Topic: 77 CB750 F resurrection notes. (update)

[TwoTired]

So, I got a new project.
I don't know why these keep finding me.  It's a 77 CB750F with 20 K miles.  Parked and ignored since 1983...I think.  I can't seem to ignore a rescue of a forlorn bike.

I've evicted spiders, and restored the brakes to operation.  Wasn't easy. Brake fluid had totally crystallized in the master and corrosion have frozen both master cylinders.
 The carbs came apart today and the insides are gummy, but no corrosion.  A good cleaning is going to make them work fine.  The tank, ugh. He parked it with a full tank.  What a godawfull smell.  There is so much rust in there I have no idea why it doesn't leak.  It's only hope is electrolysis de-rusting, I think.  Worth a try since it is totally dent free.  I'll probably have to borrow a tank from another F for the start attempt.
Then the engine, which turns over freely, should be ready for a start attempt.  So, I check the oil tank, no oil.  Okay, the anti-drainback valve let it go back to the sump...maybe.  I stuck a battery on it and kicked the engine over till my legs got too wobbly, but the oil light stayed on.  Fudge.

Two questions:
How much kicking should make the oil light go out?  Given all the oil from the tank and filter are in the sump.
Without, doing the drain plug thing, is there a sly way to see if there is, in fact, oil in the sump?  (I do see some places where weeping could have occurred, which worries me.)

[Sam Green Racing]

Drain plug out Lloyd and in with new oil. It will take a lot of kicking as the oil that is in the sump has got to get to the tank before it can get to the bearings.

Sam.

[SteveD CB500F]

Is this a first?

TT asking for help!!

And what does he get?   SamCR750 (say no more)

Lloyd, there's a fairly recent thread about "how many kicks does it take to make the oil light go out" and I seem to remember that consensus was - "quite a lot"!

[dpen]

Go along with samCR - oil & filter before starting - cheap insurance

You don't want whatever is in the motor running around even for a brief spell.

[Patrick]

I just went through this very thing a couple weeks ago with my new K0. I think I could still be kicking that kickstarter and the light would still be mocking me.

You really need fresh oil, TT. I don't know how much better oil is formulated today than in 1983, but I know oil formulated today is better than oil that was actually formulated and used in 1983.

I finally got the light to go out by pulling the plugs, putting fresh oil down through the valve cover (about a pint) and then putting a little compressed air pressure (couple of pounds, maybe) into the oil tank to help prime it. This was a fresh rebuild, so priming was necessary. I turned it over with the starter motor in short bursts and the light finally went out.

The starter motor is a wonderful labor-saving device. I highly recommend it.

Patrick

[upperlake04]

  Same engine, oil tank full, 15-40 RotellaT, 25F, last run 40 hours ago, 27 kicks.

[MRieck]

 I've got to agree about changing the oil and filter TwoTired. My worry is H20 in the oil secondary to condensation over the years. Any 10-40 oil will do....nothing fancy. As for the kicking....I think you'll get a great aerobic workout but..... I spin the engine with no plugs and the ignition disconnected. You obviously have a battery installed to power the pressure light so use the starter. The good thing is your pump is full so it's not like trying to gain pressure with a dry pump (which can be a real pain).

[TwoTired]

Thanks guys, for your comments.  I guess I was just trying to avoid that logical conclusion, since I've no idea if the engine is even worth the oil that's presently in it.  

It's funny how the question seems silly after a good night's sleep.  It's always been so that I produce the best answers to questions the day after the question arises, especially my own.  

This morning I woke up with the resolve to change the oil, only to have it confirmed with excellent rationale by the best on this forum.  The water inside concerns me most, I think.

I will note with interest how much water/oil/sludge/mold drains out, assuming it's still able to flow at all.

Does the scavenge pump need some serious RPM to become effective?  I thought I would at least get some oil back into the tank with all that kicking.

Thanks,

The site wouldn't let me post a picture of the orphan last night...  Maybe this time?

