Author Topic: 74 550-Ninja Hybreed-Coming Out Pics (Read 46995 times)

moham · « **on:** October 06, 2008, 06:00:07 PM »

Well, I found this bike on CL...titled, engine apart, no seat, after market exhaust (which I forgot to put in the truck after we loaded the bike), new (old) tires, front caliper NOT seized, bad paint, but otherwise mostly there...I gave 2 bills for it but I have plans. Since I finished the 750 k8 (which wasn't really broke) I decided I needed a project to develop further skills. I have been reading about the 550-650-750 hybrid that paulages put together and that has my interest piqued. I've kinda been wondering if it would be cool to put together a great motor and attach to an otherwise ho-hum exterior...kinda of a rat-rod moto thing...anyway, here are the pics...

dustyc · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2008, 06:03:50 PM »

Quote from: moham on October 06, 2008, 06:00:07 PM

wondering if it would be cool to put together a great motor and attach to an otherwise ho-hum exterior...kinda of a rat-rod moto thing...

That'd be a sleeper, my personal favorite because of the SH!T factor when you smoke someone that thinks it's just a POS.

snipcod · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2008, 08:12:36 PM »

Quote from: dustyc on October 06, 2008, 06:03:50 PM

Quote from: moham on October 06, 2008, 06:00:07 PM
wondering if it would be cool to put together a great motor and attach to an otherwise ho-hum exterior...kinda of a rat-rod moto thing...

That'd be a sleeper, my personal favorite because of the SH!T factor when you smoke someone that thinks it's just a POS.

That thread is going to single handly break my wallet. I would have been fine with a reg rebuild but now not so much

Good luck with your build, seems like a few of us are about to take on this project

moham · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2008, 06:53:32 PM »

to answer my own question:

550-650-750 hybrid is out...it was all I could do just to read the original plus associated threads on that and I'm not long enough on dough or skill for that kind of test. So I will keep it simple and (hopefully) somewhat on the cheaper side:

-650 cam
-head ported (not sure by who, I've read all about MRieck's work but he seems like he might be rather busy at the moment...anyone have a contact in twin cities for this type of machine work? I have seen the M3 site but they seem a bit high...?)
-valves/valve springs
-new exhaust (4-1 judging from all the info out there...)
-possible modified air intake (not sure on this, only because the stock airbox wasn't included, and I know there are endless pods/no pods discussions on this board)
-have not decided on front end swap...
-hondaman ignition

anyhow, this list is me thinking out loud and keeping a record. I've read a bunch of threads on these mods, but if anybody has any suggestions, input or whatever, feel free....

Hush · « **Reply #4 on:** October 10, 2008, 12:35:52 AM »

Hmmmmm "SLEEPER" (said in Homer type voice as he dreams of dough-nuts).
Evil.....I like it, when much much younger a mate and I dropped a straight six into a standard old four cylinder car, we dragged everything in town....it was damn frightening but heaps of fun.
Ruined 3 good diff heads in the process...ha ha....

HMMMM Sleeper............

moham · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2008, 12:12:39 PM »

Trying to find a local "head" shop now to assess the state of the head, cylinders and trying to establish the best way to go about getting it cleaned up. Found a couple sources for gasket sets but haven't purchased anything yet until I know what I want to do. I'm also poring over the voluminous Shop Manual with regards to assembly etc. Now, if I could just get out of work....

youngerthanmybike · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2008, 03:42:53 PM »

Believe me, while getting out of work is nice for a few days.... it gets old after more than 3 or 4. The company I work for has been pretty slow lately, so they haven't had much work for me. While I do have more time to work on my bike, I don't have much of a way to pay for it....

moham · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2008, 06:00:42 PM »

Yeah, that's why I'm kinda planning on going one piece at a time, to make it a little less noticeable on the checkbook. But, really, who am I kidding, I have never been at a loss for an excuse to spend money on my hobbies...

moham · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2008, 09:11:05 PM »

Well, today has been the first chance in a few weeks to get after anything. Took a few shots and got going on the carbs. It seems like the cam shaft, etc are in good shape. Will swap it out anyway, hopefully with a relatively inexpensive 650. Two of the cylinders are in rough shape rust-wise, but I don't see any real gouges or pitting. The other two seem pretty good, will still take everything to a shop this week to see what a real opinion says. Now I just need to decide on, not whether to bore, but, I guess, how much. I guess it all depends on me making a decision...

moham · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2008, 09:21:42 PM »

And speaking of carbs...The leaf spring that "holds" the main jet in should, conceivably, bring the main jet out with it, when removed? I'm assuming the only reason these did not easily come out is sludge factor. Soaking in SG tonight and will check in the morning. Unless, of course, I've missed something...

moham · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2008, 03:04:37 PM »

Well, apparently SG does or (did in this case anyway) react (or seem to react) with the metal finish of the carb bodies. I soaked overnight (too long) in full strength (too strong) and now have begun to try and restore some semblance of the original finish. I'm kinda bummed about this as I thought I knew what I was doing...it certainly cleared out the gunk, tho, and the main jets and valve seats came out easily. One step forward, two steps back. Kinda like my golf game...

moham · « **Reply #11 on:** October 15, 2008, 09:37:58 PM »

A green scrubbie and a little time on the polishing wheel took care of the damage done by the SG. Two carbs down, two to go. Got the gaskets, slows and mains coming from Discount...Still need to find somebody to check the cylinders, head...

