Author Topic: For the conspiracy theorists here  (Read 12479 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rocking-M

  • Guest
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2008, 03:48:18 PM »
my favorite simple minded solution for the ills of the world is appoint a politician at random to be king, for a year then wish all our sins, problems, whatever on him, her and hang them at the end of the year, there bye getting rid of our problems. I'm not sure what the other miscreants were on about.
Bill.

I like this idea...  ;D

Quaint and violent at the same time.  8)

Hey, I like this the best of any governmental plan I've heard yet. Can we start with King Bush?  ;D ;D

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,432
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2008, 08:42:03 PM »
Terry I get a news feed from Oz everyday and just occasionally hear (read) simple minded crap coming out of it, I don't really think its country dependent but I don't want you to feel left out.
Bill.

So, what's the definition of "Simple Minded Crap", Bill? Is that an accepted generic term, or your own? Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Uncle Ernie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,613
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2008, 09:40:05 PM »
I got to thinking today about what a nation of sheep we are (tempted but eschewing references to certain of our members from another world region).  First the majority follows the one who preaches fear and loathing while offering protection and vengeance.  Now the flock is following a bus named HOPE but no one seems to notice that no one is at the wheel. Bald tires.  No engine.  The only reason it's rolling is that someone forgot to set the brake.  It's like all those maroons who followed Forest Gump.

If I vote, it will be for Ralph.  I don't really like him either, but at least he can't win.
Dude- your 8 layers are showing!

Offline techy5025

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 886
  • 1969 Diecast and Sandcast 750's
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2008, 09:51:10 PM »
.....

If I vote, it will be for Ralph.  I don't really like him either, but at least he can't win.


Good one Ernie!  ;D

Jim
........
1969 750 K0 (Reborn)
1969 Sandcast 750 K0 (Reborn)
2003 CBR600F4I
........

Offline Klark Kent

  • You are in serious trouble if you think I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration don't fail me now
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2008, 10:02:29 PM »
[youtube=425,350]90ELleCQvew[/youtube]

-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,432
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2008, 10:43:17 PM »
Ah, I wondered when somebody would roll out that great Aussie actor, Peter Finch, in his final performance............  ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Demon67

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2008, 03:41:20 AM »
Terry I give you *Businesswomen question 2020 panel mix* from ABC news from tues 26 feb afternoon edition some lady is claiming Rudd didn't take into account having enough women for a panel of thinkers and that to me is self evident, why is this news, the woman i believe is over 18 and has to deal with wheels before  and the news person throwing up their hands and pursing their lips saying see something new.
As far as simple minded crap goes its a combination of generic and my own tiredness at seeing the wheel being re invented endlessly each time with less wit.
I really should only go near a computer when I'm cheerful
Bill.

Offline Demon67

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2008, 05:23:49 AM »
DammitDan and Rocking M its called the sacrificial king rite and with a little thought and good will, possibly a little tweaking, it could spread through out the world.
Bill.

Rocking-M

  • Guest
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2008, 06:22:02 AM »
DammitDan and Rocking M its called the sacrificial king rite and with a little thought and good will, possibly a little tweaking, it could spread through out the world.
Bill.

Hey, you know after a few years of this sacrificial king thing just think, we may just run out of wanna be leaders.

As to the current election, I'm writing in Ron Paul. Last election I wrote in Thomas Jefferson cause a
I figured a dead Statesman would be a better President than a live politician.

Offline Demon67

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2008, 06:48:50 AM »
Damm Rocking M I was too transparent you've seen through to my secret agenda, I'll have too try another tack to conquer the World.
Bill.

Offline JLeather

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 775
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2008, 07:03:50 AM »
I shouldn't even weigh in on this one, because the conversation seems to have turned to a civil tone, but I don't believe the WTC was collapsed using explosives.  We analyzed it in my engineering class and came to the following interesting conclusions.

For starters, the WTC was a totally different structure compared to other steel buildings.  All the supports are at the edges.  For anyone who's ever been there the windows were really skinny because of the steel beams that ran vertically and pretty close together.  I watched an interview with the original builder who described the building as a mesh that was hollow in the middle.  This was to allow more floor-space without so many vertical supporting beams like a typical steel skyscraper.

Now, it is true that the building was designed to withstand an "accidental" hit from a plane.  but the largest plane at the time was I think 1/2 or 1/3 the size of the planes that actually struck the WTC and carried less fuel.  The building was simply outclassed by the size of the new planes.

