Author Topic: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a crabby "old-timer"  (Read 129560 times)

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2008, 11:22:35 AM »
So, started this thread =>http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=42826.msg443881#msg443881  for 650 owners (Martino) who have that sloooow starter crank when it gets hot.  I figured for $26 in parts and the fact I have a 650 starter just sitting and collecting dust in my parts bin, I'll be a canary in a coal mine for ya.

Hush- took your advice, bought the oil filter and all the goodies that came with it, (o-rings) and an oil pan gasket (cuz I'm leakin' pretty gross down there) so after I get my riding in, have 'er broke in smooth, and it starts snowing/sleeting/blowing sideways, I can change my oil, look into replacing that oil pan gasket and getting 'er nipped up tight.  (unless it'd be a structurally bad idea to get it tightened up nice when the metal's cold and shrunk, then have it expand 'too' much when it gets hot?  I don't know about these things sometimes)

Any suggestions on cleaning the oil screen?  I figure it may not have been done in 30 years...
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
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Offline martino1972

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2008, 02:14:47 PM »
So, started this thread =>http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=42826.msg443881#msg443881  for 650 owners (Martino) who have that sloooow starter crank when it gets hot.  I figured for $26 in parts and the fact I have a 650 starter just sitting and collecting dust in my parts bin, I'll be a canary in a coal mine for ya.

Hush- took your advice, bought the oil filter and all the goodies that came with it, (o-rings) and an oil pan gasket (cuz I'm leakin' pretty gross down there) so after I get my riding in, have 'er broke in smooth, and it starts snowing/sleeting/blowing sideways, I can change my oil, look into replacing that oil pan gasket and getting 'er nipped up tight.  (unless it'd be a structurally bad idea to get it tightened up nice when the metal's cold and shrunk, then have it expand 'too' much when it gets hot?  I don't know about these things sometimes)

Any suggestions on cleaning the oil screen?  I figure it may not have been done in 30 years...


don't matter that the oil pan is cold when assembled,it would be wise to recheck the bolts after let's say 100km...

Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #127 on: November 06, 2008, 02:20:14 PM »
I used engine degreaser $2,95 a spray can and did both the sump and filter screen with it, jezz the PO could not ever I mean ever have changed the oil in my 79!
It took ages to remove the varnish (that's what it had become) from screen, not sure how bike sucked up any oil to head and suprised bike did not sieze rock solid!
Hope the oil change etc helps with your leak problem Kits, it cured mine and she aint leaked a drop since, I think in appreciation of my TLC. ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #128 on: November 07, 2008, 05:31:14 PM »
*pssst!* Hey... *looks around for Kit so she doesn't catch me*...


Kit rode her cycle tonight!!!!   ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

We have pics but have to charge up the camera. just had enough battery to click a few off. Will post ASAP. (there's a great butt shot in there but I'm keeping that one to myself. ;))
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
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Offline martino1972

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #129 on: November 07, 2008, 07:48:33 PM »
(there's a great butt shot in there but I'm keeping that one to myself. ;))

snif,saving the best for yourself,eh????? ;) ;)

great that she's driving the bike yhough,very well deserved......
Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #130 on: November 07, 2008, 09:02:49 PM »
I dunno... the front view is pretty sweet to behold too.  :D
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #131 on: November 07, 2008, 09:40:59 PM »
gawwwwd....  8) where's that blushing smilie?

ok, pics, pics, pics


« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 08:41:31 AM by Kit »
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
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Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #132 on: November 07, 2008, 09:54:29 PM »
Typical, shiny bike and dirty jeans ;D
Hey whats that wee pouch under the ehadlight?
A drag shute or your lunch box?
Good to see them tires are finally getting some wear, Mickey can keep the butt shot, we can see you smiling behind your visor and that says heaps. :D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #133 on: November 07, 2008, 09:56:21 PM »
hehehe. She's still smiling.  8)
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #134 on: November 07, 2008, 10:17:58 PM »
well done, have a JD&coke on me ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline martino1972

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #135 on: November 08, 2008, 03:15:41 AM »
i still vote for the butt picture..... :D :D :D :D :D :D

i remember when i got my bike going for the first time,could'nt stop smiling ,and i still have that several thousand miles later i still smile when i ride my bike..
that's so cool to see and know that kit's can ride her bike now,wish i was living closer,we could go for a nice trip ...

Marti, I want you to know, I like you an awful lot, but guys have said far less and left wearing their drinks on their shirts.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=36933.0  (my bobber)

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #136 on: November 08, 2008, 09:52:48 AM »
WTF?!??!

