Topic: The holy grail of headlights

[MauiK3]

I never knew about those Toyota lights, very nice and good price

[Nachtderuntoten]

I never knew about those Toyota lights, very nice and good price

Yea, me neither. I only figured out about them because my bike currently wears a Koito sealed-beam headlight. I was looking for an H4 semi-sealed replacement and looked into multiple brands but settled upon Koito due to (1) already having one, thus making fitment a nonissue, and (2) due to reading recommendations praising them for their quality.

The price, too, i found through this forum, which linked to an other forum (that i'd already stumbled upon without realising it), and i got mine for $30-40 inclusive of shipping. They come in a pair from Toyota with a whole harness getup too; all nicely packaged with plenty of bubblewrap.

[Mr.D]

I don’t know if this be merely highly fortuitous or highly lucky; in any case, however, I think I might have a perfect* solution.

I hope that this sincerely help all concerned, as I, too, have been looking for something such as this. In my research, I found that LEDs don’t make good replacements as they radiate light in a different manner than the filament of a halogen bulb, causing blinding glare to other drivers, even when using the dipped beam. I read Daniel Sterns** page on lighting [see below] and read atop that. I Even asked him for a recommendation for a headlight, and he advised for the Philips sealed-beam unit (which basically looks like the same TruckLite unit one can also buy). This left me, as I’m sure it did the rest of you—all of us—scrounging through the straw searching for the proverbial needle. I strongly feel that Deltarider is right to suspect that the Osram LEDs are promising, and they may indeed be just the solution for which we all are looking.

Just yesterday I found out about those very bulbs; and, as it turns out, they are tested and approved for road-use in many right-hand traffic (left-hand drive) countries across Europe! They test them in the laboratory paired with different headlamps and see if the combination thereof pass the ECE R112 regulation (the European equivalent to FMVSS 108). They list, for each country accepting the Osram LED headlight bulbs, a full table of lamps and bulbs laboratory tested theremid, for truck, car, and motorcycle.

Now, as luck would have it, the Koito 7” round lamps not only fit perfectly, but they Also are certified as compatible with the Osram road-legal LEDs! The lamps are some of—if not The—best performing lamps in terms of light spread and beam pattern, according to Daniel Stern; and, according to him, they surpass the old Cibié headlamps. They have fluted glass and are a perfect fit to our SOHC4s. I looked up the code on mine and confirmed just now that it indeed is tested and approved to be used on continental European roadways, without blinding glare. They can be had for quite cheap straight from Toyota, too [see the linked forum thread below on the cheap Koito lamps wherein links to suppliers from which to purchase them can be found].

Not Only That, however: Osram makes an H4 LED headlight with a kelvin rating of 2700 that was designed to mimic perfectly the appearance of a halogen bulb. I am, as of submitting this post, going to be ordering some bulbs from a parts supplier in the Netherlands [linked below].

In short: this can be an easy way to get precisely that which Mr.D stated he wanted—a brighter (semi-)sealed lamp housing which together with its LED bulb is both brighter than stock and yet unblinding to other drivers whilst at the same time maintaining a pefrcet look or originality; all of which—in mine estimation—these bulbs and lamps strongly do.

Once I have them and everything all set up, if anyone should want, then i can report back on here my personal opinions on the lights, as well as how I felt they performed.

*subjective opinion aside
**a professional lighting consultant: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/about/about.html

References:

Daniel Stern about lights other than halogen: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

The Philips LED Headlamp: https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/au/car-lights/led-interior-and-exterior-lighting/led-integral-beam

Compatibility Lists for Vehicles & Countries: https://www.osram.com/nb-led

Forum Thread on Cheap Koito Lamps: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,204735.msg2310339/

The Osram Bulbs: https://retrofitlab.com/products/osram-ledriving-r-hl-vintage-h4-h19-r2-warm-white-halogen-look-led-2-700-k?_pos=1&_sid=ca057c3cf&_ss=r

I look forward to hearing how this works out for you! Am just a bit wary of pairing a reflector and an LED bulb, because I just tried a combo that was recommended to me (Hella reflector and AUXITO LED) and it did not turn out how I had hoped at all. Just a weird unfocused blob of light, with little difference between high and low beam. That's why I thought maybe a sealed unit would be a better option. But this sounds promising.