[andy750]

Dosent look too bad Llyod and Im sure the "desert" climate has helped -dosent look to be a whole lot of rust which may also suggest that water in your oil may be less of an issue. As others have said and you know yourself, best thing to do is change the oil. You could also drop the oil pan if so inclined and inspect oil pump filter for anything nasty although pulling the filter cover and checking the filter/oil there is also a good indication of "foreign objects".

For turning the pump over as others stated, take out the plugs, and with ignition off at kill switch, crank over the starter motor - I bought a battery powerpack for that very purpose so I wouldnt drain my own battery so much.

Good luck with it and keep us posted!
cheers
Andy

[Bob Wessner]

The site wouldn't let me post a picture of the orphan last night...  Maybe this time?

The problem was space. Glenn fixed it while he continues his efforts to relocate things. Give it another try.

[Sam Green Racing]

Is this a first?

TT asking for help!!

And what does he get?   SamCR750 (say no more)

That's what I thought Steve, wasn't sure if it was a wind up on Lloyd's part.

Sam.

[medic09]

We've had a first AND a second.

You all blew by his "I guess I was just trying to avoid that logical conclusion..."! 

This, from the man who has taught more amateur mechanics to approach a problem systematically, rationally, and rule out the possibilities?!  This is sort of like Spock having an emotion!   

Sorry, TT; you know we highly respect your tutelage and appreciate all your help.  We'll all try to forget this little lapse...   

[scondon]

  Nice find, TT

   Since I am just up the road, and awash with leftover F2 parts, I was going to offer up some parts for what sounded to be a "rustbucket" resto. Nothing in my garage looks better than what's hangin' on your bike right now though   If you find anything missing let me know, I may have it.

   P.S.     That stock exhaust looks great. Most are rusted out where the collecter meets the muffler. Nice!

[Sam Green Racing]

We've had a first AND a second.

You all blew by his "I guess I was just trying to avoid that logical conclusion..."! 

This, from the man who has taught more amateur mechanics to approach a problem systematically, rationally, and rule out the possibilities?!  This is sort of like Spock having an emotion!   

Sorry, TT; you know we highly respect your tutelage and appreciate all your help.  We'll all try to forget this little lapse...   

 

Sam

[TwoTired]

Is this a first?

TT asking for help!!

No, it isn't.  But, I caught a ration of sh!t the last time I posted a question, too.  May even have been you, Steve.  My reward for NOT announcing that picture of you in full leathers on your bright red Triumph, being a poster exemplifying mid-life crisis, no doubt.

This, from the man who has taught more amateur mechanics to approach a problem systematically, rationally, and rule out the possibilities?!  This is sort of like Spock having an emotion!   

Never said I was perfect or devoid of emotion.  I get excited and effected by time pressures, too.  It's just that, in my experience, most problems/puzzles are best solved by contemplation  rather than reactive flail.  Two (or more) heads often think of possibilities one would not.  The forum is a very good resource that I've gain knowledge from, just by reading. 
Note, I didn't try to start this bike.  I'm "preparing" to start the bike. I really just wanted to see if there was oil in it, and, if someone more clever than me knew how to ascertain that with drain plug removal. How many people fix brakes before getting the engine running?

So there...

Cheers, 

[mkramer1121]

I fixed the brakes before getting the engine running.......figured I'd want to ride it when it started and wanted to be able to stop! 

[TwoTired]

  Nice find, TT

   Since I am just up the road, and awash with leftover F2 parts, I was going to offer up some parts for what sounded to be a "rustbucket" resto. Nothing in my garage looks better than what's hangin' on your bike right now though   If you find anything missing let me know, I may have it.

   P.S.     That stock exhaust looks great. Most are rusted out where the collecter meets the muffler. Nice!

Thanks Sean, but I wasn't looking for it.  It found me, pretty much like the others I have. 

Nice offer for the parts, too.  Got a right side cover? The seat pan on this one is probably worthless, as I can see foam through the rusted metal at the lower most area from beneath it.  I have a good King Queen I might use.  But, another option seems desirable.

Been working on the tank today.  What a godawful smell from the old gas/rust!  It's got pin holes at the very top next to the tank door!  Soaking in TSP/Water now.  If I can get the tank clean inside I'll braze up the holes and line the tank.
I think I can save the petcock (completely plugged up, but not corroded).  But the in tank filter came out in pieces.    Guess I'll have to use one of those friggin inline filters with this petcock.

