema has some  nice low cost ones..

[PeWe]

Repeated service interval with a good charger can be one reason. My batteries back in the 80's did not get any extra charging, only when drained with a horrible charger, correct voltage? maybe.... but DC? not so much!

I believe that my batteries I have now will live longer since I have a good modern charger that will charge in motorcycle batt mode and not too high current.  Cheap GEL batteries. Good famous brands cost double.

[Deltarider]

Another thing for battery care during hibernation. When it's well charged, store it cool or even cold. Remember it's a chemical process inside your battery and low temperatures slow that down. Although my battery lived long, I must admit I didn't ride that much those years. Maybe that was a factor too.

[Deltarider]

I bet you guys are dying to know how my battery is. Well, it's dead now. Today I went for a ride to the coast to check the rising of the sea level for myself. Kickstarted no problem. At the gasstation much to my surprise it even started electrically. Walked along the beach and returned to the bike. Kickstarted it and then went for some fried fish, returned to the bike, no idiot lights and I knew instantly it now was finally over and out. Not even idiot lights meant there was not even a chance to kick it. Fifteen meters back was a garage and two parked bikes indicated employees were bikers. They had a big battery on a servicecart, rode it out to the sidewalk, connected the cables and bike started immediately. Just as a precaution I turned the idle adjustment screw for a somewhat higher idle, so I'd be safe at traffic lights. Can't say my ride back was careless. I knew I would not have a chance to kickstart if the engine stopped. Made it home. Battery lived from september 2008 till today. I decided to see how far I could stretch it for educational reasons ofcourse. First thing I did when I was home was to fill the new still dry Yuasa that I purchased two months ago. It will be treated the same as the cheap Saito that died today. Every 5-6 weeks that I will not ride and when voltage has dropped to 12,4 V, connect to 3-stage charger and for the rest, leave it alone (no trickle charging).

[flybox1]

I bet you guys are dying to know how my battery is. Well, it's dead now. Today I went for a ride to the coast. Kickstarted no problem. At the gasstation much to my surprise it even started electrically. Walked along the beach and returned to the bike. Kickstarted it and then went for some fried fish, returned to the bike, no idiot lights and I knew it now was finally over and out. There was not even a chance to kick it. Fifteen meters back was a garage and two parked bikes indicated employees were bikers. They had a big battery on a servicecart, rode it out to the sidewalk, connected the cables and bike started immediately. Just as a precaution I turned the idle adjustment screw for a somewhat higher idle, so I'd be safe at traffic lights. Can't say my ride back was careless. I knew I would not have a chance to kickstart if the engine stopped. Made it home. Battery lived from september 2008 till today. I decided to see how far I could stretch it for educational reasons ofcourse. First thing I did when I was home was to fill the new still dry Yuasa that I bought two months ago.

That comes out to less than U$.02 a day 

[Deltarider]

That comes out to less than U$.02 a day 

Now, let's see what old lead does these days. Ah, found it, it's € 1,40 a kilo but the same list says € 0,50 for an old battery. What would you guys do? Break the case open to remove the lead or just turn in the battery and accept the € 0,90 loss?

[bill44]

Sorry for your loss, Delta. I too, had a cheap Wal-Mart battery that finally gave out on me this past March. It was on the bike when I bought it in 2009. Fortunately, I hadn't made it out of the driveway that day. I've replaced it with a sealed agm.. Did not want acid dripping on the like new hm404 pipes I installed last year.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[robvangulik]

That comes out to less than U$.02 a day 

Now, let's see what old lead does these days. Ah, found it, it's € 1,40 a kilo but the same list says € 0,50 for an old battery. What would you guys do? Break the case open to remove the lead or just turn in the battery and accept the € 0,90 loss?

I think you've got more than 1 kilo of lead in that battery...

[Deltarider]

I think you've got more than 1 kilo of lead in that battery...

Rob, you're right. Thanks a million. Pfew... to think I was about to hand it in just like that. Well, I know what to do now. By Jove, this old battery is a goldmine.

[flatlander]

delta, you're dutch! how can you even ask this question. of course you need to maximise profit from that old battery. a few euro coins in your pocket is nothing to scoff at

[Deltarider]

delta, you're dutch! how can you even ask this question. of course you need to maximise profit from that old battery. a few euro coins in your pocket is nothing to scoff at

With you, Menno and Rob, we flatlanders have to stick together. Now Menno has already demonstrated you can operate your bike without a battery (see below). Yesterday it was my turn. Now what I dream of is a nationwide grid of 12 Volt jumper points (every house should have one) where you can start your bike and then take of without the excessive 3,2 kilo weight of a battery, not to mention that weighty Mitsuba SM-227 in there. If you go to the airport you see it being practised with passenger jets, just before pushback and I can tell ya them jets are a lot more modern than our bikes.