Thanks!

Yea, i totally understand that; and i'm sorry about the bad experience—that must've been really disheartening.
From what I understand, the issue is that pairings of LEDs and headlights is a mixed grabbag of excellent to utter #$%*e as far as light spread & beam patterns go. That's why I'm really hopeful for this since Tüv Süd (a German approval agency) specifically approved this combination of bulb & lamp. Everything that I've read and heard about ECE approved lights is nothing but favourable, with some* opining that a light passing ECE actually performs better than one passing FMVSS.
Same sentiment here; my only concern remaining now is just—as ‘Deltarider’ brought up—whether it may fit or not. I'll be sure to let you know on a post here whether it work or not.

*As suggested/stated [I don't recall which] by Daniel Stern; but he's Not the only person to say as much...

You're right, it was disheartening, especially because what I bought wasn't cheap. But, my fault I guess for not researching more, and just taking one person's recommendation. Looking forward to your report! 

[gpzkat]

Here's a cheap solution that I did on a '67 Honda Dream that I recently fixed up. The square sealed beam is not available. Europe got removable bulbs, but people want several hundred dollars for one. Surgery involved a drill and a Dremel, and some 'Amazing Goop' glue.

It's solidly glued in, but it's not too hard to remove the glue to fit a replacement; just get out the Dremel again.  There isn't enough room in the shell to use an H4 mount; I had to bend the 3 prongs 90 degrees to make it fit. Anyway, nobody's the wiser, and it works brilliantly.  I read about it on a Honda Dream forum, very slick fix IMO.  The back of the sealed beam must, of course, be metal.   The cost was $20. 

[dave500]

thank goodness for goop glue,thats a bloody well done repair,and improvement!

[Nachtderuntoten]

I don’t know if this be merely highly fortuitous or highly lucky; in any case, however, I think I might have a perfect* solution.

I hope that this sincerely help all concerned, as I, too, have been looking for something such as this. In my research, I found that LEDs don’t make good replacements as they radiate light in a different manner than the filament of a halogen bulb, causing blinding glare to other drivers, even when using the dipped beam. I read Daniel Sterns** page on lighting [see below] and read atop that. I Even asked him for a recommendation for a headlight, and he advised for the Philips sealed-beam unit (which basically looks like the same TruckLite unit one can also buy). This left me, as I’m sure it did the rest of you—all of us—scrounging through the straw searching for the proverbial needle. I strongly feel that Deltarider is right to suspect that the Osram LEDs are promising, and they may indeed be just the solution for which we all are looking.

Just yesterday I found out about those very bulbs; and, as it turns out, they are tested and approved for road-use in many right-hand traffic (left-hand drive) countries across Europe! They test them in the laboratory paired with different headlamps and see if the combination thereof pass the ECE R112 regulation (the European equivalent to FMVSS 108). They list, for each country accepting the Osram LED headlight bulbs, a full table of lamps and bulbs laboratory tested theremid, for truck, car, and motorcycle.

Now, as luck would have it, the Koito 7” round lamps not only fit perfectly, but they Also are certified as compatible with the Osram road-legal LEDs! The lamps are some of—if not The—best performing lamps in terms of light spread and beam pattern, according to Daniel Stern; and, according to him, they surpass the old Cibié headlamps. They have fluted glass and are a perfect fit to our SOHC4s. I looked up the code on mine and confirmed just now that it indeed is tested and approved to be used on continental European roadways, without blinding glare. They can be had for quite cheap straight from Toyota, too [see the linked forum thread below on the cheap Koito lamps wherein links to suppliers from which to purchase them can be found].