So, far the tank and seat look to be the worst of the lot.

The muffler does look to be intact.  We'll see when I get it to run.  There is so much dog dirt in the yard around the bike that I just haven't gotten low and looked under it where the rust is likely to begin.  I don't have the bike home yet.  It's about 3-4 miles away.  My truck is full of...stuff.  So, I decided to try and drive the bike home instead of haul it.  I take parts off and drag them home to refurbish, then go back and put them back on.  That's what I did with the brakes.  And now, the carbs and tank are home.  I'll put those back when the new carb rubbers get here.

Kinda funny.  This is my third Cb750F, and my second 77 model of same.  I got a 77F years ago with the intention of touring it with the wife on the back.  I was still working then and didn't have time to restore it.  But, I bought enough parts from Honda, that have never been installed, to do the job.  The first bike has a Kerker on it in descent shape, but just too loud for touring.  So, I bought an entire stock 4 into 1 exhaust system.  Then went nuts and got a new tank, side covers, seat and cowl, even shocks from Honda to do the restoration.  Later, when the 78 arrived, I bought enough parts to make two complete bikes.  Buying parts was easy.  Getting time away from work was impossible.  So, now I have three 750Fs and enough parts to make two pretty good ones... if the valve trains hold up. (Actually, the first F model has a K engine in it.)

Cheers,

[MRieck]

Is this a first?

TT asking for help!!

No, it isn't.  But, I caught a ration of sh!t the last time I posted a question, too.  May even have been you, Steve.  My reward for NOT announcing that picture of you in full leathers on your bright red Triumph, being a poster exemplifying mid-life crisis, no doubt.

This, from the man who has taught more amateur mechanics to approach a problem systematically, rationally, and rule out the possibilities?!  This is sort of like Spock having an emotion!   

Never said I was perfect or devoid of emotion.  I get excited and effected by time pressures, too.  It's just that, in my experience, most problems/puzzles are best solved by contemplation  rather than reactive flail.  Two (or more) heads often think of possibilities one would not.  The forum is a very good resource that I've gain knowledge from, just by reading. 
Note, I didn't try to start this bike.  I'm "preparing" to start the bike. I really just wanted to see if there was oil in it, and, if someone more clever than me knew how to ascertain that with drain plug removal. How many people fix brakes before getting the engine running?

So there...

Cheers, 

I ask for feedback too. Smarter bike guys than me have asked my opinion on everything from carb settings to cam lobe centers. I'm a humble man and the people I talk to are also. Some won't give up their secrets (at least at first ) but for the most part great men. I'm lucky to know some incredibly smart, innovative men involved in motorcycling. I also know they would call me their friend. Give and yee shall receive.....

[TwoTired]

I fixed the brakes before getting the engine running.......figured I'd want to ride it when it started and wanted to be able to stop! 

Errr, great minds think alike?

 

[MRieck]

 I'm going out Saturday with azuredesigns (Ben) to look at a pile of 750 engine stuff. It's sounds good as Ben already checked it out. I'm thinking of doing several heads in various stages to sell outright. I know 1 person sitting on 2 ARD mags etc. not because he is a jerk (nicest guy you would want to meet) but because he just forgot he had them. A former national hillclimbing champion too. His trophy shelf....in the garage....is incredible. Most won with a CB engine. You'd love this guy.

[scondon]

Thanks Sean, but I wasn't looking for it.  It found me, pretty much like the others I have. 

Nice offer for the parts, too.  Got a right side cover? The seat pan on this one is probably worthless, as I can see foam through the rusted metal at the lower most area from beneath it.  I have a good King Queen I might use.  But, another option seems desirable.

   For god's sake, man!  step....away....from...the...King/Queen....seat.  I've got a decent pan and cover in the garage. You can pull all the hardware,trim, and rear cowl off of yours and use mine if you like. Friends don't let friends sit on King/Queen seats. ESPECIALLY on a 750F!!!!

