Author Topic: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!  (Read 8984 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ichiban 4

  • "Ichi"
  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 741
  • A "Boomer" still going strong.
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2008, 04:45:38 PM »
The world loves irony.  Flown in yesterday was a guy who, according to his family, always wears his helmets, (couple diff. kinds) always makes his kids wear theirs, etc... but one of the rare times he took a spin 'round the block without, wham, bam, an SUV hits him, prob 1/8 of his cranium's caved in, his eyes are bugged out, big stent in his head and he's very _very_ out of commission for at least a little while.  (i.e. I'm not a doctor, but he looked bad.) 

It's hard to look at this stuff and say "People should have the freedom to make this a possibility."

I did my job, took him to his procedure, held his hand (who knows, he might have noticed, somehow) and took him back to his room in the ICU... the whole time realizing that that sight (and more) make me an "all the gear, all the time" advocate.

Thanks for that eye-opening post Kitsune.  I think if more could see what really happens when someone's skull is caved-in like that..they would have no reservations about wearing helmets.

It only takes one or two examples of actually seeing that..and also realizing that had they been wearing a helmet..it probably wouldn't be an issue..to start seriously questioning the "freedom to choose" argument.

I think that's the reasoning behind most of the mandatory helmet laws..although none of us apparently..likes to think that we have to be told to do something.

This whole issue of risks and protection reminds me of the discussions about war, casualties, etc. seen on other threads here..which I still contend are quite different when seen up close and personal versus in the abstract or in conjecture.

I hesitantly am willing to forego my personal freedom to NOT wear a helmet..to reduce the occurrences of such things as you described.. from happening to me or others.

Ichi
Al Summers

Present: '77 550K
Past: '73 CB450(twin), '72 CB175, '68 CB350, '58 Ariel Square 4 (1000cc), '58 Matchless Typhoon (650cc single), Whizzer Motorbikes '48 -'55 (Pacemaker & Sportsman)..Vespa, Lambretta scooters..etc.

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,360
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2008, 05:34:59 PM »
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline DammitDan

  • Prodigal Son
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,470
  • It lives!
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2008, 12:39:13 AM »
Is that from the BMW airbag test video, Bobby?
CB750K4

Offline my78k

  • I am Meat-O of the Hungry Horses MC
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,839
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2008, 12:41:46 AM »
If it is....I think it failed!!

Dennis

Offline DammitDan

  • Prodigal Son
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,470
  • It lives!
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2008, 12:52:18 AM »
To quote Carlin:

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

As with the logic of "seatbelts save lives" as a rule of the road (remembering that driving is a privilege, not a right), the logic of required helmet laws should follow in suit.  Helmets reduce the number of head trauma fatalities in motorcycle accidents, and that is a fact.

You don't hear people petitioning for the repeal of seatbelt laws anymore, and with the sharp increase in riders due to recent gas price spikes, it shouldn't be a question of whether or not people should WANT to wear helmets, but rather that they NEED to wear helmets.
CB750K4

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2008, 01:36:17 AM »
As long as what someone else chooses to do with their body doesn't hurt me or other uninvolved people, then they should be free to do it;  including not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle.  Mandating self-preservation is a very slippery slope.  Where does it end?  It's a fact that riding a motorcycle is much more dangerous for the operator than driving a car, so should motorcycles be outlawed?  Well, allowing people to drive themselves around in cars is way more dangerous than if everybody just took the bus, so let's get rid of cars, too. 

I'm not saying that's necessarily where helmet laws are going to lead us to, but helmet use is a personal choice (regardless of what laws may exist mandating their use), meaning that someone's choice to wear or not wear one only affects themselves and those emotionally close to them. 

Sure, you could go down the road of saying that riders who are injured because of not wearing a helmet cause everyone to pay higher insurance rates, and it's a burden on the health care system, but then you're trading one slippery slope for another one.  People smoking, drinking and eating #$%*ty food is the cause of a much, much greater burden on health care and insurance than head injuries due to lack of helmets could ever even get close to touching. 

Maybe motorcyclists in states with helmet laws should start riding around with signs that say "MY BODY.  MY CHOICE"

I choose to wear a helmet when riding my motorcycles, but it doesn't affect me in the least if somebody else chooses not to, and it's not my right (or anybody else's) to try to force them to.

Offline BobbyR

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,360
  • Proud Owner of the Babe Thread & Dirty Old Man
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2008, 09:04:13 AM »
Is that from the BMW airbag test video, Bobby?
I am not sure. It just looks like a crash test. Pretty gruesome I think.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline DammitDan

  • Prodigal Son
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,470
  • It lives!
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2008, 10:29:30 AM »
I'm not saying that's necessarily where helmet laws are going to lead us to, but helmet use is a personal choice (regardless of what laws may exist mandating their use), meaning that someone's choice to wear or not wear one only affects themselves and those emotionally close to them. 

