Topic: 1972 CB450 "Supersport" NOW SHE REALLY LIVES!!!!!

[dagersh]

Hi All,

I hope it would be alright to post my project of a 1972 CB450.  I am a SOHC4 guy normally, but I have absolutely no confidence about tearing into engines and carbs.  This bike came available local to my upstate NY home, so I jumped on it.  I plan on redoing the whole bike with more of a British flair to it.  I was able to source a very nice tank with good chrome and kneepads and a LH sidecover.  The sidecover resembles those found on the Black Bombers, as opposed to the more sculpted covers that came in late ‘68/’69.  So far, a RH has been a real PITA to locate (any help would be greatly appreciated).

The bike starts up with the kick only and I was able to ride it around my road in order to see what I was dealing with.  The LH muffler is missing about 4 inches from its middle (jury-rigged together), so it is really loud.  The bike has great power for its size, and brakes as good as any of my 750/550’s (same units).   I was very impressed with it.  So, here is what I started with.  The only change from how I picked it up was the removal of a jury-rigged petcock and fuel line system.

































After removing the tank and torn seat, the frame and wiring harness look to be in pretty decent shape.  The wheels and spokes need attention, but are solid, and the tires are near new.  With the ’68 Tank and side cover the bike takes on a much lower character.  I think some superbike bars will have to be in its future, as the stocks just don’t look right.  I do not like this seat, as it sits too close to the tank and obscures its rear line.  I have an idea about using a 1976 CB550F NOS seat that I have laying around that came with my ’75.  As you know, the ’76 seats were brown, and I found an excellent original 1975 black one.
I don’t have a pic of it yet – but the 550F seat looks amazing sitting on the 450.  I think modifications to the seat pan will work out great, and look as if it were a stock installation. 

As for all the other work planned, I want to make it cosmetically sound – the engine cases are really oxidized.  It seems to be leaking some oil, although I suspect that it is coming from a really corroded Tach cable – replacement 500T item on the way.  The front brakes work, but I will tear it down and rebuild the system – if its really shot, otherwise just give it a really good cleaning and new fluid.  I will replace the steering head bearings with tapered ones, and replace the chain and sprockets

As I can only work on the bike on weekends, I will update with more ASAP.

Gersh

[DarkRider]

Quite the dramatic change in look with just those simple mods..

[dagersh]

Hey DR,

Thanks, I will get some photos with the other seat on.  It really takes on a whole other look with it.

[Hush]

As rare as rocking horse sh#t these bikes, I can only remember seeing one locally in all my years riding and restoring so you have something very special happening there.
Keep us up to date with the project.........Hush.

[dagersh]

I Hope everyone had a great Holiday Weekend!

I did not get to work on the 450 as much as I had planned - Good Friends and PBR got in the way 

Finally on Monday Night I got to perform a little garage therapy.  I got the new Tach Cable installed and replaced the corroded muffler.  I also got a new stock petcock for the '68 tank, as the one from Sirius Consolidated just would not work positionwise.  It was a nice unit though...  This weekend I hope to pull apart the 550F seat and work on adapting it to the 450 mounting positions.  I really need to move Upstate permanantly!

Pics:



with 550 Seat




another angle




From the top - I think the bar angle makes the seat look crooked - it's not.




New Tach Cable




New LH Muffler

Gersh

[DarkRider]

Looks great man...starting to look like a bomber...

[dagersh]

OK, its been a while.....

I have been futzing about with the bike, but garage construction and life have seriously eaten into progress.  As I got deeper into the bike, I realized how much is needed due to a PO not being quite diligent in the care of this bike.  i know some of you can relate........

In an attempt to Synch the Carbs, I realized the throttle cable is completely toasted, and getting a new one has been a little frustrating.  The 450 has a cable that splits into two cables as it gets towards the Carbs.  I found one that did not fit after the split, even though it was advertised as a stock cable.  However, I will deal with that Ebay Seller after I confirm that it does not match the other "stock" cable I got from Crotchrocket.com.

As a positive Ebay experience, I found and scored a RH 1968 Side Cover.  Can I just say.....  HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!

This past weekend I had the honor of realizing just how good an Impact Driver is.  I replaced all the soft Phillips head bolts with beautiful Stainless Allen Heads on the left hand side.  I could totally understand how the original bolts could strip, and with the Impact Driver I got the originals out with a little hammering (and PB Blaster) and no headaches!  Get one in your tool box NOW!!!!!!!