   The tanks, side covers, gauges have either been used on my first resto or were snapped up years ago. I've got PLENTY of parts, special washers, tabs, engine bits, brackets, wheels, brakes, rubber pieces, headers, electrics, etc. Most of which is in good shape, just none of that nice "bling" that would instantly transform a bucket into a "looker". You're fortunate that it's the right side cover you need since the '75-'76 covers should fit as well(I think) and the oil tank doesn't look half bad should you decide to go "sans" cover.

     Should you find yourself in N. Oakland as your project progresses, it would be no problem at all if you want to stop by and look through my stuff

[MRieck]

Thanks Sean, but I wasn't looking for it.  It found me, pretty much like the others I have. 

Nice offer for the parts, too.  Got a right side cover? The seat pan on this one is probably worthless, as I can see foam through the rusted metal at the lower most area from beneath it.  I have a good King Queen I might use.  But, another option seems desirable.

   For god's sake, man!  step....away....from...the...King/Queen....seat.  I've got a decent pan and cover in the garage. You can pull all the hardware,trim, and rear cowl off of yours and use mine if you like. Friends don't let friends sit on King/Queen seats. ESPECIALLY on a 750F!!!!

   The tanks, side covers, gauges have either been used on my first resto or were snapped up years ago. I've got PLENTY of parts, special washers, tabs, engine bits, brackets, wheels, brakes, rubber pieces, headers, electrics, etc. Most of which is in good shape, just none of that nice "bling" that would instantly transform a bucket into a "looker". You're fortunate that it's the right side cover you need since the '75-'76 covers should fit as well(I think) and the oil tank doesn't look half bad should you decide to go "sans" cover.

     Should you find yourself in N. Oakland as your project progresses, it would be no problem at all if you want to stop by and look through my stuff

Yeah...I've got some parts for that step child too

[medic09]

Is this a first?

TT asking for help!!

No, it isn't.  But, I caught a ration of sh!t the last time I posted a question, too.  May even have been you, Steve.  My reward for NOT announcing that picture of you in full leathers on your bright red Triumph, being a poster exemplifying mid-life crisis, no doubt.

This, from the man who has taught more amateur mechanics to approach a problem systematically, rationally, and rule out the possibilities?!  This is sort of like Spock having an emotion!   

Never said I was perfect or devoid of emotion.  I get excited and effected by time pressures, too.  It's just that, in my experience, most problems/puzzles are best solved by contemplation  rather than reactive flail.  Two (or more) heads often think of possibilities one would not.  The forum is a very good resource that I've gain knowledge from, just by reading. 
Note, I didn't try to start this bike.  I'm "preparing" to start the bike. I really just wanted to see if there was oil in it, and, if someone more clever than me knew how to ascertain that with drain plug removal. How many people fix brakes before getting the engine running?

So there...

Cheers, 

Geesh!  Have a little fun at a guy's expense (I sincerely apologize if it was taken as offensive), and get an engineer's answer in return!

 

(And I meant what I said about all appreciating your talking folks through the problem solving.)

[TwoTired]

Geesh!  Have a little fun at a guy's expense (I sincerely apologize if it was taken as offensive)...

Nah, I figure if you dish it out you should be able to take it, too...

Besides, I get complaints if I make comments that are too short!


 

[TwoTired]

   For god's sake, man!  step....away....from...the...King/Queen....seat.  I've got a decent pan and cover in the garage. You can pull all the hardware,trim, and rear cowl off of yours and use mine if you like. Friends don't let friends sit on King/Queen seats. ESPECIALLY on a 750F!!!!

I dunno Sean.  I forgot to mention the bike came with a Tank bag, Big Vetter lookalike fairing, and cavernous hardbags.  That's what the big diamond plate is for on those grab rails.  King/Queen seat might just complete the "look", if you know what I mean.     Maybe a tall padded sissy bar, or better yet a trunk out back to blend with the Queen bucket, as a finishing touch.

I started the electrolysis on the tank, today.  It's working, but, it's going to take days to have the rust be gone.  Found some pin holes on the side near the emblem, too.  It's definitely going to need a liner.  And, a paint job.  Ever see a purple 750F in full dress?