Not Only That, however: Osram makes an H4 LED headlight with a kelvin rating of 2700 that was designed to mimic perfectly the appearance of a halogen bulb. I am, as of submitting this post, going to be ordering some bulbs from a parts supplier in the Netherlands [linked below].

In short: this can be an easy way to get precisely that which Mr.D stated he wanted—a brighter (semi-)sealed lamp housing which together with its LED bulb is both brighter than stock and yet unblinding to other drivers whilst at the same time maintaining a pefrcet look or originality; all of which—in mine estimation—these bulbs and lamps strongly do.

Once I have them and everything all set up, if anyone should want, then i can report back on here my personal opinions on the lights, as well as how I felt they performed.

*subjective opinion aside
**a professional lighting consultant: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/about/about.html

References:

Daniel Stern about lights other than halogen: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

The Philips LED Headlamp: https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/au/car-lights/led-interior-and-exterior-lighting/led-integral-beam

Compatibility Lists for Vehicles & Countries: https://www.osram.com/nb-led

Forum Thread on Cheap Koito Lamps: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,204735.msg2310339/

The Osram Bulbs: https://retrofitlab.com/products/osram-ledriving-r-hl-vintage-h4-h19-r2-warm-white-halogen-look-led-2-700-k?_pos=1&_sid=ca057c3cf&_ss=r

I look forward to hearing how this works out for you! Am just a bit wary of pairing a reflector and an LED bulb, because I just tried a combo that was recommended to me (Hella reflector and AUXITO LED) and it did not turn out how I had hoped at all. Just a weird unfocused blob of light, with little difference between high and low beam. That's why I thought maybe a sealed unit would be a better option. But this sounds promising.

Thanks!

Yea, i totally understand that; and i'm sorry about the bad experience—that must've been really disheartening.
From what I understand, the issue is that pairings of LEDs and headlights is a mixed grabbag of excellent to utter #$%*e as far as light spread & beam patterns go. That's why I'm really hopeful for this since Tüv Süd (a German approval agency) specifically approved this combination of bulb & lamp. Everything that I've read and heard about ECE approved lights is nothing but favourable, with some* opining that a light passing ECE actually performs better than one passing FMVSS.
Same sentiment here; my only concern remaining now is just—as ‘Deltarider’ brought up—whether it may fit or not. I'll be sure to let you know on a post here whether it work or not.

*As suggested/stated [I don't recall which] by Daniel Stern; but he's Not the only person to say as much...

You're right, it was disheartening, especially because what I bought wasn't cheap. But, my fault I guess for not researching more, and just taking one person's recommendation. Looking forward to your report! 

I can totally understand. It's really hit-or-miss with bulbs since one bulb may work excellently in one lamp but might only just be mediocre in an other lamp.
Don't worry; it's coming! They're due to arrive around the 18th or so, so i'll be able to do some comparisons then.

[pickleknuckles]

I don’t know if this be merely highly fortuitous or highly lucky; in any case, however, I think I might have a perfect* solution.

I hope that this sincerely help all concerned, as I, too, have been looking for something such as this. In my research, I found that LEDs don’t make good replacements as they radiate light in a different manner than the filament of a halogen bulb, causing blinding glare to other drivers, even when using the dipped beam. I read Daniel Sterns** page on lighting [see below] and read atop that. I Even asked him for a recommendation for a headlight, and he advised for the Philips sealed-beam unit (which basically looks like the same TruckLite unit one can also buy). This left me, as I’m sure it did the rest of you—all of us—scrounging through the straw searching for the proverbial needle. I strongly feel that Deltarider is right to suspect that the Osram LEDs are promising, and they may indeed be just the solution for which we all are looking.

Just yesterday I found out about those very bulbs; and, as it turns out, they are tested and approved for road-use in many right-hand traffic (left-hand drive) countries across Europe! They test them in the laboratory paired with different headlamps and see if the combination thereof pass the ECE R112 regulation (the European equivalent to FMVSS 108). They list, for each country accepting the Osram LED headlight bulbs, a full table of lamps and bulbs laboratory tested theremid, for truck, car, and motorcycle.