I too have seen the pieces at NIST (I live like 20 minutes away) and the majority of them failed due to over-stress and not heat.  Here's what happened.  The building is almost entirely supported by the outside edges (think how string a beer can is in compression top-to-bottom but if you squeeze the sides it crumples easily).  The second plane almost missing was actually a boon to the terrorists.  The near miss caused it to hit on more of a corner, this is similar to kicking the legs out from under a table.  This loss of a support, combined with moderate weakening of the steel from the fuel fires, caused the upper floors to collapse onto lower ones.  This collapse over-stressed the rest of the structure.  It collapsed downwards because that's the direction of the falling upper floors which ltierally drove the bottom half of each tower into the ground.

The windows blew out because of trapped air.  Furthermore, given the steel-mesh structure of the building you can't implode it like a controlled demolition.  Those controlled demolitions take the foundation out of a building.  The foundation for the towers is several stories underground.  If they had actually detonate the foundation you wouldn't have even heard it.

The remaing tower fell because it shares a foundation with the bigger ones.  There was a freaking subway station under the towers.  A huge underground shopping mall.  When the larger two towers collapsed it severely destabilized the whole block.  It was really like one large building with a bunch of towers shooting up from it.

To put it plainly and simply, the terrorists hitting the WTC towers with two planes cause the collapse.  If it had been just the first plane they might have stood, if the second had hit a side and not a corner it might have been different, etc.  But it was the planes that caused the collapse.

*deep breath*

Now, that being said I do strongly oppose the NAU, NAFTA, etc, etc.  I think that the media and money controls too much of the freedoms in this country.  I do not believe GW Bush orchestrated 9/11, but I do believe he used it opportunistically to pass a lot of scary laws.  I am a registered Republican, but I am not a supporter of GW.

Here's a semi-rhetorical question.  How can so many liberals claim that GW is the devil on earth, orchestrating countless conspiracies to control everything, and then in the same breath call him too stupid to know what's going on?  Pick a side.  I think he used 9/11 to pass an agenda, and I believe the he truly believed he was doing the right thing (however wrong it may have actually been).  The war is a totally different topic, but on the WTC collapse I rest my case.  Planes and terrorists (foreign terrorists, BTW).

Offline sandcastcb750

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 394
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2008, 07:13:18 AM »
WTC wasn't the first building hit by a plane in NYC.....

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1940s/a/empirecrash.htm

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,521
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2008, 09:27:44 AM »
and it wasnt the last
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Klark Kent

  • You are in serious trouble if you think I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration don't fail me now
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2008, 11:26:14 AM »
that must have been an interesting class.  i am curious if there where students who questioned the official explanation and if so how they where treated by the teacher and other students.  where their concerns easily dismissed?

i also wanted to post because the information you provided lacks a certain completeness. 

most notably that the towers only had exterior support columns.  While they had several times the usual amount of exterior columns, they also had about 50 columns in the center. 

secondly, that building seven went down because of sharing a foundation.  The towers' supports where anchored into the bedrock.  The planet.  the basement structure was never destroyed and was able to be tied back and resupported during the seach and rescue.  It is a creative way of explaining building seven's collapse, and I have to hand it to your professor as most people who support the official explanation choose to simply ignore that it fell too.

I am not posting these things as fact, just as a counterpoint to the claims made by JLeather. 

happy truth seeking y'all
-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline firecracker

  • At being Shameless, I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,080
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2008, 11:56:45 AM »
And now for something completely different:

Francis Bacon

The real Shakespeare?  Editor of the King James Bible?

Both?!?

YOU decide...

 8)
Life is like a game of cards.  The hand you are dealt represents determinism.  The way you play it is free will.
  -  Jawaharal Nehru

Offline Klark Kent

  • You are in serious trouble if you think I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration don't fail me now
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2008, 12:09:00 PM »
i suppose that is relevant- since we are talking about national symbols here...
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline Cvillechopper

  • Is just pretending to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • If not for my failures I'd never know my limits
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2008, 12:18:14 PM »
i suppose that is relevant- since we are talking about national symbols here...


No. No. No.  Francis Bacon.  only 1 degree of separation from Kevin.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.  Aristotle

Offline firecracker

  • At being Shameless, I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,080
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2008, 12:39:15 PM »
Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill ya!

