Topic: Behind The Curve??

[edbikerii]

What's the Job Bank?

Had to resurrect this one. I just saw a news item wherein the UAW was having "emergency meetings" to discuss what additional concessions they might offer as part of the Big Three [sic] getting Fed help. One of the items the UAW might consider is abolishing the Job Bank. If the Feds don't insist on that one, we sent the wrong people to Washington.

[333]

What gets my goat is that the Japanese manufacturers have gotten state tax breaks for YEARS.  CNN reported this last week.  Virtually all the Japanese plants continue to receive tax breaks, long after they were "lured" to set up shop in their respective states.  Meanwhile, only GM receives a tax break similar to what the Japanese get, but only on one plant, and considerably less than what the Japanese get as well.  And if I remember it right, it's a Saturn plant, so according to the morning paper, it will probably close, as GM has said that it will give up producing this line for the bailout.

[eldar]

Dumb thing is the saturn line has been doing pretty well for them. I can understand dumping saab and gmc though.

[Bob Wessner]

What's the Job Bank?

Had to resurrect this one. I just saw a news item wherein the UAW was having "emergency meetings" to discuss what additional concessions they might offer as part of the Big Three [sic] getting Fed help. One of the items the UAW might consider is abolishing the Job Bank. If the Feds don't insist on that one, we sent the wrong people to Washington.

Ed,

Job Banks were negotiated back in the late 80's I believe. Workers who are laid-off continue to draw nearly 100% of their salary and benefits for very long periods of time, in some cases more than a year, even though the work they use to perform is no longer being done. Sounds like a good deal for the worker of course, but quite a burden for any employer. I never could understand why the autos agreed to that one.

[edbikerii]

Why lay anyone off if there is no cost savings?  Might as well sub-contract them out or something.  I can't believe management was so stupid to agree to that.  They deserve to be re-orged if they get DIME ONE from the TAXPAYERS.

What's the Job Bank?

Had to resurrect this one. I just saw a news item wherein the UAW was having "emergency meetings" to discuss what additional concessions they might offer as part of the Big Three [sic] getting Fed help. One of the items the UAW might consider is abolishing the Job Bank. If the Feds don't insist on that one, we sent the wrong people to Washington.

Ed,

Job Banks were negotiated back in the late 80's I believe. Workers who are laid-off continue to draw nearly 100% of their salary and benefits for very long periods of time, in some cases more than a year, even though the work they use to perform is no longer being done. Sounds like a good deal for the worker of course, but quite a burden for any employer. I never could understand why the autos agreed to that one.

[eldar]

The UAW has gotten some serious concessions from the automakers. Problem is they are partly to blame for killing their own golden goose. Now they are reluctant to drop some of those concessions even though if they do not, they have nothing. The union will dissolve and they will be looking for work just like everyone else.

[Caaveman82]

     Not to be a total dick but these a$$ faces did this to themselves with all the damn SUV madness. Instead of putting money into making better vehicles and what ever they dumped it all into SUV development.... Oops. I don't feel bad for them.

[Demon67]

They all made business decisions and they were wrong, so I don't have any sympathy for them, I also don't have much feelings for the union as well, if you are working at something for a while, you pick up on the company problems and where that leaves you, so to think that every things going to be good for ever, means that you're a fool and deserve what fate hands you.
Bill the demon.

[eldar]

With the unions, they are entrusted to seek better contracts. Given the situation, I would be willing to bet many of the actual workers are willing to make a new less costly contract. It is getting the union management to do it.

[333]

First, they aren't to blame for SUVs, we are.  No business makes a product unless someone will buy it.  And no business has the power to make everyone want their product.  WE ARE TO BLAME.  The American idea of "Bigger is better" is to blame.  And as far as I can tell, they were making a decent product.  The SUVs were selling.  Nobody was complaining about the quality.  I've never bought anything but an American car, and have been quite satisfied.  Years ago, I was given a Toyota Celica GT.  It was okay, but considering it was a '74, I would not have wanted to be in a wreck in it.

As I see it, The Japanese just did it cheaper.  Once they got around the import taxes by building cars here, they sold cars at a better price.  They started offering options that we hadn't thought of.  And in that area, I think the U.S. auto makers did a decent job of keeping up.  We just want it all.  We want all the bells and whistles, and at a good price.

At this point, though, I would point out that the Japanese auto sales are currently down just as much as the U.S..  But because of tax breaks that they have had for years, along with decent sales numbers (up to a point), they aren't hurting as much.  If the economy doesn't turn around soon, they will suffer as well.

[edbikerii]

+1 333.

Doesn't it make sense to put money into your biggest profit centers (SUVs)?  Sure, it would be nice to continue development on the lower-margin business lines just in case of an economic downturn, but hey, who's gonna focus on that when they can be raking in GIGANTIC PROFITS on SUVs?  That being said, the big three have been pretty active in the CROSSOVER SUV market for the past few years.

I don't know too much about GM and Chrysler crossover vehicles, but I am pretty familiar with Ford's crossover strategy.  The Ford Edge is a REALLY COOL vehicle.  My X-wife just bought one (yes, she's flush with alimony), and with the Sync system hooking up to the BlackBerry and getting INSTANT SAT NAV for no extra cost, it is quite impressive.  The Edge is very comfortable, looks very good IMO, is pretty sporty (for basically a station wagon), seats 7, and gets pretty good gas mileage (considering).

Also, she traded in a Ford Freestyle (now called Taurus X, I think), with a very innovative CVT tranny (from Ford's Volvo affiliation) for her Edge.  She had that car for more than two years, so Ford was working on crossovers actively as far back as 2005.  That was a pretty cool vehicle, too, but IMO looked too much like a mini Explorer.