Now, as luck would have it, the Koito 7” round lamps not only fit perfectly, but they Also are certified as compatible with the Osram road-legal LEDs! The lamps are some of—if not The—best performing lamps in terms of light spread and beam pattern, according to Daniel Stern; and, according to him, they surpass the old Cibié headlamps. They have fluted glass and are a perfect fit to our SOHC4s. I looked up the code on mine and confirmed just now that it indeed is tested and approved to be used on continental European roadways, without blinding glare. They can be had for quite cheap straight from Toyota, too [see the linked forum thread below on the cheap Koito lamps wherein links to suppliers from which to purchase them can be found].

Not Only That, however: Osram makes an H4 LED headlight with a kelvin rating of 2700 that was designed to mimic perfectly the appearance of a halogen bulb. I am, as of submitting this post, going to be ordering some bulbs from a parts supplier in the Netherlands [linked below].

In short: this can be an easy way to get precisely that which Mr.D stated he wanted—a brighter (semi-)sealed lamp housing which together with its LED bulb is both brighter than stock and yet unblinding to other drivers whilst at the same time maintaining a pefrcet look or originality; all of which—in mine estimation—these bulbs and lamps strongly do.

Once I have them and everything all set up, if anyone should want, then i can report back on here my personal opinions on the lights, as well as how I felt they performed.

*subjective opinion aside
**a professional lighting consultant: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/about/about.html

References:

Daniel Stern about lights other than halogen: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

The Philips LED Headlamp: https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/au/car-lights/led-interior-and-exterior-lighting/led-integral-beam

Compatibility Lists for Vehicles & Countries: https://www.osram.com/nb-led

Forum Thread on Cheap Koito Lamps: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,204735.msg2310339/

The Osram Bulbs: https://retrofitlab.com/products/osram-ledriving-r-hl-vintage-h4-h19-r2-warm-white-halogen-look-led-2-700-k?_pos=1&_sid=ca057c3cf&_ss=r

That's the beauty of the Holley RetroBright. Their reflector housing and LED are designed to work together. It's when you put an unknown LED into a halogen reflector that you get the glare and such.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[pickleknuckles]

This is a headlight that has worked for me…… for 23 years.
Sylvania H6024XV $20 available everywhere in US and Amazon.
I’m a daytime only lights on rider and this headlight served for 23 years 50000 miles without fail.
The old one was made in USA, new one is made in China. I hope the new one does as well.
If I’m riding this Honda 23 years from now it will be a miracle!

https://www.sylvania-automotive.com/sylvania-h6024-xtravision-sealed-beam-headlight-1-pack/H6024XV.BX.html

That particular SEV Marchal in yellow or clear is actually meant to be used as an auxiliary driving bulb/housing. It does not have a directional pattern and is arguably better for a motorcycle at night. I have a yellow one and it's fantastic but I haven't found an LED bulb I like in it yet. They're all too blueish.

I believe their Starlux housing is aimed for RHD but imo it looks too modern.

I know I'm going hard on the RetroBrights but they also make one w/a yellow lens. Unfortunately they only sell it w their "modern white" LED bulb. It can be swapped with their classic white bulb but it requires buying an additional bulb which is still pretty expensive.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[Nachtderuntoten]

I also pitched all the LEDs from Common Motor and went w Holley RetroBright 1156 and 1157 classic white signal and brake bulbs on the Honda.

How do/are you like/liking the led bulbs?
How well does the 1157 brake/stop-light bulb work?

I love em. The Common Motor ones were cheap, kinda dim, and flickered at idle. The fronts didn't really dim at all either when not signaling. They were also a blueish white which I didn't care for.

The RetroBrights are bright and don't flicker at all at idle. They also look completely stock in color, and the flasher from Common works really well w them. It's not the abrupt on/off that most LEDs do but it's still not quite like an incandescent. You'd really be hard pressed to tell they're not original.
The brake light is completely illuminated too, not just a hot spot in the center, and it's really bright when the brake is applied.