DollarBill · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2008, 07:00:00 AM »

I did the same thing with the SG...turned the carbs dark grey...almost black. I also thought I rinsed them off well enough but I noticed after they dried there was a white powdery deposit left on them. It came off but still time consuming.

Soos · « **Reply #13 on:** October 17, 2008, 09:17:02 PM »

Well, as I mentioned earlier in one of you other threads, here are a few photos of the GPZ600 pistons for your decision as to whether or not you want to run them.

Take note of the side view...nearly perfect deck height by eye.
Could be, will measure later.
As well the top of the piston.

These would either keep your compression in the neighborhood of stock, or perhaps a tad lower?

I have no pipette to test the volume of the valve relief areas.

l8r

moham · « **Reply #14 on:** October 18, 2008, 09:09:56 AM »

Judging from the side view, I think it's encouraging that the skirt material is less on the bigger pistons, as this was one of the areas that material needed to be removed from the 750 pistons in that Gentleman's article. The deck height looks right on, and though the oil rings are in the same spot, would the placement of the 1 & 2 rings affect anything?

Soos · « **Reply #15 on:** October 18, 2008, 09:16:55 AM »

Not really sure on how the upper 2 rings placement could/would affect the piston.

l8r

moham · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »

Was looking for 650 camshaft, found a whole topend instead. Ebay for $20+$20 s/h. If nothing else, I think $40 is decent for the cam by itself, delivered and all. Re-assembling clean carbs tonight. I seem to be slowly accumulating parts...this is fun.

moham · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:23:32 PM »

Got the 650 head today (that was fast, what the...!?!), so here are some shots. Looks good to me, at least as far as the camshaft is concerned. No alarming signs of wear or damage, just lots and lots of dirty oil. The case of the motor looks crap but inside seems ok, not like it was sitting at the bottom of a lake or anything. Not bad for $20...Also, carbs are cleaned and ready to receive new rubber, jets. Got word from one head shop today that they're "not doing that kind of work right now" when I queried about boring the cylinders for the 60mm pistons, but gave me a number of some folks that apparently do. Mighty decent of them.

moham · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2008, 05:49:37 AM »

Soos, how are the pistons coming? I be excited to see if they are going to work...

XN · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:52:36 PM »

Let me know what you find for a local place. Last time I had anything machined I went to Kath auto on Rice street. But the guy there was an idiot, but being a former automotive machinist I'm kinda picky.

FYI I'm also in St. Paul...

Sporkfly · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2008, 06:37:07 AM »

Hey Moham, would you mind posting a picture of the 550 vs 650 tach drive gear? The 650 cam in the 550 has been discussed, but that's one picture I haven't seen with all the swaps going on. I'm curious to see the difference for curiosity's sake.

Also, how is your bottom end? I noticed those conn. rods aren't the prettiest sight in the world.

Good luck with the bike

Edit: By my eye, the GPZ piston looks every so slightly shorter, but I'll definitely wait to see your results.

Edit #2: Also, what about the pin placement? Same distance from the top of the piston? Same pin size?

moham · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2008, 07:46:58 AM »

I have to look through the baggie o' parts with the 650 head to see if the tach gear is there...can look later tonight.

The bottom end: The rods are a bit rough and this has me a little concerned. I only have the top end with me as I keep my bikes down in Iowa a couple hours away, so I haven't been able to go through it yet. I figure that will be the next step after getting the top half squared away. I've also looked at a ton of pics for comparison on this and seen some similarly rough-looking bottoms (hehe)...time, observation and evaluation will tell.

The gpz pistons could be a smidge shorter by sight but they are also dished on top with considerable valve relief area, so it remains to be seen what the final result is...waiting to get them in hand to be able to cc the combustion chamber and figure out compression ratio.

As far as pin height, I don't know but I asked soos about pin size and he affirmed they are identical.

Soos · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2008, 08:58:20 AM »

Quote from: moham on October 23, 2008, 05:49:37 AM

Soos, how are the pistons coming? I be excited to see if they are going to work...

I've checked the deck height so far, and it's identical (within 0.005) pretty much to the 550 pistons I have.

I'm waiting on a bit of free machine time to get those valve reliefs cut though...

I just noticed you have a 650 cam?
I will cut them a tad deeper to compensate for the added lift.

l8r

Soos · « **Reply #23 on:** October 24, 2008, 09:00:04 AM »

And yes the pin diameter is 15mm like the 550's, 650's and 750's are.

l8r

moham · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2008, 09:03:58 AM »

Quote from: Soos on October 24, 2008, 08:58:20 AM

Quote from: moham on October 23, 2008, 05:49:37 AM
Soos, how are the pistons coming? I be excited to see if they are going to work...

I've checked the deck height so far, and it's identical (within 0.005) pretty much to the 550 pistons I have.

I'm waiting on a bit of free machine time to get those valve reliefs cut though...

I just noticed you have a 650 cam?
I will cut them a tad deeper to compensate for the added lift.

l8r

yeah, got the cam and the head to go with it. At this point, I'm debating whether or not to just use the 650 head in order to forgo the cost of porting the 550 head...any thoughts on this?

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Author Topic: 74 550-Ninja Hybreed-Coming Out Pics (Read 46995 times)