If helmet use is a personal choice, then why are seatbelts in cars not considered to be a personal choice as well?
CB750K4

Offline Gordon

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,114
  • 750K1, 550K2
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2008, 02:52:16 PM »

If helmet use is a personal choice, then why are seatbelts in cars not considered to be a personal choice as well?


Because a seatbelt holds the driver in the driver's seat, behind the wheel and within reach of the brake pedal, in the event that the car strikes or is struck by something.  As for adult passengers, it should be their choice. 

Offline mikedialect

  • cbjunky
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
    • Mike's Metric Vintage Honda
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2008, 08:26:03 PM »
bottom line is that you can't impose common sense to a large number of human beings. Punishing people for making bad choices that only affect them & their family is no governments right. It is also no one else's right. If we remove personal decisions one by one... what will be left?
SOHC4 Member#44153  
www.mikesmetric.com | www.mikedialect.com

Offline DammitDan

  • Prodigal Son
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,470
  • It lives!
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2008, 01:20:27 AM »
If we remove personal decisions one by one... what will be left?

More people alive to make personal decisions?  ;D
CB750K4

Offline Frankenkit

  • Industrial Strength
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,525
  • 2012 CBR250R, 72 CL350, Member #4600
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2008, 09:13:56 AM »
...but we've already determined that riding/driving is a privilege, not a right (hence the DOT inspections, mandatory skills tests, revocation of license, etc)... so protection would fall under the same category as seat belts, vehicle inspections for safety, etc, theoretically, as it relates directly to the privilege of riding.

However, I completely support anyone's personal freedom to walk down the sidewalk without any kind of protection at all!
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
2012 CBR250R "Black Betty"
1980 CB650c- (sold) Delilah
1973 CL350- Lola?
Sweet, bubbly, Buddha - Say it ain't so!!!
Stuff for sale

Offline Spikeybike

  • when planting C4 at your enemy's base make sure you don't use a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,265
  • member #1150
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2008, 02:01:08 PM »
However, I completely support anyone's personal freedom to walk down the sidewalk without any kind of protection at all!

like clothes?  ;D

Offline dummkauf

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 169
  • Just got it
    • The Project website
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2008, 02:47:32 PM »
I've only ridden a motorcycle once without a helmet, made a quick trip up to Home Depot to pick up something small, and I didn't like it.  The wind blowing across my ears kinda annoyed me since I'm not used to it with my helmet on, as well as the 2-3 bugs that squished on my face didn't help the cause either.  Aside from the safety aspect of my helmet the fact that it doubles as a bug/rock deflector is a huge plus in my book. 

However I still do not believe that the government needs to step in...the decision what gear to wear, or not wear, shoud be left to the rider.(I'm also against the seatbelt laws even though I never drive my car without it buckled)

Offline rugger81

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 132
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2008, 05:31:37 PM »
Whenever I ask various riders why they don't wear a helmet, the reason I almost always get is  "Would you still want to be alive if you needed a helmet to save you?"  I don't get that reasoning too much since there are many situations where the helmet doesn't so much protect you from brain injury as much as it protects you from breaking your nose, jaw, whatever or from getting road rash on your face.

Regardless, I think people should have a choice in the matter, but it doesn't affect me because I always wear a helmet/gear anyways.  Whenever I look down while on my motorcycle and see the ground running past me, I just can't help but think what it would be like to have my face sliding against that at 60 miles an hour.
'77 CB750K - Rebuild Project Page
'15 Moto Guzzi Griso

Offline Uncle Ernie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,613
Re: Bikers...Helmets..Latest Statistics..Weigh-in now!
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »
Speaking of irony;
From the 6 o:clock news,  "...was killed when a semi backed over him before leaving the parking lot.  He was pronounced dead on arrival.  He was (or was not, depending on the state) wearing a helmet"

So what?

I started wearing a helmet when the state of California said I had to. 

If the Nanny State wants to protect everyione from their own stupidity, they should make it harder to get a drivers license.
They should actually go to the bother of prosecuting drunk drivers (intead of acting like it's their RIGHT to drive drunk repeatedly)
Every vehicle should be started AFTER breathing into a little machine.

Every ignition should block cellphone signals.

But, first and foremost, every male should automatically have a reversable vasectomy when they're 8 years old and should have to apply for the right to impregnate girls / women.  21 is a little soon, but it seems many people feel like it's a right to procreate indiscriminately.

Is this a generational thing that this helmet issue keeps coming up?

BTW, the freeway is pretty much the safest place to ride.  If you're going to hear a helmet, "around the block" is the most important place to wear one.
Dude- your 8 layers are showing!