All of my vintage vehicles will be getting a full set of the Holley's as I get around to it.

I'll snap some pics of em later today.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

Funny, because i was concerned about the efficacy of the common motor LEDs for turn signals, etc. ¿Did you even do your instrument gauges and instrument panel?

Did/could you ever get photos for how your headlight, signals, and gauges look, at night & at day?

[pickleknuckles]

Funny, because i was concerned about the efficacy of the common motor LEDs for turn signals, etc. ¿Did you even do your instrument gauges and instrument panel?

Did/could you ever get photos for how your headlight, signals, and gauges look, at night & at day?

I ended up returning the bulbs from Common and getting some different warm white bulbs for the gauges and indicator lights from Yamiya. Did the high beam and turn signal. Couldn't find any instructions on getting neutral or oil to work correctly so they're still incandescents. I believe they just need to be grounded but I'm not 100% on it and haven't bothered to figure it out.
The high beam indicator LED is WAY too bright while the gauges are super dim. The signal indicator LED is crazy bright too but imo that's ok as I don't have the buzzer hooked up so it's good to see it during the day. I'll prob just put a piece of cheap window tint or tinted lighting gel on the back of the high beam indicator lens. The prob with the indicator bulbs is not only finding the right brightness and color temp, it's finding bulbs that are short enough to fit.

I did snap some pics of the RetroBrights but it's really hard to photograph lights so they either look dim and clear, or super bright and blown out. Either way, you don't get a good pic of the color temp or light quality. They're all warmer looking in person. ...so just keep that in mind when looking at them.
You also can't see a lot of difference when the brakes are applied due to the phone's auto light adjust.

[Nachtderuntoten]

Don't worry; it's coming! They're due to arrive around the 18th or so, so i'll be able to do some comparisons then.

The lights arrived to-day, earlier than expected. I'm getting my forks and chain replaced, so it'll be into next week once the work is all done that i can do a side by side comparison.

P.S. If anyone know a good way to shrink the photos down to size, then i can send/attach them too this post.

[Mr.D]

I did all my instrument lights, turn signals, and tail light with LEDs from SuperBrightLEDs.com
I'm very happy with them. I think I went with the 1157 Dual Function one (in red) for the tail light; the 1156 27 LED Tower (in amber) for the turn signals; and BA9s 4 LED bulbs (each in the correct color) for the instrument cluster.

I do remember one of the blue's I ordered for the high beam indicator was crazy bright, so I bought another one that's much more reasonable, though I forget which one it was. Anyway, they have a huge selection. Not the easiest website to navigate, but worth a look.

[Deltarider]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

[newday777]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

Why can't you just be encouraging in your replies?

[Deltarider]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

Why can't you just be encouraging in your replies?

But I was. I even added the possibility of a light sensor as found on almost all Dutch bicycles nowadays. Cheaper and less labor.

[Nachtderuntoten]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

Why can't you just be encouraging in your replies?

But I was. I even added the possibility of a light sensor as found on almost all Dutch bicycles nowadays. Cheaper and less labor.

I personally wouldn't do that since i do care about the originality* of my CB750. I'm fairly confident that there must've been Someone to have tried exactly what you're suggesting, especially on a café build of a SOHC4.

*While a perfectly original bike to me is a work of art to be cherished and preserved, my bike is Not one hundred percent as was when made in November of 1971. As such, i'm not preternaturally anal concerning pure originality because (1) there are original bikes which can be called original but which have seen much wear, abuse, and/or rusting, and (2) there are wear items which, due to the availability of new old stock and reproduction items not always being so great, one must then opine for, and install, a nonoriginal item—and some, though not I, prefer than anyhow.

[turin39789]

This topic - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,194702.0.html  had Pewe testing out a replacement LED bulb that did yellow low beam, white high beam but I don't think it was ever resolved.