I did have an issue with the PO leaving a hex bolt in a very inconvenient place.  How he was able to get it tight is still a mystery to me.  I was able to get it out after Drilling, attempting to cut a slot for a screwdriver, etc.  By luck, I was able to get it out using a normal 10cm wrench, but I don't understand how....

anyways...  here are some pics...




the hex nut before removal





Getting naked...





This was nasty...  I have cleaned it pretty well.  The Seals were very loose in their seats.  I pushed them in, and I am hoping they will stay....  and not leak.  The Seals were at the Clutch activator input rod and at the shifter rod.





I pulled the sprocket cover apart, cleaned and re-greased everything.  It  gave me a good idea of how the clutch is engaged and released.



So, stupid question.  If I want to replace the grease zerk for the clutch actuator...  how do I do it?  I know its been done for the swing arm.  What kind of grease gun should I be looking for if I don't replace it?

I hope to get a bunch of work done on the long weekend with lots of pics....

Stay tuned Bat-Campers!

Gersh

[kghost]

Great bikes...I have one somewhere...

[dagersh]

Kghost - you are the man!

So as an update, I got her back running this weekend.  I am quite impressed with the the get up and go this bike has.  Right now its running K&N Pods with stock jetting and pipes.  I just ordered stainless Velocity Stacks that have a fine Brass Screen over the openings.  They will be sitting behind the 1968 Side covers, but I think they will have a nice Bling factor when the covers come off.  I am also thinking of getting BCR's peashooters and going with larger jets.

Sorry no pictures.  I did however replace most of the sidecover screws with the the beautiful and functional stainless allen head bolts from Stainlesscycle (big props here!).  Once again - long live the Impact Driver!  I also replaced the toasted throttle cable with a stock item from Crotchrocket.com. 

The one problem I am having is the removal of the header from the exhaust pipe.  Everything is loose, but I canot get the joint to come apart.  Worse comes to worse I will remove everything as a whole so that I can replace the bottom 4 screws on the RH engine cover with the Stainless items.  If anyone can tell me why the header and pipe are being stubborn, it would be greatly appreciated!  Anyway, I did leave it with copious amounts of PB Blaster until I can get back to it this weekend.

I will update with more pics of a running bike this weekend as well.

Thanks all!

[kghost]

Keep us posted....sorry no idea of the top of my head why the pipe won't part.

[HondaMan]

About those velocity stacks: the CV pistons in those carbs have very close tolerances, with no seals, and the dirt that comes from using open velocity stacks (i.e., no filters) will cause the bores of the carbs to score and damage the vacuum pistons. I saw many a 450 go to the junkyard because of this, especially in racing circles. My two cents: use filters, not stacks with screens.

I loved my 450. Those '66-'68 tanks were tops for crouch racing, too, with the knee grips! Stoplight-to-stoplight, those bikes ruled the summer nights until the CB750 came out, running heads-up with the British 650s of the day. The Nortons and Harleys could beat them, unless the 450 was geared down: then it held some real surprises!

[dagersh]

Thanks guys!

Kghost - hopefully the PB Blaster will have loosened it up some.  I seem to remember that I ran into the same problem trying to remove what was left of the left of the Port side muffler.  I will most likely have an extra set of hands this weekend, so maybe brute force x2 will solve the problem!

Hondaman - I must take your recommendations to heart!  The bike was running with K&N's, but the fit was very strange, especially on the starboard side.  The Filter rubs the battery box, and just will not stay on the carb body.

Would it make any sense to introduce a foam filter into the Velocity stack?  I am not married to them, and I definitely want to keep this bike as a runner.

[HondaMan]

Hondaman - I must take your recommendations to heart!  The bike was running with K&N's, but the fit was very strange, especially on the starboard side.  The Filter rubs the battery box, and just will not stay on the carb body.

Would it make any sense to introduce a foam filter into the Velocity stack?  I am not married to them, and I definitely want to keep this bike as a runner.