Besides, the price of gas is so low right now that fuel economy is not as high a priority for the "general buying public" as it was 7 months ago.  Right now, I think most people are so concerned about making their monthly payments that they wouldn't buy a new car anyway, regardless of fuel efficiency.

Ah, let's not forget about the Milan, Crown-Victoria, and Explorer Hybrids that are coming out, too.  I don't think anybody short of cash should invest in these now, but it's not like Ford hasn't been working on fuel efficiency.

     Not to be a total dick but these a$$ faces did this to themselves with all the damn SUV madness. Instead of putting money into making better vehicles and what ever they dumped it all into SUV development.... Oops. I don't feel bad for them.

[Bob Wessner]

I have to agree on Ford. They seem to have seen the light and have been making improvements in many areas, including quality from what I have read, for some time. I actually like the Ford Flex.. go figure.

[333]

 

Ed actually agrees with me???  I know not totally, cause he's a Ford man, and I'm a GM guy.  But still, I'm glad I was sitting down.

[edbikerii]

Hey, when you are right, you are right!

Ed actually agrees with me???  I know not totally, cause he's a Ford man, and I'm a GM guy.  But still, I'm glad I was sitting down.

[edbikerii]

And while I prefer Fords, I've worked on many a GM with my buddies.  Rebuilt a few Chevy 350s, a Pontiac 400, a couple Buick V6s (GNs kicked ass).

I can't say I hate GMs, either.

Ed actually agrees with me???  I know not totally, cause he's a Ford man, and I'm a GM guy.  But still, I'm glad I was sitting down.

[eldar]

One of the problems is that gas WILL go back up and it will most likely be in the next year. Continued development on fuel economy is very important. If that does not happen, they will still go down. they should also research new materials. Decent materials to lower the weight. I know they do this dent resistant body panel shiit but that is only good when the damn car is not frozen. Those panels break so easily in cold weather. Way to implement more carbon fiber or stronger aluminum alloys and such, is the way to start going.

[TwoTired]

I can't say I hate GMs, either.

I can!!  I can!!  I can!!  I can!!

I didn't used to,  But, I do now.  I'm shopping for a new car right now.  Walked down auto row and briefly considered looking at the Chevy lot.  Some of them look good from a distance.  The wife was emphatically against it, and reminded me of SES light issues (amongst a long list of others) in the Camaro, which the GM dealer Techs (including the "experienced" manager) could never figure out and actually made worse.  And, then charged us $100 for each visit (under warranty) for their ineptness.

Still we DID look at Saturns (Aura).  And, actually rather liked it.  But, we used to like Oldmobile, too.  And, it looks like Saturn will go the same path as the Olds into extinction.
No, thanks!

I'm happy to let GM die a gruesome death, and gleefully watch in delight.

[eldar]

ford = found on road dead. or backwards, driver returns on foot. Another classic. F*cked-over rebuild dodge.

In many cases, these are all true. In my experience. Just like yours, right tt.

[edbikerii]

Well, even though these silly acronyms are the domain of 12 year old boys on the schoolyard, there is always "First On Race Day".

[333]

A popular one in my area(because it's a real name) was Found On Rockville Dump.

[DarkRider]

Ok...the remark about 1st gen Neons wasn't exactly appreciated lol.. I have a 95 Highline sedan with the 5 speed in it and was about to buy an R/T coupe in january had plans not changed with work. Anyways...in the short time i have owned it i have felt it was a better car then the 05 Pontiac Wave i owned last year. With that car i felt much safer on the bike then i did in the car lol. If GM needs to drop lines so bad why not get rid of the Aveo/Wave twins...they arent even GM cars they are made by Daewoo.

Now in regards to harley. If i could afford one i would rather have a Vrod rather then the traditional harleys due to the fact that the engine is actually something different for a change. Yes its a Vtwin but its also liquid cooled and can actually rev. Now the smart thing for harley would be to take the Revolution engine and let Buell use it in their models. Buel Lightning powered by a Revolution twin anyone? On the other hand i wouldnt turn down an offered Softail either though lol...I admit i have been looking into HDs...i just tend to ignore the mouth breathing idiots that think they are gods answer to motorcycles.

[eldar]

My wife had a 98 plymouth neon. It SUCKED. It was the expresso model and well, it may have been quick around town, it stunk on the highway. At 75 you were running almost 4000 rpm. It was a 5 speed. For comparison, my s-10 was a 4 speed manual and would do just about 2500 at 90mph. Of course gearing changes but still, that is high rpm.

The windows on the doors would never seal right. You ALWAYS had to roll the window down a little and back up to get a seal. It also average a pack of headlights a year. A common problem as I came to hear from chrysler techs. It also required regular resets of the computer or the check engine light would come on for no reason. Stop in at the shop and hook computer to car and reset and on your way. No big deal but just one more thing that should not happen.
maybe the dodge line was better?

This about our experience.
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1995-to-1999-plymouth-neon.htm

[DarkRider]

I do agree with the window issue but then again the rest of the car seems sound...cant really complain since i got it for $800. I could be noticing less problems due to the fact that the Highline is nothing more then a base model with monotone paint and a slightly jazzed up interior. So...less to go wrong. On the flipside the Expresso and the R/T are more complex with their DOHC engines.

[eldar]

I guess I should have noted that the neon has gone through something like 4 head gaskets too.

[Bob Wessner]

I personally have no experience with Chrysler cars, but the mention of the Neon rang true. My ex (first wife) remarried a Chrysler exec. When my daughter graduated from college he was able to get her a new Neon at a pretty good (we thought then) price.

Terrible car, just terrible.