So I got my bike warmed up, we were on our way to breakfast, pulled out of our parking spot...
then she died.  Starter cranked real, real slow, until it just stopped cranking altogether.  headlight was still bright at that point. 

got it started dumping the clutch downhill a couple times, but it ran real boggy and low, then died.

so... guess breakfast is at home.  gotta wait 'til my legs work again, then push that #$%* back up the damn hill to our parking spot.

any answers?  I'm getting sick of this #$%*.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #137 on: November 08, 2008, 11:45:59 AM »
Sounds like battery problem again Kits.
If you jump start from Mickey's bike (or steal her battery) ;D does the bike start right up?
This would tell you if the battery is discharged.
If same result as your battery ie: engine cranks slow, then electrical problem or something mechanical that is stopping engine turning over freely.
My 650 hates having a slightly discharged battery.
When you say you warmed the bike up, do you mean you left it idling for a while?
These bikes only maintain the battery at over 3000 revs, idle is usually around 1000 to 1500 so warmup will warm motor but discharge battery.
I tend to start bike then ride off slowly until engine is warmed, then give it heaps.
As I said, jump start bike, if she fires right up then it's something to do with battery, if she wont fire up, back to drawing board.
You could also try charging battery then taking "D" for a ride and see if bike performs well...........Hush.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #138 on: November 08, 2008, 12:16:11 PM »
well, she started right up after sitting in the rain for about half an hour, which is pointing toward just not starting when hot or warm again.  and when I say 'started right up' I mean just a slight hit on the starter button, the starter cranked like a champ again, and off she went. (which was good, because we did *not* want to push it back up the hill...

going to check the grounds to the starter, check the cable going to the starter, and put in the starter motor I just finished cleaning up, to see if it improves.  She needs to warm up 5-8 minutes before I can really ride her... doesn't take a lot of throttle before that, but it is around 45-50 degrees (10C) and these are, theoretically cold blooded...
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #139 on: November 08, 2008, 12:22:37 PM »
It's a good thing I have a multimeter and know how to use it.  :D

Off to switch starters (kit cleaned up the spare), let her warm up and then see if she won't start again. grrrrrr.
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #140 on: November 08, 2008, 12:48:36 PM »
I think we'll check the coils while we are there too. Anyone know what ohms range they should be in?
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #141 on: November 08, 2008, 01:10:47 PM »
Sorry Mickey my useless Clymer manual only says "to test coils lay known good spark plug on head and press starter, a fat blue spark should occur".
Nothing about Ohms range but that is a pretty basic test for coil condition.
The fact that bike started after leaving for a while suggests (to me anyway) that the battery was discharged and leaving it gave it a chance to recover.
To check if battery is problem before digging any deeper do some real simple (Hush) tests.
1) start bike......bike starts that's good ;D
2) turn headlight on and indicators, now start bike....bike starts thats good ;D.....bike does not crank over, that's bad..... :(
I'm still pretty sure Kits problems are battery/charging related.
These bikes hate having low charge.
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline MickeyX

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #142 on: November 08, 2008, 01:29:36 PM »
Yeah, we've done the spark plug to engine case test many times throughout this build. Will check it again. It just seems to only happen when the bike is warm. That made me think that the coils are heating up and losing contact. Plenty of juice to start 'er up when it's cold though. Hmmmmm. Aggravating. Headlight and signals are bright, get brighter when revved up... a good sign. No way to turn off the lights. They come on with the key.
1969 CL350 Scrambler... almost done!!! Well, until something else goes wrong. :)
2006 HD 883 Sportster, stock. No use changing it, it's still gonna be a Harley.

Offline Soos

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #143 on: November 08, 2008, 03:50:06 PM »
Good luck.

Have you tried simply ubplugging and plugging in connectors yet?

I had a poroblem with mine misfiring, then not running when 1 friggin' connector would get wet.
I could ride it somewhere but at idle it wanted to run on 2 or 3 cylinders is what it seemed like.
if it died while the connector was wet, it wouldn't start, or if it did, i would 2 or 3 cylinder ride it home.

Finally found it, cleaned the contacts, applied liberal amounts of di-electric grease to keep the water and air out, and never had the problem since.
If i remember right it was a connector going from the timing plate to the wiring harness.
4 prong bugger (on my '79) on the right hand or the bike, near the battery about knee level.
Mind you where the battery is on a '79 frame is where the airbox cover is on a '81-'82 frame.



I hate electrical gremlins.

Some I found, and eliminated the problem.
Some I have no idea why it works, but it does.
I have a "mystery" switch for example.
I had problems at one time with starting the bike, so to save battery power i hooked a switch to cut the ground for the headlight and turn signal lights.
I switch 'em off and I could crank the motor longer before needing to recharge the battery.
carb problems, electrical ignition probs... can't remember why i did this anymore.

I tried removing the switchwhen i was done, and I started blowing fuses.
I put it back in, and left it on, and now everything is just fine.
However If i'm worried about the bike getting snagged, i switch it to off, no running, turn or headlights. Hopefully a thief would get pulled over before he got too far.