I seem to remember some foams that would fit like a bubble over the face of velocity stacks from S&S, back in the day, like a sock. I have no idea where to look for those today, though. There are K&Ns I've seen for other bikes, with velocity stacks inside the filter, that solves the flow problem nicely while providing protection. It seems to me that the air horn on the 450 carbs was real close in size to the individual air filters found on the Bonneville 650 twins, too. I think there was a slight difference in diameter that riders used to fill in by cutting off a strip or two of a bike tire's inner tube, slipping it over the carb, then installing the filter. There was also a velocity stack for these that had a slight angle to it, so it could be turned around that nearby frame. They were kinda cheesy, made in Japan: we called them the "trumpet stacks" because they looked like some sort of musical instrument. They connected with a real short rubber tube, like the one going to the engine.

Finally, there was also a "top hat" from K&N and a knockoff of the K&N gauze filter, both of which fit right over the lip of the velocity stacks from several manufacturers, S&S included, with the wire mesh snapping on much like the lid of a fast-food paper cup, and an O-ring around the inside. I would see these on 450s during "normal" riding, and they were often removed for the "Saturday Night Street Fights" that were so popular in the day (before cops got pushed by the public to stop renegades like us  ).

[bill440cars]

       I really do need to look around more, when I get the chance. Not sure how I missed this one, since I am such an avid admirer of the 450 DOHC bikes. Got some myself, that are in line to be worked on, as time and funds permit. I had the opportunity to ride a new 68' that a buddy had picked up. That was a running son of a gun, I can tell you.

       As has been said, keep us posted and include photos, when you can. Doing good so far.

[dagersh]

Thanks Guys!

HM - I will do some research and see if I can find anything.  Like I said, I am not married to them, just like the Bling! 

As promised, more photos!

I was able to work a bit on the bike and finished installing the SS Bolts.  Lots of anti-seize was used!  I had to remove the Head pipes and mufflers as a unit as I think age has locked that joint for all eternity!

Also, the PO has neglected to reinstall a couple of gaskets - specifically the alternator gasket on the LH side, so there is a small, but persistent drip coming from there.  However, considering that the bolts around the sprocket cover were missing, and the bike completely pissed oil every time the clutch lever was squeezed, it does not mark its territory that much anymore!




RH (Clutch) Side cover SS Bolts






LH SS Bolts and oil leak from the alternator cover





PITA Header Muffler joint!  Heat and PB did nothing...  Ah well, BCR units are in the future.





Patience and Persistence got the RH K&N Back on tight.  It did not look like it would be such a struggle...





Another view - anyone want to comment on my fuel hose routing?  It seems to work, but I have not put a lot of miles on yet.....





New Throttle Cable installed - ONLY USE HONDA CABLES!!!  Or at least be real positive of your measurements!  Ask me how I know!





Coming together nicely!  Never mind the clutter!





Money Shot!





Finally - the elusive RH Side cover has been located and received!!!!!


I now want to work on adapting the seat to the hinges on the frame.  If that does not work, I think I will just go with HD Velcro.  But I think it would be a fun and educational mod.  Also, I want to trim the rear fender a bit and replace the taillight unit with a early '70's Moto Guzzi Round unit that will look much less bulky.

When I am able to finish up my shop space, I will start the disassembly of the bike for cosmetic restoration as I am really pleased with the system functions and overall performance of the bike.

[HondaMan]

Lookin' good!
On those fuel hoses: you may wish to shorten then up a bit. A continuous-as-practical downslope always helps fuel them at higher RPM.

[dagersh]

Thanks HM, I will do that.

[dagersh]

I got a little time to work on the bike this weekend inbetween the Halloween parties.  Unfortunately, I forgot my camera charger, so no pics until after this weekend.  Fortunately, I was able to get the bike registered and I hope to take it for a nice long ride this weekend.

I was able to replace more of the stock Phillips head bolts with the Stainless gear.  Stainlesscycles really gives you a complete set!  I won't be able to use everything until the engine comes out of the bike at some point in the future.  But man, what an improvement!  ANd they will look really sharp when the cases are cleaned and polished.  Once again, if you are thinking of getting a set DO IT!!!!!  And once again kudos to the inventor of the impact driver!  My Master Mechanic is falling apart, and completely mushrooming on the striking end (as wise man once said "I am not weathly enough to afford cheap tools"), so I got myself a Craftsman which I will use when the MM finally succumbs - which won't be very long.