I searched and found this cheap but no clue if it is any good - https://ledlights.io/products/10000lm-h4-led-moto-h6-ba20d-led-motorcycle-headlight-bulbs-csp-lens-white-yellow-hi-lo-lamp-scooter-accessories-fog-lights-12v

I think holy grail might be a full unit that supported yellow/white that was designed for the bulb inside and maybe not $200 but I'm greedy.

[newday777]

Cheap will come back in behind and bite your butt

[PeWe]

I tried that yellow/white bulb last year.
It had not bright enough LO light (yellow).
I was also involved in close encounters with car drivers as I did not have done before with the bright white LED.
Maybe they saw the yellow light as a distant tractor or other light.
Yellow light is not common here on cars or bikes.
Very few have it. Maybe french people that have done a wrong turn and ended up here, lost in space.
So I switched back to my bright white LED.
Not the best light pattern.  It does not blind others and I see the road as good as with a  std H4 halogen.

It takes lower amps so the total will not be much with the auxiliary 2x15W  lamps on fork tubes. Like a std halogen of 60W, maybe a few W more at HI.

The evenings are not dark  in need of a  good light beam until mid October after 7pm.
For that my K6 got an improvement that light up the road as a landing strip.

My rear light got a good LED bulb that really works. Light brighter when braking and good light at licence plate too

[Nachtderuntoten]

Cheap will come back in behind and bite your butt

Agreed. Most of the LEDs to buy, of all sorts, though especially the cheap ones, tend to have bad driver electronics causing them to fail prematurely, not to mention the beam pattern for headlight bulbs...

[Mr.D]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

Well, short answer... because I wanted to. I like the safety aspect of having brigher turn signals and tail light, and I also think it looks really good. One turn signal had burnt out anyway, so rather than replace it with an ancient-style bulb, I looked into LEDs and found these ones very suitable. I like the look, they'll last forever, and they draw less power.  (I know, I know... in Europe.... blah blah)

[scottly]

Why bother? Just add a switch or a light sensor. Who needs instrument lights at daytime?

Why bother? Who cares if the instrument lights are on at daytime?

[Nachtderuntoten]

I did all my instrument lights, turn signals, and tail light with LEDs from SuperBrightLEDs.com
I'm very happy with them. I think I went with the 1157 Dual Function one (in red) for the tail light; the 1156 27 LED Tower (in amber) for the turn signals; and BA9s 4 LED bulbs (each in the correct color) for the instrument cluster.

I do remember one of the blue's I ordered for the high beam indicator was crazy bright, so I bought another one that's much more reasonable, though I forget which one it was. Anyway, they have a huge selection. Not the easiest website to navigate, but worth a look.

¿Did the red taillight bulb not give you a red lit license plate, lol?

[Mr.D]

I did all my instrument lights, turn signals, and tail light with LEDs from SuperBrightLEDs.com
I'm very happy with them. I think I went with the 1157 Dual Function one (in red) for the tail light; the 1156 27 LED Tower (in amber) for the turn signals; and BA9s 4 LED bulbs (each in the correct color) for the instrument cluster.

I do remember one of the blue's I ordered for the high beam indicator was crazy bright, so I bought another one that's much more reasonable, though I forget which one it was. Anyway, they have a huge selection. Not the easiest website to navigate, but worth a look.

¿Did the red taillight bulb not give you a red lit license plate, lol?

Oh! You're right! I went with the white light!

[Nachtderuntoten]

I did all my instrument lights, turn signals, and tail light with LEDs from SuperBrightLEDs.com
I'm very happy with them. I think I went with the 1157 Dual Function one (in red) for the tail light; the 1156 27 LED Tower (in amber) for the turn signals; and BA9s 4 LED bulbs (each in the correct color) for the instrument cluster.

I do remember one of the blue's I ordered for the high beam indicator was crazy bright, so I bought another one that's much more reasonable, though I forget which one it was. Anyway, they have a huge selection. Not the easiest website to navigate, but worth a look.

¿Did the red taillight bulb not give you a red lit license plate, lol?

Oh! You're right! I went with the white light!

Did you have problems with the white led creating a washed-out orangey light from the red taillight lens?