Author Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video  (Read 873133 times)

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Offline MRieck

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1725 on: May 27, 2011, 09:04:53 AM »
Be sure to have your indicator parallel with the valve and resting on the retainer. It looks like the indicator tip is on the valve lash adjustmment screw. Hard to tell from the photo. ;)
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1726 on: May 27, 2011, 10:10:09 AM »
Be sure to have your indicator parallel with the valve and resting on the retainer. It looks like the indicator tip is on the valve lash adjustmment screw. Hard to tell from the photo. ;)
You are correct, its on the adjuster. I'll move it, and adjust to parallel. Thanks for the tips!
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1727 on: May 29, 2011, 08:26:52 PM »
We got the cam degreed today, yay! Here's the play by play. The instructions on the WEBCam website were actually very good, once you get going.  First, i bot a TDC tool from APE. Many here have explained how you can make one yourself. That's not what I'm good at, plus its a simple neat tool to own.

We bolted the degree wheel on the alternator side, using the stock alternator rotor bolt with spacers to take up the unused portion of the bolt.

MRieck says he uses a 20" wheel, mounted on the alternator side. With that diameter, he can face it towards the ignition side and read it. My little 7" disc is unreadable that way, so we had to mount it facing out, then run back and forth between the ignition side to turn the crank and the alternator side to read the wheel.  Less of a problem is you were doing it on a bench and not in the frame. We used the universal piece of coathanger wire as a pointer, curled a loop in the end of it and screwed it into a cover hole.

Following the instructions with the TDC tool screwed in it became very obvious how to find TDC. True TDC matched the 1-4 TDC mark on the advancer, so that was good.

Take those two readings and divide by 2, adjust the wheel to that number, remove the TDC tool, turn the engine to 0 on the wheel. This should = "T" on the advancer and it did.

Next set up the dial indicator on the intake valve. Arrange the pointer so it is in the same plane as the valve stem, and it touches the retainer, not the adjuster (per MRieck) to get a true reading.


Follow the instructions. I couldn't get the dial set to 0. My platform wasn't quite sturdy enough. But that's not a problem, I started at 3thou, wanted 50thou, so I just take it to 53thou.

The next step just about stalled me. You're supposed to turn the engine past the high point and stop 50thou before the base circle, without backing up. Well how can you know you are 50thou before something? Just trust the dial and pay attention. The base circle will read 3 thou, so stop at 53 thou. Piece of cake.
Do the same on the exhaust:

So I did the math, etc. The timing card said the lobe centerlines should be 107.5 each. Mine were 112.5 and 114. I don't think I could get them any closer. From reading other experiences, its not trying to duplicate the timing card numbers asmuch as duplicating them relatively. Don't think we could get much closer.

Purely by accident we started the process with the cam a little forward in the sprocket slot.

Had my centerlines been further off we wold have experimented with the position in the slot. As it was, we lucked out, locktited the bolts and torques it down.

Had to use a wobbly joint to get into the bolt, but it was straigheter than in the picture and straight enough for ourpurposes.

I'm sure this explanation leaves a lot to be desired, but no point in rewriting the WebCam instructions. It was just a few fuzzy points I had to work thru. I'll be happy to explain any thing further.

MRosso was stuck with visions of valves hitting pistons. Just thought I'd throw in these pics. My 1978 vintage Yoshimura 2 ring slipper pistons I used in a roadracer. S2 (.5 mm over) = 749cc. I used a huge bump RC cam. Turns out it was kissing the piston on the exhaust side. Bike ran several 4 hour WERA endurance races and sprint races. Cam was not degreed, but it ran like heck (real good). sometimes we're just lucky I guess.


The flash washed it out, but there is an "RSC" stamped on the side of the skirts. 

For posterity sake, I want to build an engine with these pistons, a real high rpm screamer and do it right.


« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 09:07:48 AM by MCRider »
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline popssss

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/29/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1728 on: May 29, 2011, 10:04:05 PM »
so nicely done and documented...you must be retired  ;)

I'd love to do my engine as nicely as you're doing yours.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/29/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1729 on: May 30, 2011, 12:33:58 PM »
so nicely done and documented...you must be retired  ;)

I'd love to do my engine as nicely as you're doing yours.
Not retired, but self employed. Which means I can work 12 hour days any day I want.   ;)

But I am at a time in my life I had hoped to get to. Where I could work on a project without having to thrash and get it done right now with a lot of compromises. Though I've done that in the past and the results were often enjoyable.

But my build theme with this has always been from the start to do, or try to do, the details that I'd known about but so often skipped in past build ups.

Since I've got a modern bike to ride, I'm taking more time, though its been a LOT more time than expected. The final roll out will be glorious, I hope.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/29/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1730 on: May 30, 2011, 06:25:24 PM »
Further details: As stated I think the goal is not to match the numbers on the timing card, though that would be nice. But relativity is desired. Time card duration at 50thou is 237 and 234°. My readings were 228 and 225°.  AS stated the Webcam lobe centers were 107.5° each. Mine were 114 in and 112.5 ex.   

Intake open and close are 11 BTDC and 46 ABDC. Mine were 19 BTDC and 29 ABDC. EX was 44.5 and 9.5. Mine were 44 and 1. These were the furthest from the Timing card. but they are what they are.

One thing I didn't compare to the card was lift. I'll do that tomorrow.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/29/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1731 on: June 05, 2011, 11:58:41 AM »
Another shop day away. I tried to get out during the week, but things...

Got some spring cleaning and organizing done which helps in an indirect way. Then was ready to work after pulling some weeds. As I neared the end of that task, i noticed a wet spot, standing water in the front yard! Hmmm, maybe that explains the higher water bill this month... that I'd been trying to ignore. I shut off all the water in the house, then went out to the meter and sho nuff, it was spinning.   :( 

So I had to spend several hours on a Saturday getting a digger lined up for Monday. They sent out the locators and they did their job. So hopefully We'll get back on line by Monday PM. In the meantime, its out to the meter to turn it on and off as need arises.

So, we decided to tackle the brake bleeding. Took longer than I remembered, but fluid pumped all the way to the end of the line. No lever pressure yet, but all leaks resolved. There may be some air trapped in the non-CB hose routing I have. Down to one caliper, out of the bleeder valve over the fender and into caliper #2. Looks cool I think. So we may need to disconnect a line to get the air out somewhere, or maybe we'll be real lucky and it will firm up on its own.


Getting ready to install the cam cover, I noticed some deep scratches. Les Barker made the cover for me 12 years ago. He polished it for me, but told me it wasn't his thing. It looked good when I got it, but now I see some scratches. So I started with 220, the 400, then 600 wet or dry. (pictures)



Had several places like that. Sanding done, working on the polish wheel now.

If I stall long enough, I'll get the Ti rocker nuts I ordered from Rob (Voxonda). They'll be easier to install with the cover off.   ;)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 12:05:55 PM by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline voxonda

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1732 on: June 05, 2011, 12:28:39 PM »
Hey Ron,

They are shipped last Friday! Hoping it'll get there in just a few days. Let me know when they've arrived, please.

Bikes looking great.

Cheers, Rob

PS. Better sent them Yoshi pistons my way.
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1733 on: June 05, 2011, 12:30:00 PM »
Hey Ron,

They are shipped last Friday! Hoping it'll get there in just a few days. Let me know when they've arrived, please.

Bikes looking great.

Cheers, Rob

PS. Better sent them Yoshi pistons my way.

Thanks for the nuts, will do!

Your way? No Way!   ;)
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Ecosse

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1734 on: June 05, 2011, 01:15:34 PM »
sorry to learn of your water woes, ron.

but your workmanship on the covers looks pretty good from where i sit!

onward and upward... so to speak.
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1735 on: June 05, 2011, 01:32:40 PM »


Thanks for the nuts, will do!