I was also able to replace my starter motor with a new bench tested one.  However, I am pretty sure my solenoid is shot, so I might not have needed to do that.  However, the PO did say he was pretty sure the motor was shot as well...  more educational endeavors for Gersh and his trusty Multimeter   Question on this:  The solenoid is common to all CB, CL and SL models from 350 up through the SOHC 750's.  Is there a replacement solenoid that could be purchased at NAPA, Tractor Supply or from a modern model that a dealer might have in stock? 

Also, this weekend I am also going to replace the gasket between the Alternator Cover and the Crankcase Cover.  Should I apply anything to the gasket itself?  It does not look like there was ever any kind of adhesive, as both surfaces are very clean, just presently missing the gasket.

Thanks for all the previous input and attention to my project.

Gersh

[tbpmusic]

  Question on this:  The solenoid is common to all CB, CL and SL models from 350 up through the SOHC 750's.  Is there a replacement solenoid that could be purchased at NAPA, Tractor Supply or from a modern model that a dealer might have in stock? 

Also, this weekend I am also going to replace the gasket between the Alternator Cover and the Crankcase Cover.  Should I apply anything to the gasket itself?  It does not look like there was ever any kind of adhesive, as both surfaces are very clean, just presently missing the gasket.

No automotive-type replacement that I'm aware of - you may try lawn tractor stuff, they're usually 12 volts and handle approximately the same current. And there are always plenty of them (stock solenoids) on EBay.

As for the gasket, it should be safe to use a judicious amount of silicon on that side - there are no oil passages or anything on the left side there.
Pay particular attention to where the alternator wires pass through the cover - that leaks on a LOT of 450's. It has a rectangular rubber grommet on it - at least put silicon there.
That spot, as well as the bogus chain-oiler thingy in the end of the countershaft, probably explains the horrible mess under your countershaft cover.
A lot of guys actually completely remove the chain oiler thing and just plug the hole with silicon - I think we're all capable of oiling our own chains.
I simply replaced my countershaft with a K1/K2 type, which had no chain oiler gizmo.

And please guys, no anti-silicon flamage, ok??

Sure wish I could find a nice K1 tank like that. I think a black K1 may be the most beautiful bike ever made, personally.

bill2

[dagersh]

Thanks for the heads up Bill!

[dagersh]

Wow, time flies....  I was able to finally sit down and work on the bike again.  I was able to start the strip down previously, but the bike has been sitting on my lift waiting for its attention.

I pulled the carbs and ordered kits for it, but the replacement jets bore no resemblance to the originals already present.  Since the bike ran good, I kept all the OEM jets after making sure they were totally clean.  I have a brand new blasting cabinet that I have been playing around with, and last weekend I stripped the carbs down and blasted them with soda.  I was very impressed with the results.  









When I started, these were pretty grungy as you can see from earlier pics.

[dagersh]

However, not letting well enough alone, I decided today to restrip them and boil them in a mixture of Simple Green and water.  





It looked pretty promising as the darker green stuff at the top looked like gunk coming out of the carbs.  Also, the boiling water bubbled up through the various orifices, so it looked like the carbs were getting a great cleaning.



The float bowl, with bubbles coming out of the drain - Know, nice pic!!!

[dagersh]

I then used a sonic toothbrush to scrub the Simple green all over the carb pieces



I then dried everything and used toothpaste with the sonic brush again



I was not happy with the results



It was much darker than after the blasting

[poomwah]

great project.  and I'm glad to see that the guys in here are open minded enough to allow non ohc non 4 cyls in here.  My wife is getting a cb500t and its going to get the cafe treatment, I was hoping I'd get to post it on here

[dagersh]

Poomwah - I am a fan of your current build, so definitely keep it coming and we'd love to see a cafe'd 500t, so long as you have pics!!!

anyway, on with my day:

comparison - left boiled, right only soda blasted





So I reblasted the carb pieces and then polished the carb top and Float Bowl







Now I am impressed!  The pics don't do it justice.  I guess I now have to do the other ones!

Here is the slide cover half polished.  I used a 3M polishing pad.  I forgot the name, but they are purple!  And, they work AWESOME



The Keihan portion has been hit, the made in Japan needs more.  The pic did not pick up the difference as well as I had hoped...

OK - all sanded



Porn!