[youtube=425,350]jTUruCv4Qi4[/youtube]
Life is like a game of cards.  The hand you are dealt represents determinism.  The way you play it is free will.
  -  Jawaharal Nehru

Offline Cvillechopper

  • Is just pretending to be an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,184
  • If not for my failures I'd never know my limits
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2008, 12:42:10 PM »
That was on last night while I was up pacing (didn't want to keep the missus up tossing and turning in bed).  It's a classic!
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.  Aristotle

Offline JLeather

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 775
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2008, 12:42:35 PM »
The center colums were primarily for the support of each floor, not the building itself.  They lacked strengthening from a side-loading direction.  Again, the beer-can analogy.  In compression, true compression, the can can support the weight of a person.  But, it only requires a few ounces of side-loading to destroy it.  If a person is standing on a beer can and you poke it from the side it collapses (straight down, too).  The vertical supports on the outside were the main strength of the building.  They were reinforced from the sides and the gaps in them were staggered so there wasn't a single height where they could all be sheared.  The beams in the middle were only as tall as each floor, and at each floor they were all jointed.  Pretty much no side-loading stability.  In your own drawing, in fact, you can see how the outside beams are all tied to each other at many points between each floor.  This makes them strong, but also makes them extrememly dependent on each other.  If one moves sideways, the other moves sideways, and so on.

As for my class, the teacher was a professed Aetheist who cracked off color jokes pretty much every day.  The class was almost always a free-exchange of ideas (it was one of my first or second year engineering classes.  Beams and trusses and such).  I believe the whole point of the class was to question things.  However, being as it was no more than 3 years after the fact most of the nation was still in shock and acting very patriotic.  There wasn't anyone I can remember who openly called it a conspiracy.

As for the foundation, I cannot believe that such a massive collapse on a shared foundation does not destabilize it.  I have not seen the plans for the foundation personally, however.  Simply because the foundation was able to be shored and searched does not mean it was still functioning as originally built.  There is a lot of inter-connectivity between all the structures on that site.  Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned from that.

Offline Klark Kent

  • You are in serious trouble if you think I'm an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,463
  • Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration don't fail me now
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2008, 01:17:59 PM »
Wasn't really trying to argue those specific points, and forgot to cite my info.  These where things left out of your lengthy explanation and I researched and found them to fill in the gaps.  I think in the future i will cite everything and encourage others to do so.  at the very least it will direct the personal attacks at the source of the information- not the poster regurgitator (me and you)

all info posted by me (including the 'drawing') was taken from this article.  which is one of those let's just ignore building seven type deals- but still contradicts what you put forth as your professor's explanation. 


As for my class, the teacher was a professed Aetheist who cracked off color jokes pretty much every day.  The class was almost always a free-exchange of ideas (it was one of my first or second year engineering classes.  Beams and trusses and such).  I believe the whole point of the class was to question things.  However, being as it was no more than 3 years after the fact most of the nation was still in shock and acting very patriotic.  There wasn't anyone I can remember who openly called it a conspiracy.
one question though:
if the point of the class was to question things and no one did, did the godless jokester fail you all? 
 ;D

-KK

-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline DammitDan

  • Prodigal Son
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,470
  • It lives!
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2008, 01:25:44 PM »
I think in the future i will cite everything and encourage others to do so.  at the very least it will direct the personal attacks at the source of the information- not the poster regurgitator (me and you)

I second the motion!
CB750K4

Offline Uncle Ernie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,613
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2008, 01:44:50 PM »
" How can so many liberals claim that GW is the devil on earth, orchestrating countless conspiracies to control everything, and then in the same breath call him too stupid to know what's going on? "

Not him- the people he works for.  Like you, a lot of Republicans are pretty sick of his company.  Finally.
Dude- your 8 layers are showing!

eldar

  • Guest
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2008, 02:45:06 PM »
OK how about this. What do you all think about the power plant going down and others having difficulties in florida? I could see 1 or maybe 2 spread out over a couple days.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,432
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: For the conspiracy theorists here
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2008, 07:07:32 PM »
This salty popcorn is making me thirsty again, but before I walk up to the liquor store, I just had a thought about the notion that the WTC towers weren't designed to withstand a hit from a modern aircraft?

By the early 1970's when the first tower was completed, the Jumbo Jet (Boeing 747) was a common sight in the skies all over the US, and even the Concorde was flying by then, not to mention military transport planes like  Galaxy Star Lifters, big bombers like B52's, etc etc, so I'm wondering why the buildings couldn't withstand smaller domestic aircraft?

Ok, I can't feel the tip of my tongue any more, so I'm off to get some more booze! Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)