Your way? No Way!   ;)
[/quote]

Somehow I knew you were going to say that.......................Just kiddin'.
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1736 on: June 05, 2011, 02:35:33 PM »


Thanks for the nuts, will do!

Your way? No Way!   ;)

Somehow I knew you were going to say that.......................Just kiddin'.
[/quote]
I knew you were just kidding. You've already got enough trick toys.  :D
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 05/23/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1737 on: June 05, 2011, 04:53:43 PM »


I kinda hate you 'cause you have your valve cover off with your engine in (and all the other niceties of the frame kit).  Maybe I can hate myself some day ;)

Excellent build thread.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 04:55:20 PM by GammaFlat »
K6
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1738 on: June 06, 2011, 01:29:43 PM »
GF: Thanks. My "kit" is an original APE frame kit, installed in the 70s. No longer available. Useful many times while i was racing, to experiment with cams. Then as a street bike, to fix oil leaks, replaced a twisted cam, general farting around.

It was simply remove the prescribed length of tube, and the triangle brace, and replace with tubes only. No allowance to replace the triangle of angle iron. Install required a hacksaw, drill,  and $0.  The kit was $25 IIRC, in 1970 dollars of course.  I still have an extra APE kit, never installed. I'll keep it for posterity.

For this iteration, I had additional bracing made, though its mostly show as I never felt the need, and I rode it a lot back in those days.

The Gordon kit is far more robust. Jay at APE concurred. The CycleX and Carpy kits are more substantial than the APE kit was, but less than the Gordon kit.

I bot a Gordon kit from a forum member, I'll use it on FreeBird, the cafe racer.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1739 on: June 10, 2011, 10:52:00 AM »
Hey Ron,

They are shipped last Friday! Hoping it'll get there in just a few days. Let me know when they've arrived, please.

Bikes looking great.

Cheers, Rob

PS. Better sent them Yoshi pistons my way.
Hi Rob:
Got the nuts today, install Sunday, thanks!
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/05/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1740 on: June 12, 2011, 09:09:46 PM »
Pushing onward. Reassembled the spare shocks. I thought these were Progressive 12 series. Discussions in other threads led me to revisit them. They are S&W/Monroe "Street Strokers". Successors to S&W, precursers to Progressive. Gas Charged, dual springs, seem to be in real good shape after 15 years of use and 15 years of sitting. Paint on the bodies, powder coat on the springs, black chrome on the rubber/plastic parts. I'll use them for real trips. Use the chrome ones for photo ops.
http://www.dadsvintageads.com/catalog.php/dadsvintageads/pd1908475

So with them off the workbench, we went back to bleeding the brakes. Left it sit for a week and there was virtually no fluid left in the MC, so it must have run into the lines, with air coming out. Still with much time spent on pumping we're not getting any firming up. Fluid is coming out #2 caliper, so we know the lines are full. But air trapped somewhere. Probably where the connecting line arcs over the fender.

Thinking of getting a MityVAc rather than removing any lines or distubing fittings.
Moved on to the stator cover prep work. Some elect line repair, remove shrouding, replace with shrink wrap. In case someone is fretting over a project that's taking too long, this one's going on 13 years now. The covers were polished in Aug 2000.  :-[

Pulled the allen screw set I bot from Jim Spillane, also in 2000. Nicely done back then, and he's still doing it, putting kits together. Check the FAQs for "where to buy parts".

http://www.metrocast.net/~spillane/index_004.htm
Got the Ti tappet Adjuster nuts from Rob at Voxonda and reset the valves, removing the OEM nuts and installing these. The practice never hurts.

Check out his website for cool parts.
I spent at least an hours at the polish wheel on the rocker cover. I just don't have the knack, but I'll spend a little more time with it, and call it OK soon.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 09:30:31 PM by MCRider »
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Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1741 on: June 12, 2011, 09:30:28 PM »
this is ridiculous...

Offline Panotaker

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1742 on: June 13, 2011, 05:02:58 AM »
You might want to pick up one of those pistol type vacuum brake bleeder pumps. I have an old 88 Goldwing that had air in the brake lines. I spent a couple of days bleeding the brakes the old fashion way with no luck. I thought the master cylinder was shot. I finally bought one of those vacuum brake bleeding guns and had the air sucked out and the brakes working in about 5 minute.

Offline bikebitzofvt

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1743 on: June 13, 2011, 05:40:13 AM »
As always it's a pleasure to follow your build.  I don't feel so bad about my CB - I've only been obtaining parts for 2 1/2 years now!

I'd recommend removing the right hand caliper and holding it up along the left fork leg to get the air out of the brake line where it loops over the wheel.  I think you're right on the money as to where the air is trapped.  Even a mity vac probably won't be able to pull the air that far.  Autozone (if there's one in your area) has a nicely priced plastic body MityVac brake bleeding kit complete with cup & bleeder cap fittings...  I have an alloy bodied one that still sucks 20+ yrs later :) 



 
"If it ain't broke you aren't riding it hard enough!"

77 CB750K7, 77 KZ1000B

Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1744 on: June 13, 2011, 06:19:13 AM »
Thanks Pano and Bikebitz.  Duh I could've had a V8! Sure i can remove the rt side caliper without disconnecting the brake lines. That could really help. Also Ithink I'll get the MityVac anyway as i need to bleed my FJR and others. Might as well step up.

As to the time Pano: I had a flurry of activity for about 8 months in 2000. Bot a lot of parts, had the machine work done on the engine top end, most of the polishing. Then I just boxed it up and put it on the shelf. Real world issues interfered. There it sat for 8 years!

Then in 2008 my riding buddy Bruce said he would come over on Sunday mornings to help me resurrect the project. I think he had ulterior motive, excuse to get out of the house.  ;D  Nevertheless, we've barely missed a Sunday morning since.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline mrosso

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1745 on: June 13, 2011, 03:24:48 PM »
Thanks for the step-by-step on the cam timing. Much appreciated!

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1746 on: June 13, 2011, 04:11:55 PM »
Thanks for the step-by-step on the cam timing. Much appreciated!
Sure, though I can see where there are lots of holes in the narrative. Ping me if you need help.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Tintop

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1747 on: June 13, 2011, 05:32:01 PM »
+1 on removing the right caliper, and holding its bleed nipple higher than the cross over, to get the air out.

Those Ti nuts look great, guess I better PM Voxonda and get on the 2ND list.

I'm still debating what to do with the K3's paint.  Our exchange about old school paint jobs got me rethinking what I was going to do.  That was 2 months ago I think.  Had started to bother me that I wasn't making any progress, then I read your post about starting this (re)build in 2000.  Think I'll relaxe. ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
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77 CB550 Cafe build
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1748 on: June 13, 2011, 07:05:27 PM »
this is ridiculous...
I notice by your profile you're 26 years old. You weren't even born when I bought this bike. Let me tell you a little story.

When I was 26, I was riding this same motorcycle at breakneck speeds taking terrible risks. I put nearly 100,000 miles on it, roadraced it, crashed it 13 times, some on the track, some off. Twice were insurance company totals. Met my wife of 26 years on a blind date to the Covered Bridge Festival, we spent 13 hours on and off the bike, the day got better and better as it went on.  I've had every bolt and nut off of it more than once, the only thing original at this point is the frame and the crankcases.

Well, you get the idea? So I agree and admit, this is truly ridiculous.   ;D  An old man's toy.  Ain't life grand?
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

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Re: Phaedrus II: CB750 "Super Standard" - Update 06/12/11- w/ new pics
« Reply #1749 on: June 13, 2011, 07:12:59 PM »
pano and BikeBitz: Got the MityVac from Autozone, though it say "OEM" on the package label. It says Miteyvac on the gauge and body of the unit. Must be a licensing thing. $29.95.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."