Don't ask me why, or how it works though... at this point I don't care, it works.
I understand electrical systems like I understand voodoo majic.
Just enough to look at it and think about whether it's real or an illusion.

l8r
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Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #144 on: November 08, 2008, 05:50:08 PM »
ok, so I threw in the starter I took apart and cleaned (from the thread "cb650 hot-start issue") and though when warm it cranks slower, this starter motor seems to spin a little faster/more easily, so it'll crank a little more slowly, but still fire up.  The one I was using, on inspection, seemed to have a LOT of 'slop' in the armature shaft- could move it in/out a good 1/4", and when 'out', it didn't seem to really 'catch' inside. not sure what that means- I'll tear it apart as soon as I have some free time. ;)

The cable going to the starter from the starter solenoid (that's the metal thing beneath the main fuse, rght?) shows very, very low resistance, and continuity (yay?)  so that's good... just not quite sure why it's not getting the juice it should be sometimes when it's warm. 

Mick and I took our bikes out for a spin, to the little honda shop a few miles away, and then hit dinner on the way home.  SO. Much. FUN!  OMG!  I'll be so happy when I get that little windscreen, though.  ;)

found my exhaust leak, off header 4 (far right as you're sitting on the bike)  gotta figure out how to seat that right... anyone have any tricks?  I'm having a bear of a time getting these exhaust pipes to seat right without leaks.


"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline mystic_1

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #145 on: November 08, 2008, 07:19:21 PM »
Mick and I took our bikes out for a spin, to the little honda shop a few miles away, and then hit dinner on the way home.  SO. Much. FUN!  OMG!  I'll be so happy when I get that little windscreen, though.  ;)


Glad you're finally getting some payback from all your hard work.  Enjoy, you earned it!



found my exhaust leak, off header 4 (far right as you're sitting on the bike)  gotta figure out how to seat that right... anyone have any tricks?  I'm having a bear of a time getting these exhaust pipes to seat right without leaks.

You should be tightening the exhaust at the head before attaching the rear hangers.  Thread the hangers to support the rear of the pipe but leave them loose, then tighten at the head, then tighten rear hangers.  This allows the pipe to position itself when you tighten at the head.  If you can't get a good seal then perhaps your exhaust gaskets crushed down crooked, you may need new ones.

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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #146 on: November 08, 2008, 07:28:18 PM »
yeah... that and I'm having some problems with the little metal things that pair up and go under the metal clamp that holds the whole deal on.  Those got crushed in an awful way by the PO putting them on wrong (I'm assuming?) at least once, so now they don't want to hold together right (as in, they're kind of coming apart) and are a little bent up.  What do they do, and which end goes toward the head- the thick end or the thinner end?
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Soos

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #147 on: November 09, 2008, 01:40:38 AM »
I have fought getting these in before as well.

When i install new exhaust gaskets, I dab a little thick black grease in the back to hold them in place while putting on the exhaust initially.
Smells funny the first few times you really heat up the pipes though.


You can optionally get a small headed really long flathead, and wiggle it around the OD of the exhaust pipe to center the gaskets before tightening down with ratchet/wrench.


Other than that... new gaskets make a world of difference for seating and eliminating exhaust leaks.


l8r
-=≡ Soos ≡=-
Just think to yourself what would Alowishus Devander Abercrombie do?
"Brix will be shat by your neighbors." - schwebel
(61mm)652cc 1979 cb650

Offline Hush

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #148 on: November 09, 2008, 03:03:09 AM »
Bad description Kits but I know what you are talking about, the half moons that go inside the head and are then held in place by the finned header bracket on each pipe.
The answer is: the folded over/bent end goes into the head, the other end with sharper edges slide into a small lip inside the finned bracket.

Here's something that might help in future, I use it all the time for referalls.
http://cosky0.tripod.com/id2.html

I use exhaust gasket goo (comes in a tube sets like brick) if I can't get a decent seal, you need to make sure the old crush gaskets are gone, they look like part of the head after a while.
Have a good dig around with a small sharp screwdriver to make sure an old set aint still in there.
Mystic is right on the money with his idea of lightly attaching the rears (just enough to hold them up) then concentrating on the header pipes, go back once you are happy with headers and tighten rears.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 03:13:31 AM by Hush »
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: 1980 CB650c Rest-o by a total newbie
« Reply #149 on: November 09, 2008, 10:34:34 AM »
made sure I got rid of the old crush washers when the top o' the head was off.  Bought a set of those exhaust collars off fleabay, they all look to be in like-new condition (i.e. not bent to hell like mine) 

so the thick part goes toward the head, the thin part slides into the little finned collars that hold the whole shebang together, right?

fixing that exhaust leak could help me warm up a little quicker, who knows?  I'm actually anxious to get to that oil pan and see what all's living in there.  :D

I can do that without taking the engine out of the frame, right? pleeeaaaase tell me I can. ;)

"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale